DH won't tell me how much he earns.

[Katiejon]

DH won't tell me his total take home pay.
He is employed, but his salary goes into another account and he transfers money in to our joint account.
He won't discuss this with me.
Bills etc are paid.
What do I do? He is secretive.

I've been a sahm for a few years to three dcs.

IMO it's not knowing exactly how much OPs DH earns, but where it is. My DHs income fluctuates wildly (self employed) so I can't say for sure how much he earns year on year, unless I checked. But a few years ago he drew up a 'where the cash is stashed' file which detailed all savings/pensions etc - both his personal and joint - so that if he became seriously ill or died, I would have all the financial info that I would need to keep the household going, to hand.

I would feel very vulnerable in the OPs shoes.

Peggy logg1e i disagree that its not his decision to make about his savings.

You can't honestly think that it's his decision to make as to what savings they have?? At the moment his decision might be that he has savings but she doesn't. Either that, or he has expenditure that she doesn't even have a say in.

OP How many times are you going to ask, and for how long?

Time to see a lawyer.

Err... He is not providing money for childcare and he won't allow her to know how much money there is so she can determine whether there is enough to pay for it. It's immaterial, she doesn't need to have a specific reason anyway, I was just trying to point out why the judgy smugging about dependency was misplaced and explain secrecy undermines equality in situations like this:

And again I'll say if you want to have that kind of unequal and miserly relationship don't get married.

It's not as relevant when it is the mother who has the higher salary because of the disparity between maternity/paternity leave entitlement. If it's the woman with the high salary she will be much more inclined to pay for childcare once maternity leave ends to enable herself to return to work.

OP: My ex used to do this. I never saw a wage slip, any bills etc. I had absolutely no idea how much money he earned, although he knew how much I earned.

I ended up getting phone calls from our mortgage company about when our arrears were going to be paid off, the bailiffs turned up at the door one day when I had six week old DS in my arms.

One month the money that he was supposed to have given to me had "disappeared" along with a hefty bonus from work.

I left not long after. When he died, and I had to sort out his estate, I found all sorts of debts.

If you don't know how much money your DP earns, you can not be an equal partner in any decision making. You can't know if the money he is giving you for food and the children is miserly, or generous. You can't decide together whether you can afford to put money aside in case there is a disaster. You can't know if you can afford to study part time for a future career and use childcare. You end up being a dependant who has to live on what he decides to give you.

Yep, it can be a way of making sure the OP lives only in the present without being able to have a meaningful say in what major plans should be made for the future.

Lots of feedback.
Thanks.
I feel vulnerable - he is making me dependent on his kindness to live.

So.. Is it time to set a deadline? As in, we need to talk about this tomorrow night, no things won't be continuing as normal unless we have the chat.

Did you claim Child Benefit OP?

Do you receive NI credits?

Look for the few small things you can do NOW to improve your position. Taking positive action will build your confidence.

Katiejon, in my opinion if a spouse cares at all for their partner they would be more interested in seeing that he or she feels secure than in maintaining some sort of secrecy regarding anything, be it finances or where they're going for a pint. While I know that it is VERY important that you know financially where your family stands, it's equally important that you consider the overall respect and concern that your DH has for you as a wife, mother, and person.

As a side note, I worked for 30+ years in the US's OAP program. You would be absolutely SHOCKED to know how many spouses (usually wives) know little to nothing about family finances and are either shocked to discover the lack of income left for them and/or their young children or are left destitute upon the death of their partner. I can't count the times I heard 'But I can't live on that! What am I going to do?'. I saw more than one widow lose her home to foreclosure or lose her comfortable lifestyle for a lifestyle of penury or dependence on her children. Even though I always earned as much or more than my DH, I always made sure that BOTH of us knew what the other earned AND what provisions had been made for the other in the event of death. The fact that your DH refuses to discuss these matters and has, indeed, arranged for his savings to go elsewhere would be frightening to me!

My sister (SAHM), on the other hand, was content to let her DH handle the finances. As long as she had money to spend, she didn't care what was in the bank or how much BiL earned. She didn't know he had lost everything in the '08 property bubble until they were so deep in debt she had to call our mother in tears to borrow funds to keep them afloat. He was too ashamed to tell her and so let her keep spending, knowing that they didn't have funds to cover the debt.

Financial transparency is of paramount importance whether it be in government, business, or family matters!

I am really stagered how women can become a SAHM and then have no idea how much their partner earns. When iIwas growing up my DH didnt ever reveal to my DM how much he earned and in those days the MAN filled in the tax return on behalf of the women. So he knew how much she earned (thye both worked full time) but she never knew.

FGS - go and find out. Look for documents around the house, payslips, bank statements etc. If there is nothing there is something seriously wrong here.

Please - dont end up having kids with a man who is secretive about his earnings! Just dont! Keep your independence

Hand cream- they already do have children.

Ridiculous

i dont see why you need to know down to the last penny what he has
also, he has nothing that is only his. The money belongs to them.
As the op is not underage, she has every right to know and decide as a business partner with 50% shares.

Marriage is a financial contract in law.

I think it's time for legal advice.
He could easily empty his own accounts to his brothers.
Or he could be doing overtime to pay debts.

Yes, vulnerable.

Am keeping up the pressure on him.
I agree poss overtime to pay debts and money to his brothers.
If he won't reveal info to me, I have to think what action I can take to either force him to reveal income or to end this marriage.
He wanted 2 children, I needed a lot of time to be ready after dc1.

There is not a legal obligation of disclosure actually. A case called Imerman v Imerman also said it was up to the couple. if you both choose to keep things secret, never see each other's bank sttaements, pay slips, files then if the other person breaches privacy by snooping they break the law. Whereas, it says, if their relationship is totally open as ours was - (I did both our tax returns, all accounts were joint, we were both interested in and knew everything and I out earned him too not that that is relevant) then it is fine to look. In other words the couple decide what level of privacy they want over each other's documents and papers. I would say never marry someone without knowing and sharing everything but not everyone shares that view.

The only legal right under English law here is if you are married and do not financially support each other at all - then you can apply to court for some money from your other half. However that is not 50% during marriage - just what is needed to feed and house you etc. So she or he could have £100m but has no obligation to tell the other during the marriage or share that with them.

Katie Am keeping up the pressure on him

I'm not sure this is the best way at all. What form does this pressure take? How long do you intend to keep it up?

It's handing all of the control to him. You should ask once and outline what your action will be if he refuses.

I did know everything (I think) when we married, but not now.
I see household bills and bank statements, but have no idea of how much is saved from his income.
He told me he didn't need my income to live.

Does he keep paper files in a filing cabinet at home in ordeer like a lot of us do - eg tax files, pay slip files or does he hide things with pass words or keep them at the office?

The bank statement would be a good start. It probably shows his wages going in every month so multiply that by 12 and that will show his net annual earnings if he is paid under PAYE. Secondly it might show what he transfers which is excess cash after spending each month into another account and it might give the name of that account.

If he is a company director on line you can buy the account from companieshouse.gov.uk which give a bit more information too.

Those things would be a good start.

Good point loggie.
Don't yet know what to do if he refuses.
Today he said he works hard so why does he need to account to me.
By keeping finances private and separate, he is keeping our lives separate.
Thanx for helping me look at this thru a strangers eyes.

I can't find bank statement with wages going in, that's how this thread started.