Just had the "I've paid for everything and now you're going to steal it all" conversation

[Amicus1966]

Have told DH that I cannot live like this much longer so he really needs to push the estate agent re selling the house so we can both find somewhere else.
He has come at me with a tirade of how HE put the majority of the money into the property, how he pays all the bills ( including HIS sky sports) and that I can't expect to just walk off with half the proceeds from " his" house.
Seems to have completely overlooked the fact that I have spent eleven years liking after our children so he could go to work, play golf whenever he felt like it and bugger off on his all boys golfing hols.
Tried to explain that the proceeds from the sale have to be split to but a home for him and a home for me AND his DCs. Have also explained that neither of us will be able to afford a 4 bed detached with downstairs cloakroom and master bedroom with ensure (which we currently have) so get over it!
He is stalling as he doesnot want to leave this house. Neither do I but hey ho shit happens.
He has come out with the classic line that "all women are gold diggers", and "home wreckers".
He just doesn't get that downsizing is the only option and says the DCs are going to hate me for making them move into a "cramped hovel" as he calls it.
Why do they have to be so awkward when things are hard enough already?

I keep thinking the £80000 is the amount he can afford to give you. Dh's ex offered him £15k.

We got £60k in court & half our costs because she wasn't playing fair and dividing assets equally.

Amicus, try not to take this to court. Try to sort out a settlement via solicitors first - a solicitor will be able to advise you on a fair settlement - which should include a fair share of the assets, plus child and spousal maintenance as you made a career sacrifice to look after the children.

Often a solicitor's letter stating what a judge would consider reasonable, if the case went to court, is enough to get their agreement (going by a friend's experience who has just been through this). Actually going to court could cost you both tens of thousands - so avoid that if you can - but do use a solicitor to run through your entitlements, send out letters on your behalf and try to reach a financial agreement.

Your husband will probably try and pressure you not to use a solicitor - because he is obviously trying to pull the wool over your eyes. My friend ex-h did exactly the same (and called her a gold-digger too).

You should get legal advice from a solicitor with experience on finances.
Then negotiate, preferably through the solicitor, or a mediator, if you feel comfortable with that and he's not abusive.
Do try to avoid going to court, but always leave it as a possibility.

howlongistoolong - I have no idea if it's any different if you aren't married - sorry!

Divorce is bloody awful though - I'm finding it very stressful as my exH is quite the entitled twat who thought he would get a 50/50 divide - which is frankly, bollocks as he earns big money & I never will - not with being the main caret of our kids. He lives over 90 miles away with the OW, so can't do school drop offs & pick ups or mid week stay overs. I'm looking for work but that's a nightmare, as I'm qualified to teach in FE & part-time jobs are like hens teeth. My career took a back seat to his as he worked away, so that's inmjy favour for the divorce too.

Sorry about the typos!

Howlong - this is only if you're married.

If you are just co-habiting you will only be entitled to child maintenance.

If you and your partner jointly own a house, then you either have to sell up and divide the proceeds 50-50 or one buys the other out.

Women who are sahms and unmarried are often in quite a precarious position financially, I'm afraid.

"Georgina1975

My DP bought the family home using large pre-marriage inheritance. Ex-wife got 70% of value (no mortgage) 50% of savings (generated by his inheritance too) and 50% of pension. He also paid above CM rate and pocket monthly money for three 3 children until each were 19. She had/has a well-paid FT job.

Quite right too say I..."

Sorry, I dont get this and cant work out if it is a typo from Georgina1975

Why is right if in your experience your DP lost 70% of the property and 50% of the savings funded from his inheritance gained prior to the marriage when the marriage was dissolved? How is that fair. In fact I would be immoral to me even if the inheritance came after marriage.

Because once you get married the law considers all assets that you take in to the marriage have become joint by mutual consent. As does everything from within the marriage. Bear in mind this includes debt, a negative asset.

That's why pre-nups become popular - to specifically agree to preclude specified assets.

You may consider it to be immoral, and many would agree. But that is the law. That is why it often needs mediating or a judge!

Yes see a solicitor again, if he's self employed and may hide money/assets, v important you get more than a 50/50 split on the house. Tbh, in your situation, I'd get as much cash upfront to put into house/savings over higher maintenance/cs payments as it reduces your interactions and ongoing dependence on him behaving.

Howlong sorry if you're in this situation too. At least I know I have some rights and protection within the law. I never thought I'd say this but thank God I married him ITSWIM.
Have just spent all morning shopping for his Birthday presents( tomorrow). Nothing from me obviously but had to buy something for the DCs to give him. Hope he's not expecting same as last year( electric golf bag trolley and an iPod touch). Mug and a t shirt this year I'm afraid.
I just assumed that getting a solicitor involved would automatically lead to court. Even then, how can the solicitor force him to fess up about ALL his financial assets? Couldn't he just lie?

Harder for him to lie about the house equity though, and do you have evidence of his other assets to take to the solicitor? Tbh, he sounds horrible and court isn't the worst that can happen, getting financially screwed after you've cared for your kids for years is. He's threatening and bullying you. Get more detailed advice, even if it costs in the short run. Get what you're entitled to, forget about what he thinks is fair, don't even discuss it directly.

It's sad when it comes to this. He isn't being fare but getting solicitors involved and threatening courts only leads to two things, solicitors getting rich and parents of three children detesting each other for ever. The children then suffer because of it.

Personally if it were me and I was desperate to get out I would try to negotiate a deal with him. Explain that you want a decent house for the kids and an income that will help you look after them properly. An example might be to suggest £100k and £100 a week. That way you gena but more than he is offering and you can walk away with an outcome that doesn't leave you worn out with endless court battles and horrible atmospheres.

If he won't agree then you have no option but to take it further.

I find it hard to understand why a bloke would put his kids this low down his pecking order.

Definitely seek advise - another gold-digger here too despite the fact that the day we moved into our house I paid half its current market value to the sum of £125,000. Funny how when we split, I was 'trying to bleed him dry' and 'steal' all his money. Wanker.

A good solicitor will sort you out and put an end to his nonsense. For what its worth, £60 a week for 3 children doesn't sound like loads to me but then I am a 'gold digger' . Can you really feed, clothe, buy shoes, clubs, haircuts etc for £30 a week per child?

I disagree with the idea that op's dh is reasonable. Lawyers are worth paying for when the ex has already resorted to name calling etc. talking to him directly gives op's dh more bullying opportunities. It really depends, everyone wants amicable but not if it just means op not getting a fair deal and being bullied into a low settlement from a lying ex...

£100,000 + £100.00 per week!!!
Can already see him blowing that one out the water.
Shit! I really don't want to get courts involved as I totally agree we are going to end up hating each other and That will affect the DCs.
Re the CM, The figure of £60 per week was the one I got off CM website so thought it must be right.

Divorce is a nasty messy business. Yes he can lie.

You can throw lots of money at solicitors and court, both get progressively bitter and loose chunks of your lives. Your DC will end up in the middle and possibly feeling forced to pick a parent. A couple of years in court is a major inconvenience to you but to them its a big chunk of childhood. Aim to avoid getting too tied up in communicating via solicitors if you can.

Get evidence of what ever you can. Six months bank statements showing ins and outs, evidence of other accounts, a copy of the pension letter etc. don't ask him for it get copies before it gets nasty and you don't need to tell him they're in your posession unless needed.

Once you've got your head around total money available take your file of info to a solicitor and talk about realistic expectations for your situation.

You could maybe pen three options with the solicitor to put forward. For example:

1. you and DC stay in family home till youngest is 18 he pays mortgage then house is sold 50/50 + child maintenance,
2. % assets in lieu of spousal maintenance and child maintenance,
3. he buys you out of house and pays spousal and child maintenance.

Child access is something that will no doubt be raised at some point. How do you see that working? Alternate weekends/ a week in holidays?

I'm guessing 50/ 50 is unlikely (i'd never have gone that route with my DC)

I've found over the years communicating with my XH via email is very effective. It means we both have written record of communication. Its less instant response than text and you can type what you'd like to say then send a thought through rationed response when you've calmed down.

I had a good solicitor for my divorce. He told me not to use him as a counsellor, he told me not to close communication lines if I could help it. He also taught me to focus on the big picture. My priorities weren't actually to do with money. When it came down to it having the DC full time and getting the divorce through quickly were my priorities.

Doing this has enabled me to get on with my life, something over which
I have no regrets. I'm happily remarried, have another DC, all three DC are happy and settled. I have a tolerable relationship with XH which means the DC are able to have a positive relationship with him and most importantly feel happy with where they come from.

I didn't go for nothing but I didn't bother with spousal maintenance or expect to get child maintenance long term. My solicitor did talk about the extremes of you could fight for x he could claim y.

At the end of the day you'll no doubt need to be able to be civil to each other for your DC's sakes at graduations, weddings, births of DGC's etc. If you can find some ground where you financially and emotionally have enough to move on quickly, with your and the children's lives, thats a really not such a bad place to be.

A divorce is a legal process, which will be granted in court - but as long as you can reach a financial settlement between you, you don't actually have to fight it out in front of a judge. Solicitors are expensive, but fighting it out in court is much more so.

I would always advise to sort it amicably if possible - but if your dh is calling you a gold digger already, it is quite clear that he sees the marital assets as mainly "his" and you can just have 50% of the house and some child maintenance every week This is not acceptable- you are entitled to much more.

Get a good family solicitor - don't go with a cheapo one - they really are worth their weight in gold. S/he will lay out fair financial terms for the divorce, so that you both get an equal share - she won't "take him to the cleaners" - although that's probably what he'll say. He will have to provide full financial disclosure to her - bank statements, business accounts and so on.

My friend went through exactly this - her dh thought he could leave and just bung her some money every month. She got an awful lot more - including the house and the car, child maintenance and spousal maintenance- because she had the dc. He was furious - and still is by all accounts - but it was a fair and equal settlement.

He did agree out of court, eventually (although she also compromised on things as well) but he knew she probably would have been awarded more if they had battled it out in court, and it would cost him a fortune.

Re access to the DCs: he's never been that interested in them until our "separation" and now he actually has conversations as opposed to just shouting "shut up" with them.
His idea if our split is that

I pack a very small bag and turn up in the councils doorstep who will promptly hand over the keys to a lovely big house

I get CM only as I have put NOTHING into this 12 year marriage

The DCs stay with him during the week as being self employed he can take them/ collect them from school. He will drop them off at my lavish council pad Friday evening and pick them up again Sunday evening thus giving him the whole weekend to do exactly what he does now( lie on his ugly reclining leather sofa watching football, popping up town sat night to grab a granny, then spend a leisurely Sunday strolling round the golf course.

School holidays will be spent mainly with me as he suddenly can't get any time off work at all even though ATM he works roughly 9 -3 and plays golf all day Wednesday too, so a non work day.

That is what is ticking over in his mind.

Oh and so as not to disrupt the DCs any further I am to leave all the stuff that I have paid for over the years. Taking it would leave him with a washing machine a kingsize bed and his ugly sofa. Oh and a lot of empty rooms seeing as I have purchased ALL of the rest over the years.

Sorry am getting angry and ranting now. Not helpful.

Amicus please carry on getting angry and ranty. It is healthy and a welcome sight - much better than timid and apologetic. He is a shit and sounds like he has been very abusive to you and the children over the years - so you are bound to veer from angry to sad to griefstricken and furious and all stops in between for a while. But for now harness that anger and calmly show him you're not going to take any more of his appalling behaviour.

Maintain dignity at all times and don't show him he's getting to you even on the days that you do feel crap. He'll hate that!

Fuck me Amicus! That's really similar to the set up my friends dh suggested when it was clear she wasn't going to roll over! I won't give details, as it's not my story. But of course, it didn't happen. Apparently the solicitors were all laughing at his letters.

Get thee to a solicitor. Luckily, the law won't agree with him that you've brought nothing to the marriage.

Well actually I think it could be helpful, provided you don't lose it completely.

You keep talking about wanting to be fair, how he isn't going to agree to a proper division of assets etc etc.

Just read what you have written above, and then have a big rethink.

He is expecting you to walk away from your children, your home, your possessions, any kind of financial security, while he carries on doing exactly what the hell he wants to.

You need to get angry, and channel it into fighting for a deal for yourself and your DCs that allows you to provide them with a secure home.

If necessary the court can instruct the parties to a divorce to appoint an expert witness (often a forensic accountant) to assess the value of the assets.

In fact, this morning I finished drafting a valuation of a number of businesses which was ordered by the court for a divorce. These reports do not come cheaply, but in your position, I think it would actually benefit you to have an independent 3rd party assess the marital assets.

Good luck.

The great realisation, that will happen, is that what he says and thinks just isn't your problem. Your divorcing him after all.

Try to think of his comments as noise. Your solicitor will give you objective advise and thats what you need to listen to. For all his noise he can't avoid the basic marital assets division - whatever the percentage share turns out to be.