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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mortified at BIL and reaction to request for loan

240 replies

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 00:31

I have name changed for this.
I was not sure where to put this thread but hoping this is the right section

I want to give a bit of background to avoid drip feeding so bear with me. This outpouring is lonnnnnnnnnng!

DP and I dont have a lot of spare money - less so these days like alot of people but we are lucky to have got by to date with no credit cards, no loans and no debts ( apart from mortgage).. We lead a relatively frugal life and are v careful with money - dont really go out alot and our last family holiday was 4 years ago (was able to combine it with a work related trip to keep flight costs down). I buy most of our clothes from charity shops / car boot sales. We do however make sure DD gets things like swimming classes, membership of a running club.

we have one DD and pg with number 2.

I dont come from a well off background but my family is close and all help each other out as much as possible, whenever we can. I struggle with asking for any kind of help from people, including my family and have never owed anyone any money. Personally i find it really hard but also know i have been very lucky not to be in that position until now.

DP's family is somewhat different and alot more money focused. He is the youngest son with 2 older brothers, very successful in the financial sector in the city. They lead very different lifestyles to us and refer to us as the paupers and black sheep of the family. I have never had a v good relationship with eldest BIL, just very different people with different views and values. He once told me that i "should go home to the other f**king gypos". His words not mine. I am Irish.

He however is always offering to help us out and has repeatedly told DP that if there is ever anything he can do help out -including with money - to just ask, he is there for him and nothing would be too much. He always tells us how many millions he has in bank, how much he makes a month etc etc. He has laughed at our flat -saying that its overall value wouldnt even cover the value of his broom cupboard.
We never ever have asked for anything ( and even paid his share of MIL's funeral a few years ago when he refused to contribute.)

We both work FT earning just less than average salary each and live in a small flat in a building with other home buyers and some housing association tenants.

2 weeks ago we were presented with an unexpected bill for 25 k each for compulsory work in our area on subsidence - a bolt out of the blue and a total shock. We do not have those kinds of savings and my family in no way has access to that kind of money.

DP's first thought was to ask BIL to help out and I refused, wanting to explore all other options first. Have spoken to council about a repayment plan and tried to look at how to balance our books and fit in the repayments over the 2 years we have been given as well as cope with my mat leave. DP finally persuaded me that he would ask BIL for a LOAN for 1/3 amount which we would repay with interest- not to be given it as a handout or to keep.

We spent ages coming up with an email, basically explaining the situation and stating that we would really appreciate the loan, would repay it as soon as we could, how hard we both found it to ask but of course, if it wasnt possible it was not a problem and we would go back to the bank. i honestly felt sick writing it and v v embarassed at sending it.

I was dreading his reply but didnt expect what we got.

He didnt get back for a week, fair enough. When he did, he told us that he has been trying to find ways to get us out of paying at all, speaking to the council and pretending to be our debt adviser. he told them we are in massive debt and will not be paying.
he says he wont give us a loan as he thinks this would be propping up our lifestyle, that this will be a valuable life lesson and that he thinks we should be supporting the banks through a loan from them. He also said that he found it strange that we would not be able to find that amount as it is such a small amount. He also sad he was angry that we would approach him in the first place and it wasnt his fault that I came from "tinkers and layabout" stock. He said he was embarassed that his own brother would have to stoop so low as to ask for a handout. We didnt.

we have since found out that BIL shared our email with other family members in a - "jeez - what are they like" and "cant quite believe I have a brother so low on the social rung"

i feel very hurt and embarassed. Not at that he isnt going to give us a loan but at what he said. DP is shocked that when he finally had to ask for something, this is what has happened. I am also angry that even when he knew how hard we found it to go cap in hand for a loan, he shared this and is basically making a laugh of us behind our backs.

I suppose i am not really asking for advice - we will get through it somehow but wanted somewhere to vent.

well done for making it to the end... Smile

OP posts:
BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 02:11

That was a joke!

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 02:18

Thank you for all your lovely words. They made me weep ( combined with pg hormones!). We waited years to have DC2 - until we had some money saved for mat leave and til DD no longer needed nursery. I dont want this to affect what we think of that decision.

DP and I are certainly no saints but we do our absolute best to help others out when we can.

girloutofglasgow - i know i ended up with the good one. Right from first time i met his brothers and family. He is a kind, decent, considerate man, a fab father and about as far from being like them as possible. They see that as weakness - i see it as strength. I also know he blames himself for not being in a position to sort it all out and take it away from me whilst pg.

i do appreciate all your advice and time. New ideas to be added to my to-do list. I suppose i realise tonight how much i was actually hoping for the loan but when we get through this - we will know we have done it on our own.

thanks again for the space to vent and I am off to bed.

OP posts:
Robfordscrack · 03/04/2014 02:19

Wow. Just wow. I don't think he has any money btw. probably in mountains of debt which would explain some resentment towards you as you sound good with money.

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 02:20

posted too soon!

thanks again for the space to vent and I am off to bed. It will all seem a bit more manageable in the morning no doubt.

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 03/04/2014 02:36

id snub the fucker from not till eternity. he sounds absolutely vile. vow never to ask for a penny from him ever again - you will sort this. dh and i have never had any family and everything we have is ours, or if we have a loan (which we do) we are paying it off.

he is revelling in his snobbery. leave him to it. ignore him from now on.

MexicanSpringtime · 03/04/2014 03:23

I would like to see you email back and cc to all the others. Make it very clear that you are upset about him being too poor to lend you any money, but that you will not accept his insults.
And tell him that it is about time he paid for the funeral.

Expatedout · 03/04/2014 03:31

Agree with all the other posters. Your very own Scrooge in the family . Send him an email with Bah Humbug , hope those chains they are making are not too heavy on it. And then never give him the time of day again. Don't entertain any more conversation about your debt even when you have resolved it , leave him to stew. (He will be desperate to vindicate his decision by knowing what your solution is , so don't tell him). I absolutely despise people like your BIL.

ThatVikRinA22 · 03/04/2014 03:36

i wouldnt give him the satisfaction of letting everyone know - he will twist it.

i would just email back saying thank you for your opinion and since you paid his share of mils funeral perhaps he could simply repay his percentage of that and you will sort the rest yourselves.

if he starts to broadcast this info broadcast your own - ie - how he failed ot pay for his own mothers funeral and left it to you tinkers and paupers.....
he is an absolute power hungry knob of the highest order. shame him. then fuck him off never to grace your thoughts or home again.

YoDiggity · 03/04/2014 03:56

This man sounds utterly vile, (almost like a caricature of a Fat Cat City type - does he really call you paupers and tinkers and black sheep or is this just your interpretation/projection of what you think he feels?)

Anyway assuming it is exactly as you say it is, frankly, as he has form for being a total cunt I am surprised you went to him first rather than just applying for a bank loan as you don't have any other debt. But anyway, you did, and now you know where you stand with this vile tosser. I think you would both be much happier if you cut him out of your lives forever. His poor mother would be turning her grave.

But but but...

I have to say OP, I'm staggered that anyone can be presented with a bill for £25,000 (inface £50,000 as a couple), and have no option other than to accept it. Is that right?

I am also staggered by this! I own a flat and all owners pay quite a large insurance premium to cover the building itself, nad would bloody well hope that would cover subsidence. Surely you have this? Confused

Is the flat ex-local authority but in a block that is still owned by the council? I have heard that they can come with some huge hidden costs where maintenance is concerned, as whatever the council pays to maintain it they pass on a share to all the owner occupiers, and they are not exactly known for looking hard for the cheapest and best contractors to give the deal to.

It is possible that the council paid for an insurance policy that didn't cover subsidence, especially if the building had already had movement in the past, and now you are paying the price for something that should have been checked out at the point of purchase.

I think you need to take some legal advice here.

And be very proud of your husband. Being a nurse is never, ever being a loser, whatever wanky BIL thinks.

MexicanSpringtime · 03/04/2014 03:58

Make it very clear that you NOT are upset, duh!

YoDiggity · 03/04/2014 04:05

OK, sorry I missed the posts upthread where you have already answered some of my questions. I think it's mad that this should cost you 25% of the value of the flat. I think you need to say you absolutely cannot pay it, as see what they suggest. could you sell it back to the council, or to a HA, and move?

And do take some legal advice.

Woodenheart · 03/04/2014 04:36

He sounds a very bitter twisted jealous piece of shit.

Don't ever speak to him again, take the Aunt out for a drink Grin & raise a toast to your future,

Yours will be a happy future, filled with love & happiness.

BIL's will be a very unhappy & lonely one.

Chin Chin Wine

AveryJessup · 03/04/2014 04:40

Wow. And I thought my BILs were assholes...

Cut contact with them. I'm surprised you haven't already to be honest. With someone that arrogant and vile, you'll never win any argument so all you can do rise above it and cut contact. My family situation is similar - asshole BILs who are older than DH and bullied him growing up and tried to undermine him. I got fed up with the comments when I would meet them and when we got married there were issues with our wedding (neither of them came) so we cut contact. DH has done well in his career now and earns as much or maybe more than them but when he was young and on a lower salary, they made comments like 'that street sweeper probably earns as much as you do' and so on.

In your situation, I'd write a response to BIL saying 'we took you at your word when you said that if we ever needed help, we should ask. Clearly we should have known better than to trust the words of a banker who essentially makes a living from theft. Good luck with the remainder of your life and your money-making endeavors. You won't hear from us again in future'.

You don't need an ignorant shitbag like this in your life. He was clearly getting a kick out of looking down on you and DH. The comments about Irish people alone are just vile.

I hope you find a way to pay the bill for your flat. Maybe a bank loan taken out over a long term so the monthly payments are low might work? Or can your DH get extra shifts in his nursing job?

CoilRegret · 03/04/2014 04:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoilRegret · 03/04/2014 04:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AveryJessup · 03/04/2014 04:56

Aww, just read that you were both crying over this and even thought about termination Sad. I'm pregnant too at the moment and it must seem overwhelming to deal with this when your hormones are all out of whack and you have so much else to think about.

Don't let your bastard BIL get to you like that and ruin your happiness. I really got upset with my BILs about my wedding and looking back it wasn't worth it. They're not good people and being around them was only costing us emotional energy and bringing us down. I really think you and especially your lovely DH should distance yourselves from his family. They're not worth it.

Focus on your own lovely family and stick to them. Forget about the rest of them.

crabb · 03/04/2014 05:07

Someone said morally and emotionally bankrupt upthread. Spot on. You almost have to feel sorry for someone so empty of human feeling that the only way to make himself feel good is to dump on others in difficult circumstances and brag about it!

Keep them well away from your lovely family from now on. Good luck sorting out the finances.

dulldeirdre · 03/04/2014 06:39

Your BIL appears to have mental health issues. He clearly gets 'off' on your misfortunes. Why on earth would he mock your dp for being a nurse? Was NIL spoilt rotten as a child?

dulldeirdre · 03/04/2014 06:40

BIL not NIL

43percentburnt · 03/04/2014 06:48

Hi Vex, I am sorry that your bil acted like this, he is clearly a nasty person, I hope the rest of his family realise that.

With regards to the bill are you in a leasehold flat, do you pay a management charge? Is there buildings insurance? I have some knowledge as this is in my sector of work. It may be worth speaking to the solicitor who initially did your conveyancing work for you. If they are no longer trading or don't appear too helpful you need to double check this with one who does. 25k is a massive sum of money, this needs to be triple checked prior to you paying. Pm me if you want.

BalloonSlayer · 03/04/2014 07:05

God how awful

I'd suggest your DH replies, and ccs in the entire family, something like:

Dear Brother

Thank you for your email.

To clarify, I was asking you for a small LOAN, to be repaid with interest, because over a number of years you have encouraged me to do this should we ever need to. I am sorry that I did not know that you had changed your mind. Had I known this I would never have asked.

I am surprised that you feel quite so offended at my inquiry however, given your many offers over the years. I made it quite clear in my original email that I was asking for a loan, repayable with interest, not a "handout," so I am puzzled as to why you have decided to broadcast to the family that I was.

I am horrified that you chose to speak to the council and tell them lies about our financial circumstances. DW and I have no debts whatsoever, and your claiming that we do is both untruthful and malicious. I am currently taking legal advice on this matter.

Your comments about my wife's family are both horrifying and un-called for.

Please do not reply to this email.

You will be hearing from me via the small claims court for your share of our mother's funeral costs, which we agreed to split, and which you left me to pay.

Yours sincerely

saffronwblue · 03/04/2014 07:07

Great email, Balloon.

BalloonSlayer · 03/04/2014 07:08

"He is CEO of quite a large financial consultancy firm."

  • and I would actually look into whether phoning your council, pretending to be someone else and telling lies constitutes financial malpractice.
JupiterGentlefly · 03/04/2014 07:10

'hi bil no problem. But if you could forward your share of the funeral expenses that you have yet to pay that would help us greatly'

AnyFucker · 03/04/2014 07:11

kill him

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