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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mortified at BIL and reaction to request for loan

240 replies

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 00:31

I have name changed for this.
I was not sure where to put this thread but hoping this is the right section

I want to give a bit of background to avoid drip feeding so bear with me. This outpouring is lonnnnnnnnnng!

DP and I dont have a lot of spare money - less so these days like alot of people but we are lucky to have got by to date with no credit cards, no loans and no debts ( apart from mortgage).. We lead a relatively frugal life and are v careful with money - dont really go out alot and our last family holiday was 4 years ago (was able to combine it with a work related trip to keep flight costs down). I buy most of our clothes from charity shops / car boot sales. We do however make sure DD gets things like swimming classes, membership of a running club.

we have one DD and pg with number 2.

I dont come from a well off background but my family is close and all help each other out as much as possible, whenever we can. I struggle with asking for any kind of help from people, including my family and have never owed anyone any money. Personally i find it really hard but also know i have been very lucky not to be in that position until now.

DP's family is somewhat different and alot more money focused. He is the youngest son with 2 older brothers, very successful in the financial sector in the city. They lead very different lifestyles to us and refer to us as the paupers and black sheep of the family. I have never had a v good relationship with eldest BIL, just very different people with different views and values. He once told me that i "should go home to the other f**king gypos". His words not mine. I am Irish.

He however is always offering to help us out and has repeatedly told DP that if there is ever anything he can do help out -including with money - to just ask, he is there for him and nothing would be too much. He always tells us how many millions he has in bank, how much he makes a month etc etc. He has laughed at our flat -saying that its overall value wouldnt even cover the value of his broom cupboard.
We never ever have asked for anything ( and even paid his share of MIL's funeral a few years ago when he refused to contribute.)

We both work FT earning just less than average salary each and live in a small flat in a building with other home buyers and some housing association tenants.

2 weeks ago we were presented with an unexpected bill for 25 k each for compulsory work in our area on subsidence - a bolt out of the blue and a total shock. We do not have those kinds of savings and my family in no way has access to that kind of money.

DP's first thought was to ask BIL to help out and I refused, wanting to explore all other options first. Have spoken to council about a repayment plan and tried to look at how to balance our books and fit in the repayments over the 2 years we have been given as well as cope with my mat leave. DP finally persuaded me that he would ask BIL for a LOAN for 1/3 amount which we would repay with interest- not to be given it as a handout or to keep.

We spent ages coming up with an email, basically explaining the situation and stating that we would really appreciate the loan, would repay it as soon as we could, how hard we both found it to ask but of course, if it wasnt possible it was not a problem and we would go back to the bank. i honestly felt sick writing it and v v embarassed at sending it.

I was dreading his reply but didnt expect what we got.

He didnt get back for a week, fair enough. When he did, he told us that he has been trying to find ways to get us out of paying at all, speaking to the council and pretending to be our debt adviser. he told them we are in massive debt and will not be paying.
he says he wont give us a loan as he thinks this would be propping up our lifestyle, that this will be a valuable life lesson and that he thinks we should be supporting the banks through a loan from them. He also said that he found it strange that we would not be able to find that amount as it is such a small amount. He also sad he was angry that we would approach him in the first place and it wasnt his fault that I came from "tinkers and layabout" stock. He said he was embarassed that his own brother would have to stoop so low as to ask for a handout. We didnt.

we have since found out that BIL shared our email with other family members in a - "jeez - what are they like" and "cant quite believe I have a brother so low on the social rung"

i feel very hurt and embarassed. Not at that he isnt going to give us a loan but at what he said. DP is shocked that when he finally had to ask for something, this is what has happened. I am also angry that even when he knew how hard we found it to go cap in hand for a loan, he shared this and is basically making a laugh of us behind our backs.

I suppose i am not really asking for advice - we will get through it somehow but wanted somewhere to vent.

well done for making it to the end... Smile

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 03/04/2014 07:11

Oh and I could suggest a change to my last line:

"I have however decided to take your wise advice and take control of my financial affairs, as one of my problems is that from time to time I have allowed freeloaders to take advantage of me and not pay me back. One piece of scum even got me to pay his share for his mother's funeral! So, can you pay me back that money you owe me for Mum's funeral please Bruv? Thanks."

Floppityflop · 03/04/2014 07:23

I am assuming this is a bill from the freeholder and the freeholder is a local authority. If you think the bill is excessive there are ways of appealing but that takes time. The local authority should offer you a repayment plan and if you can't pay they MAY take a second charge on your flat. See what your options are. In your situation I would probably think about extending the mortgage if I had enough equity but if that will leave you in difficulty you may wish to cash in all ISAs first. I know you lose the tax benefit but no point having savings if you have debts you can't pay. If you can pay then maybe the mortgage is an option.

I must say, your BIL is an a**e!

I have been in a similar situation although the bill was only £6,500. I extended my mortgage, but that was a while ago when borrowing was easier. This is, I'm afraid, the risk that comes with a leasehold flat.

Woodenheart · 03/04/2014 07:23

BalloonSlayer fab email, Perfectl & to the point.

Floppityflop · 03/04/2014 07:32

Just read upthread that you mentioned factoring - are you on Scotland? If so, then I'm not sure what the position is wrt freehold leasehold. (But there may be some appeal right for major works bills, as in England.)

sarahquilt · 03/04/2014 07:34

Charming. The man's a xenophobe - what do you expect from him? Also, he's enjoying wielding power over you - offering and then withdrawing help is classic manipulative behaviour. Don't contact him again.

wigglylines · 03/04/2014 07:41

I agree you should report him to the police.

paxtecum · 03/04/2014 07:43

I know someone in the City like your BIL.
For all the money that he earns and the massive bonuses, he wouldn't have 25k sitting in the bank because he spends (wastes) it all!

He's an arsehole too!

I hope you get it all sorted.

nkf · 03/04/2014 07:45

To hell with him. He's a horrible man. I hope you can sort something out with the finances.

Kakaka · 03/04/2014 07:46

He sounds like a right knob OP.

I think many of us would be financially floored by an unexpected bill of this size. You sound like a lovely family. I hope there is some insurance cover for this so you don't have to pay.

I've known people in Scotland have this kind of issue with tenement flats but they have always had quite a lot of notice of the big bills. Also, it can often take a lot longer to sort out than people expect. One friend took out a loan for her share and paid interest, only for the work to be held up by other people not paying on time. It took so long she could have saved up in the meantime. So it may be worth investigating what happens if you don't pay, or don't pay on time.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 03/04/2014 07:50

Jesus, that's why rich people keep hold of their money. Well, some. Do send that letter though. Otherwise he'll think he chastised you and you clearly have been told and accepted it.

Chloerose75 · 03/04/2014 07:53

Bloody hell he sounds an absolute arse. I am also shocked you would have to pay such a huge amount out of no where but his approach of phoning up and lying is obviously not the way to go. I hope you can get it sorted and can't believe he would broadcast it and jeer behind your backs! He has shown himself up by doing that, not you.

Sharaluck · 03/04/2014 07:55

I am very sorry you had to go through this. Do not speak to him again.

And I cannot believe the £25000 bill, how many people could manage to pay that!?

I wish you all the best for sorting out the bill situation Flowers

worriedsick100 · 03/04/2014 07:59

Slightly off point, Why is there a subsidence claim? If you are in small block etc ( you say you live in a flat) why would this not be covered by building insurance (not contents). Apologies if I have missed the explanation for this further up the post - if so can someone please point me in this direction?

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 03/04/2014 08:14

What a vile man, I am Shock at his behaviour.

As others have said, there is no way that the aunt copied you guys in accidentally. She wanted you to know that she's on your side.

I would certainly be querying this bill more. It sounds like due process may not have been followed, if that is the case then you may not have to pay a penny.

LordEmsworth · 03/04/2014 08:15

Your BIL is a complete shit, and I think it's actually quite lucky that you won't be indebted to him... If he thinks it's ok to talk to you like this now, I can't even imagine how he'd be if you owed him money.

Could you and the other leaseholders join together to seek joint legal advice from a solicitor with experience in this area? I suspect that there's no "way out", but if you don't have the money then you just don't - they can't take something that's not there.

Article about unexpected costs like this one
Homeowners pay to clear contaminated land

NearTheWindymill · 03/04/2014 08:15

He's a vile man but when friends of ours have had to have subsidence related work on their properties it has been covered by buildings insurance. He was wrong to say you were in debt and wouldn't be paying but right to explore alternative avenues. I don't think you should have to take out a loan for this to be honest.

Regarding your MILs funeral what I don't understand is if they are a well off family there would presumably have been some assets. Why therefore was the funeral not paid from the estate? What happened to her estate, did you not get your share or what happened to the money? You write the post as though your DH's part of the family is far from penniless.

cozietoesie · 03/04/2014 08:24

He's a worthless pig. I'd say more but I feel too angry for you.

Oh - and Yes to the matter of your MIL's estate. Unless she was completely penniless - ie devoid of a single asset - then anything she had (or the value thereof) should have gone in the first instance to defraying her debts - of which the funeral is one. I wouldn't, however, put it past your BIL to pocket any of that (ie any jewellery she had) on the basis that 'if they want to pay for the funeral, let 'em'.

I'm getting angry again so I'd better stop.

LoisPuddingLane · 03/04/2014 08:36

Cunt. Even more of a cunt for telling the council you have "massive debts". Where the fuck does he get off? Cunt isn't big enough a word for him so...C. U. N. T.

weeredcar · 03/04/2014 08:47

He sounds like an utter twat......and that's putting it lightly.

Do you have a local councillor you can speak to - I've heard that some councils put aside money for things like this - a skyscraper in my town needed work doing to it, and they had billed the residents who owned their flats (most were council owned) for the work.

The councillor we spoke to (about something else) said the owners were able to apply to the council for a grant (otherwise they would have been facing a hefty bill, similar to you if I recall rightly).

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 08:49

Morning folks. I didn't want to not respond to latest posts but about to head into work so can't do lengthy replies. Will get back later to questions asked. DP and I realize we haven't really explored all options without proper legal advice and panicked when we got it, especially with time frame originally given and just accepted what council told us as we are home buyers. We are going to get our heads together tonight with plan of action of who to contact / seek more advice from.
I appreciate your advice. It has honestly really helped us to feel a bit stronger.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 03/04/2014 08:51

That's good to hear. Hope you have a better day. There is some really good advice above both about the bill and the BIL.

DumbleDee · 03/04/2014 08:51

He has done you the biggest favour ever. Undoubtedly the pain and hassle of ever have been indebted to him would outweigh the benefit of him helping you out now. He is a cunt.

I would:

Cut all contact and never ever speak to him again.
Contact the whistleblower hotline at his Company and report him for fraud.
Report him to the FSA.
As another poster said - take him to the SC court for his share of the funeral bill.

You've had great advice about challenging these costs, but I would start with refusing to pay it. Get some legal advice, and look at collaborating with other owners in the same position as you. I think you said that some of the property was owned by Housing Assosciations - well they are usually charities aren't they - doubt they will be paying up without a fight, and also get advice wrt your Insurance (and if you aren't covered find out why), also how long have you been in the property - did you have a survey - if so find out why it wasn't identified as an issue.

Good luck with it all, you sound like a lovely family. x

firesidechat · 03/04/2014 09:24

As someone up thread has already mentioned, couldn't you or the freeholder claim on the buildings insurance. A sudden bill for that amount of money is ridiculous and you can't be the only one who won't be able to pay. We are relatively well off and we couldn't find that sort of money.

catsmother · 03/04/2014 09:34

Proof, if any was ever needed, that money doesn't necessarily buy you class.

The way you outlined the background to your request confirms that you did NOTHING wrong in making it, had considered it very carefully and were most definitely not on the cadge. He was of course at liberty to decline but what he did and the malicious spite he's shown is cuntish behaviour of the highest order. Well .... you never need have anything to do with him ever again - I totally believe you, but what you've described is "unbelievable" to most decent people because it falls so far outside the boundaries of "normal" behavbiour and I agree he sounds as if he has a screw (or several) lose somewhere. He sounds sadistic.

Agree with all others who say you MUST explore the ins and outs of this bill further. The vast majority of households would struggle to come up with this sum in just two years - it's crazy, and people can't get blood out of a stone at the end of the day. It beggars belief that there was no insurance in place to cover this sort of issue, and I can't help wondering if somewhere along the line there's been a monumental cockup and the council are now trying it on. Please take legal advice .... it may well be worth calling a residents' meeting because others must be worried sick too - perhaps you could all contribute to the cost of initial legal advice for example which shouldn't be too astronomic divided by several ? And of course ultimately, even if this cost does have to be paid, the council will find it a lot harder to pressure several households into practically bankrupting themselves if you ALL protest at the terms they're currently offering.

struggling100 · 03/04/2014 09:38

OP, I just wanted to say that your BIL sounds almost sociopathic and vile. What a horrible man.

I second the advice that other people have given of fighting the bill on your own front. It CANNOT be right that you are being asked to pay such a huge amount of money over a short term. Please seek legal advice - if you're near a university with a law school, they may well have a free law clinic that can help you out.

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