DH won't tell me how much he earns.

[Katiejon]

DH won't tell me his total take home pay.
He is employed, but his salary goes into another account and he transfers money in to our joint account.
He won't discuss this with me.
Bills etc are paid.
What do I do? He is secretive.

My opinion is that finances between married couples should be out in the open. Say one partner inherits a substantial amount then that shouldn't be kept a secret. The will business adds a whole new dimension. That surely could be contested. It's not a set up I'd be very happy about.

TBH you don't sound worried enough.

The will situation is a huge concern- how will the children be provided for if he dies?

How was the mortgage arranged if he didn't disclose his earnings?

If he won't discuss such big issues, knowing that you and the children are financially vulnerable, then this isn't a marriage. How would he react if you told him that you intended to discuss your financial situation with a solicitor?

As a short-term measure, you can claim child benefit, and your H will have to pay back the equivalent from his earnings. And TBH you probably should, because you might well need an independent income stream .

This thread is an eye opener.
It veers between "if you're getting enough to buy fairy liquid, who cares?" to "ltb as he's not honest".
I'm on the second team, if yer asking.

Why wouldn't a husband disclose what he is earning? Genuinely? Clearly there are discrepancies if he's not willing to do that. Those discrepancies may be emotional (an affair), cultural (women don't count) or gender (you don't earn so you have no power). Either way, he's acting like a dick.

Zoezeebo, your argument would hold weight if you could spell. Although even then it wouldn't, I'm afraid.

Zoezeebo, if he didn't want his partner to share his finances he shouldn't be married.

Family finances have nothing to do with privacy.
One thing is to keep a known amount to be spent on what you like, the other is to keep the wife (or husband) in the dark about how much money belongs to the family.

It isn't odd to have a will, for anyone with children they are a complete no brainer.

Without one how can you ensure that your children are properly cared for in the event of your death? DH and I both have wills.

They detail who is to be our dc's legal guardian should we both die, what is to happen financially to ensure they are provided for.

Without a will you are potentially leaving your dependents to the mercy of others, who may do the opposite of what you want, because no will means they can.

On top of which dying without a will (intestate) means that beneficiaries have to be decided through a legal process, which takes time, and that someone else will decide what happens to your everything, including children.

I totally disagree with the contents of his will but am stunned that a pp saw having a will as a strange thing.

I really don't understand the debate here at all.

A marriage is an equal partnership. Finances are hugely important - especially when you have kids.

There is NO good reason to withhold what he is paid. There is NO good reason the will is not updated.

OP - you need to put your foot down. No way I would leave myself and my kids with this level of dependency and be treated this disrespectfully.

The implications here could be very serious.

I would actually LTB over this if he didn't address this issue. My plan would be:

1. Put in writing my concerns and list the implications (many good points on this thread)
2. State I am not "playing". We address this or we go to counselling
3. If he won't agree to that then I call a solicitor and start divorce proceedings

Sorry OP but I actually hate this sort of shit as more than adultery. I know others might think that's extreme but you can recover from that - as painful as it might be. Being financially fucked (potentially with huge joint debts you were in the dark about etc) that take 20 years to clear and stop you getting a pension so your retirement is shit is a lifetime of pain.

I know he might not have debts - but any lack of financial disclosure means you won't ever know and I could not live like that.

Zoe also enjoys bumping 4 yr old threads about teenagers masturbating

Just to put his comments in perspective

Hi all. Just woke up.
Will read your comments asap.
Thanks.

I just don't agree that counselling is necessary here.

Marriage is a partnership and it's a financial contract, like it or not. Full financial disclosure should be immediate.
And given his conduct so far, I'd want to see payslips too.

Financial secrecy and withholding should be treated as seriously as infidelity. (unless it is the free choice of both partners)

There was another thread recently about women having some secret 'running away money'.

It would raise a red flag for me if someone I was married to wasn't willing to disclose basic information about earnings (otherwise how can you both meaningfully discuss your future?), but on the other hand I would want some emergency money myself if I ever got married so I wouldn't get too het up about knowing every detail.

Its about equality and partnership, not control.

I don't think it's about knowing the exact figures or seeing the payslips. My DH doesn't see my payslips or bank statements and I don't see his unless he leaves his statement on the bed because he's a sloppy sod and doesn't put it away which really annoys me. I do think it's about trust and esteem though and I don't think those two things are inextricably linked to knowing exactly what one's partner earns.

Having skimmed the thread again OP, is there something cultural going on here. I don't get the bit about the brothers and the will, I really don't. You are his wife and the money should go to you. Is this some sort of family business where family has too much influence over both of you?

Do you both love each other and want to be with each other?

"Running away money" is either secret because the bastard is abusive, in which case secrecy is necessary, or it's not exactly running away money, but it's savings that all parts in a marriage should have in equal proportions.
Yes, it can be used to finance a break up, but it's essential so that both have equal freedom to walk away from the relationship.

have in equal proportions

Hmmm. Shouldn't the SAHP (assuming they are) have a larger proportion, especially if DCs are involved. They have reduced earning power and potentially the greater childcare issues should a split occur (assuming the primary carer ends up with more than 50:50 residency).

FWIW - DW (SAHM) has a sizeable slush fund should something happen, I'm the breadwinner and have higher earning potential.

This is something that seems to be recommended on quite a few MN threads, "you can never be too careful" etc.

It's not about the payslips, but in this case, given his behaviour, I'd want to see them.

I think that you need to register for an experican free credit check on you and if possible your husband names plus your address. The check will revel all credit in both your names this would give you a starting block to build a proper financial picture.

Look at the land registry website then you can see if your house is in your name or his I think it will also show morgages against the house.

I may be misinterpreting some of the posts, but it appears that a handful of people are saying that, as long as the little wifey (sahm) has housekeeping money to pay for all her basic needs, then she should be happy with that and stay out of any grown up discussions about money. I really hope that I've got that wrong.

I was a sahm until my children were at school, worked part time and now don't work at all. I know vaguely what my husband earns, file all the bank statements and so could know exactly if I so wished and he would be totally open with me if I asked. We spent a whole day recently reviewing our various pensions and what we will be living on in our old age. Trust is vital in a marriage and hiding financial affairs does not promote trust in any way.

If you can't share this information, talk about stuff, make plans for the future based on what you have then is not a marriage, sorry.

Hi all. Thanks 4 confirming my belief that openness and honesty r important.
If dh still refusing to tell me salary and not answering my questions, then I don't see how I can stay with him.
I have a baby and a child under 8 with him, both born after marriage.

I believe that all parents who don't do paid work, or whose personal income wouldn't meet the monthly bills should, if at all possible, have savings in their own name. As a young woman I used to call this my 'running away money', but since having children have come to think of it as my 'husband being run over by a bus money'. His income dwarfs mine and, quite reasonably, our household finances reflect his income. I know that if he died suddenly, we would be financially cared for, interms of the mortgage being paid off and a death in service benefit,but I see it as being really important that I can keep afloat whilst grieving and making those awful phone calls. I am self employed and can't see myself carrying on without a break. So I have an amount equal to one month of DH's usual contribution to the joint account plus three months of my own expenses. I don't exactly know how much DH in his name, but if I asked he would tell me, and that is the key.

I'd be very, very concerned. You are not dating: you are married with children, which entwines your finances whether your husband likes it or not. You are entitled to know what state your family finances are in. To gave no idea about your mortgage, savings, take home pay as a family etc is really not on. It's an odd form of control which leaves you powerless to save, plan or have an overview of things, especially as you have no personal income. It makes you utterly reliant on him. If he just didn't want you to worry about it all, that would be one thing, but you are also saying that bank statements and bills are impossible to find around the house. Has this always been the case, or is it a recent thing? You have an absolute right to know how financially secure you are as a couple. My concern would be that he has racked up debts. Someone I know was married to a man who remortgaged their house and drained their entire joint savings account to pay gambling debts- she only found out when she had a bailiff at the door, as he 'handled' (hid) all of their finances. It does happen and you are utterly right to be vigilant and concerned by the early dings that something is being deliberately kept from you. I hope all is well for you.

Have no idea, not gave no idea! Signs, not dings!

Thank u all 4 ur strength. I see objectively how awful this is.
I can find bills but not the statements for his bank account.
We have a joint account, I have those statements.
Its his attitude when I ask, its not like he's saying its all online statements.
End of marriage if he doesn't reveal financial affairs?, yes, I think so.
Do I have the emotional strength? , I'll have to find it.

For me this would be a deal breaker.

I do feel for you - its not great either way really is it. If he isn't hiding anything (which i suspect he is) then it is equally as bad because he is keeping things from you for what reason? its none of your business? nice . For me, it wouldnt be about knowing the exact amounts, i doubt there is the need for that as you seem to be in financially secure, in fact it would hardly be worthy of conversation for me, beyond "oh yes, i got X amount of £££ for that particular contract/stint of overtime/whatever" "oh, ok then, nice one, where shall we go the weekend?" But HE has turned it into an issue by being secretive about it - why can you find your joint account statements but not his, bills etc, but no bank account details - he is deliberately hiding it from you, its not even a case of him being patronising an saying "oh, its extra money so i didn't think it was relevant" etc, he is taking steps to prevent you knowing about it.

For me there would be only one way out of this where i would want to continue with this marriage and that would be if he was in financial difficulties and he was desperately trying to sort it out without telling you. Even then, he absolutely should have told you and not tried to hide it, but i can sort of understand why he might want to hide that (of course it would depend on the origin of the difficulties - gambling etc = bad, a business venture gone belly up - how can i help?). Him keeping the money back for himself is a deal breaker, he is working longer hours so that he can have this money, it sounds like his family are secondary to this - nup, not for me.

You sound incredibly strong OP, you may have some difficult times ahead, maybe when he realises you are serious he might open up about things, but it may well be too late by then, he is a foolish man indeed. You are going to be fine.