DH won't tell me how much he earns.

[Katiejon]

DH won't tell me his total take home pay.
He is employed, but his salary goes into another account and he transfers money in to our joint account.
He won't discuss this with me.
Bills etc are paid.
What do I do? He is secretive.

IT IS NOT HIS MONEY. IT IS FAMILY MONEY. YOU BEING A STAY AT HOME MOTHER MEANS HE IS ABLE TO WORK AND THEREFORE ALL MONEY IS SHARED.

That's why you have a right to know.

Woah Guy no need to shout

Its ok guy, u were emphasising a point.
I need to rest after csection and spd, dh gets angry about that.

I want to speak to Womens Aid today.
Please send me lots of encouragement to do this.
Im very upset and must formulate a plan asap.

Not a good situation but some facts we haven't had:

What is your relationship like generally, do you laugh? Is he good with the children?

What is your relationship like with your parents/his parents - what do your parents in particular think?

Would you consider going back to work and getting your own independence and autonomy there. I hated spending "shared family" money and was always much too careful over that to the point where DH used to sometimes leave me money and tell me to specifically replace clothes/hairdressers, etc.

How much housekeeping does your DH give to you and does he provide for your every need, the DC's every need, can you all have pretty much what you want.

Do you have to scrimp at the supermarket, do you or the children ever have to go without, do you have to watch the heating, etc.

I'm not saying what your husband is doing about the money is right; but I'm not convinced he's doing it for the wrong reasons. My DH wasn't secretive if I asked, probably a generation ago now, but neither did he readily disclose that sort of information when the children were tiny. He grew up in relative poverty and I think he was always scared that if he didn't preserve money then his children might too.

I'm just not getting a feel from the thread about your circumstances overall and whether in other ways he's a good husband and father.

is your relationship ok apart from this?

secrecy is lack of trust and honesty and not a good basis for a marriage. as you say you are very vulnerable.

good luck. i think you're being very strong.

katie - Sending you lots of encouragement and hugs.

You deserve to be in a relationship where you are an equal, not dependant on your partner's kindness, or not.

Jane, privacy is where people spend their pocket money, or allowance. The op doesn't even know how much money is entering the family.
Prying is different than having the right to know.
Being married carries great financial joint responsibility, as debt will be joint as well as assets. So, if one party wants to know how much money the other is keeping, if not by mutual agreement, then I'd think it was very unreasonable to keep it a secret.

Keep strong OP. Good luck with WA, but if not what you want, then seek legal advice and possibly a forensic accountant.

I should think a solicitor should be your first step, you can get the first half an hour free. Maybe post in legal to get some pointers about what questions to raise to make the most of that time.

Nearthewindymill - the OP has just had a baby it would appear by c section - i don't think she should have to get a second job, she already has one! Didn't you feel belittled by your DH not disclosing finances to you because he didn't trust you not to spend it?

Do you have friends who you could confide in, what about your family? It sounds like things aren't great if he is complaining that you are not doing enough after a c-section. Whilst this thread is principally about the financial secrecy, i think there is more going on here and its quite worrying. How old are your DC?

Sadly the law says otherwise. You have no obligation to give your partner financial disclosure and if they look where you have not given them consent to look you they break the law - not that I support that law but that is what it says. in practice few will get an injunction as Mr Imerman did so I doubt anyone needs to worry too much if they pick locks on a husband's desk, employ a PI, hack his phone or put key logging software on his PC and listening devices around the house but I am just saying be careful. There are criminal offences in there.

I would not marry or go anywhere near a partner who was not 2100% open always about everything and with that agreed before marriage with sight of all tx returns always and everything but that is my culture. My father even sent everyone in the family his will and full details of everything all his life. It is how we are - you don't need financial secrets from those whom you love in my world view. Not everyone shares that view,. We even were happy to open each other's post. I realise not all couples have the same views however.

Wherever did I say my DH didn't disclose finances because he didn't trust me not to spend? No, he never, ever belittled me and this is why I ask the questions. I entered marriage with property and my own investments and DH went on to earn a great deal of money and overtook me very quickly. We have always lived well within rather than up to our means and this is not what I'm getting a feel from from the OP.

I think there is a huge difference between living a very comfortable life and a very secure one and not knowing and scrimping and scraping and not knowing.

The OP clearly states they are financially solvent, so she has certainly not said that she is struggling. That is besides the point - also, how does she know they are within their means if there is a whole load of money unaccounted for. Just like your DH, if he isn't or hasn't disclosed, you could never be sure that there wasn't great wads of money invested in things you knew nothing about that could well go sour and end up taking you without your means - it is that sort of vulnerability that the OP is not happy with, if you were happy with that then thats fine, for you.

"My DH wasn't secretive if I asked, probably a generation ago now, but neither did he readily disclose that sort of information when the children were tiny. He grew up in relative poverty and I think he was always scared that if he didn't preserve money then his children might too." These were your words - which implied that if he disclosed the finances that the money wouldn't be safe. You also say that he didn't readily disclose the information, that is fine, but you say that he would not have been secretive had you asked.

Him laughing and being good with the children does not make up for the lack of trust here - also the OP has implied that he is making comments about lack of housework or the like following her cesarian.

Katie

You tell us so little it's difficult to advise. We don't really know whether you have an amazing marriage with this man and the only sticking point is the screcy over money. We don't really know your relationship at all. Would you be happy to stay if you had some transparency with the finances?

But if a husband was as screetive as yours, and refused to even discuss it, like yours, and got anoyed with me when I was recovering post-natal, he's demonstrating that you are not in an eual partnership and is demonstrating controlling behaviour. I really wonder what you are getting out of this marriage.

Yes, I'll encourage you to speak to womens aid. It may help you get some perspective on your own situation.

Did you chose to marry him or were you encouraged to do so by others?

It's a great first step to contact Womens Aid as I think there is a lot more to this than you have put here.
Giving you strength to pick up that phone and make that call.
They can help you with your next steps, contacts and a plan of action.
Do rest up and don't be bullied into doing anything until you are well, recovered and ready.
Good luck - you can do this!

Keeping his personal papers at the office? That's just bizarre - and therefore suspicious, if you weren't suspicious enough already...

My wageslips are emailed to my work account and I don't print them out, and I did have some financial stuff at work because if I was querying something with the bank I was generally phoning them during working hours. So, it's not that bizarre.

I don't have bank statements or payslips (e-payslip and Internet banking) nor nessacerily tell DH how much I take home every month but our marriage is good and we have a rough financial plan for next couple of years (including planning for baby and potential house move related to my shares from work).

I have no idea what his bank balance is today. I don't see that as a problem.

If your marriage is otherwise good then you have to ask yourself why he is being defensive. Could he be nervous that you might have a lavish plans if he has a lot of savings? Could he worried that you are going to divorce him? (it sounds like you want to?).

Are you genuinely worried about debt/secret family etc. I think you putting pressure on him daily might make him more defensive. If you know that he earns £20K/£30k/£200k what does that mean to you? Do you want more money? If you think he is earning a massive salary and if it turns out he isn't will you be dissapointed?

I need to rest after csection and spd, dh gets angry about that.

He gets angry with you, because you need to rest and recover from a C-section?

Bloody hell. If he had surgery and needed time to recover, would he tolerate you being angry with him?

Sorry OP, that one sentence says a huge amount about your relationship, and not in a good way.

I did once keep most of our family files in my office at work as I did all the family finances and filing during the working day. I remember the office had a break in once and I was worried all that private stuff might have got into the hands of a burglar. However we both had access to everything. It does not sounds as though his stuff is in the office for convenience. I think we are concluding:-

1. Most couples want total disclosure of everything (and that is my position)
2. Some couples want to keep their earnings, tax returns investments secret from each other but if that is their choice and the other spouse has enough to live on then some are happy with that.
3. Some couples keep things secret but do not even give the other enough to live on - which was why in its early days child benefit was paid to women rather than just on the man's tax returns so the woman feeding the children got cash in her hand from the state whatever her husband earned as even some very rich husbands in those days and probably today did not give their wife enough to feed her and the children.

My last conclusion will not be to everyone's taste but it is:

1. If possible don't give you your jobs when babies come.

Prolificpenguin - i think that is a perfectly fine situation, the only reason i know how much DP earns (self employed) Is that i do his tax return. When he worked for other people i was quite happy not to know, i wasn't really that bothered - so long as we had enough money. I used to put my money directly into his bank account as i had a bad credit rating, we were never secretive about it though. That is the key, nobody really needs to know the exact amount but ballpark is probably the norm unless the partner is the one to do the accounts. Its the secrecy thats the problem here.

There are a few issues i see here.

1. The secrecy - is he hiding something or is he just an arrogant controlling bastard? selfish?
2. The fact that the OP maintains that they are financially secure, yet the overtime is going into his bank account for god knows what when she is struggling post-surgery - surely the priority is to get his arse home in the evenings to give his wife a break?
3. The biggest red flag for me - he gets angry that the OP is tired following the surgery and spd, has two very small children to look after, i can only hope he doesn't expect his dinner on the table as well!

All of the above show a fundamental lack of respect and care for the OP. I don't know if it has to mean the end of the marriage, but if he is unwilling to adress those issues it would be a huge cloud.

I agree there are issues here, but the OP had her baby last November so maybe her husband thought she would be physically better by now. From other posts she does have help with the children as well.

Is he hiding something or is he just a private person?

November? so thats about four months ago - 12 weeks to get over a c-section and SPD? righto Fuck me, she should stop whinging and get out and dig the vegetable patch so she doesn't fritter away even more of his money?

Is he hiding something or is he just a cunt?

16 weeks even

Yes, 16 weeks. I have no idea if that is feasible or not. Four/Five months.

As I said upthread, DP and I don't have this level of information about each others finances. Does that make us cunts?