I don't want to rip my family apart but I have to. He slapped our DD's face.

[FlatsInDagenham]

I will try to keep the story short. Last night DH slapped our 5yo DD's face because she was being obstinate, arguing and refusing to listen to him. Not hard enough to hurt much, but still, a slap on the face.

He has form for this kind of thing.

I have told him I want to separate.

He is devastated. I am devastated. When DD finds out, she will be devastated too. Our 2yo DD might not notice much but she loves her dad.

So that's 4 devastated people who want to be together but I am forcing us apart.

But I just cannot accept his treatment of our DD. If he had shown any regret or questioned his own actions at all, I might have been able to help him through it. But he stands by his actions "110%". Just like he stood by his actions the other times. I can't stand by him and let it happen again. I can't co-parent with a man who thinks that a 5yo can be "manipulative", has in the past described her as a "little bitch" and thinks it's ok to slap her face.

He's not a bad person (yes I know how that sounds but it's true). But sometimes he gets it so unbelievably wrong - parenting, I mean. He also has alcohol issues (though I must stress that he hadn't been drinking when this happened) that have plagued our marriage for more years than I care to remember. Many times I thought I'd end our relationship over the alcohol. But in the end it's something else that's tipped me over the edge. He slapped our DD's face. For arguing back. I can't come back from that.

Oh God, please tell me I haven't over reacted (he thinks I have). Please tell me if you think I'm splitting up our precious family unnecessarily.

I think I would sign up to go on a parenting course with him, make it clear it is totally unacceptable parenting and if he is not interested in changing his parenting style (may be that was the way he was treated) then there would be no hope for you as a family together.

I think the parenting course is essential because even if you did separate, he would have access rights and who's to say he wouldn't continue slapping her if he feels fit?

If a childminder or babysitter had slapped her, would you hesitate to take action?

All children can be a pain at times but as adults we're generally equipped to handle this. I actually read the title and assumed that the crisis had blown up over a dad overreacting to a teen DD. That would obviously be unacceptable too but H is so much bigger and stronger and older than a five year old. Next time it might be the two year old that is "manipulative".

Funnily enough donkeys, he has recently started to say that our 2yo is learning how to manipulate me. He thinks I'm soft.

He'll be hitting the 2yo next. He feels entitled to hit you all. He doesn't consider you human.

It's much better to be safe than sorry when it comes to abusive men, OP. It's incredibly rare for an abusive man to change his ways. They normally escalate because they think they can. They think they're right.

leave.

unless you want your daughters to grow up thinking its normal for a man to hit them.
they will learn to live with this, and then are open to abuse from future partners. thats not exaggeration.

do not allow this abuse to continue. he is not remorseful and thinks he was right.
he was not right.
you are.
leave. do not accept this on behalf of your daughters. if he slapped you around the face would you accept it?
then why should your children.

later, when they are in abusive relationships will you stand the guilt of knowing you taught them that its ok?

Please consider your next move carefully,

I went to police and involved gp and social services, he was stupid enough to admit everything to social worker and blame me for involving them unnecessarily

things went from bad to worse at lightning speed, he went from being an arse hole, abusive bully to abducting my dd and threatening her life, you just dint know what the typing point is for these abusive men to snap, thats why leaving is the most dangerous time,

courts were involved, he got supervised visitation, was aggresive, judge stopped all contact,

Best thing I ever did for dd, we would have had a horrible exiatence with him, without I have a happy secure Confident dd,

Please think what youtu are teaching your little girl, if its ok for her daddy to cal her a bitch and slap her across the face, what will be ok for her boyfriends and future husband to do to her,

I think you are under reacting not overreacting! He assaulted a small child fgs! I'd have the child abusing fucker arrested and never see him again.

I think I'd second the parenting course with him, and getting him some reading material - personally I really like positive discipline, as I find it works and it's not too dippy. Unless you are prepared to press for him having zero access, and you think you can get that enforced, which means involving the police/social services, then he is still going to have access to the children and it will now be unsupervised, so not really a better situation.

Unless he is a complete dick, and he really doesn't want to save your marriage he is going to agree to a parenting course.

The real issue here is how he feels about it. Smacking children in any form should make the smacker feel horrible about themselves, because it is bullying however we might want to dress it up, and it speaks volumes about our lack of control.

I couldn't read and run.

OP please understand that you haven't been the cause for the family upset. He has done that. For the sake of your dc please stick to your guns.

Vicar is right. If your dc are exposed to this and it isn't dealt with effectively they will end up thinking that his behaviour is acceptable in their future adult relationships. It saddens me that your dd was trying to defend him. I understand why she was, but it still sad.

Keep strong.

Sounds a lot like my childhood and all I can say is I WISH my mum had left when I was young! Plan carefully, try to sort things reasonably and in a civil way ( less stressful on kids) and GET out!!!! My DH and I carefully discussed every aspect of parenting we could think of before having children as we are both from 'messy' homes and we want our kids to have better childhoods than we had. Disagreeing on parenting styles is a huge issue, but also remember that he will still continue to discipline his way without you around. On a professional note: children ARE manipulative and will take advantage of a situation if they can. They know if a relationship isn't stable and behaviour will reflect this as they feel insecure and uncertain of boundaries. I do, however, object to the language your DP is using in front of children, NOT a good role model and not what is expect from a loving parent. My F ( no 'dear' at all!) used to say similar things and now fervently denies it, but made a huge impact on my life and confidence, etc...be strong, if you have family to support you get them to rally round

I second Chells, I am still angry that there were violent episodes in my childhood and I wasn't protected.

Unfortunately, you do need to leave (with proper support and official documentation as to why) as he doesn't seem to be in a place yet where he is ready to confront and change behaviours (which is incredibly difficult even when you are fully committed to changing)... and your dc can't wait for that.

Your children might appear to be upset about the split but it is the right thing to do. So please follow through with splitting as his actions and words are abusive to your defenceless children. Luckily they aren't defenceless; they have you.

Kids are highly manipulative!!!! However that is not excuse for slapping one around the face!!

Without getting into a debate on physical discipline - there are times when a tap is acceptable imo, about to touch the hot cooker ring for example. But your dh was way out of line!'

I agree with the posters saying tty a parenting course and even anger management if you genuinely don't want to split. I would also use SS a way to address the drinking a d say no more and compulsory aa meetings

Good luck

My guess is this man is only angry to his own family members; he may well be charm personified to those in the outside world so this is not and never has been about anger management. This is about power and control and this man wants absolute over his family.

OP - you must get him out of your day to day lives as of now and use legal means to do so. You also state he has form for this kind of thing. Also you mention he has had issues with alcohol - that alone is enough to get him to go without any of the other things being taken into account.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships - surely not this frankly awful role model of one?. You and she deserve far better.

The 5 year old can 'take a slap'?

This will only ever get worse OP. You have to remove your kids from this man.

My feeling reading this, it is not the slap. I mean who here can put their hand up and state honestly they never ever lose their temper, never shout a bit too loud, never ever ever feel red mist, when you are tired and have a child who has pushed the boundaries just too far. However, you say he has form - so it is not the first time or only event? And his drinking, you sound so absolutely fed up of him and his behaviour/attitude/drinking/ dry drunk behaviour/stinking thinking. You know it is ok to end the relationship because of all of that, and this tipping you over the edge doesn't make it you breaking up the family unit. He sounds like he has not been a positive person in your relationship or your family for a long time. His behaviour has destroyed your family, and you sound like you would be happier without him! Attila mentioned about teaching your DC about relationships. You do not want your daughter to end up in a horrible relationship because that is what she thinks is normal. You do all deserve better.

If my dh laid a finger on any of my kids I would kick him out before he could even apologise and he would never see us ever again.
Slapping any age child across the face is disgusting! I hope your h will be having supervised contact with the kids op!

100% doing the right thing (or 110% )

But try to decouple the incident with separation when you explain things to DD1 or she'll feel responsible = guilty.

Op, does he hit you too?

I have on occasion (2x) smacked my 2 year old on the bottom. Both times for pulling away from me and running into the road. It was only after about a million times of telling him not to and him ignoring me that I did it and I cried myself senseless both times afterwards with guilt even though I had made a deliberate choice to do it, reasoning that I preferred that as an option to his death. However, NEVER EVER EVER EVER could I imagine a scenario in which I would or my DH would slap a child on the face!!!! What that says is that he lost his temper and he reacted and that lack of control is unacceptable. If he was remorseful afterwards then perhaps a parenting course etc would be a good idea, but the fact that he is not remorseful is a deal breaker.

You are definitely doing the right thing by leaving him.

Your children deserve to be safe and will thank you for it when they are older. They do not deserve to grow up in an environment where they get physically abused.

Good luck OP. Stick to your decision, for yourself and your children.

I think 5 year olds are very capable of being manipulative at times - it's part of pushing boundaries and growing up and learning what you can and can't do. It's not a big deal with normal parenting discipline.

I'm not anti-smacking at all, I smacked my son sometimes, on the bum, but a slap round the face? totally different. Seriously crosses the line.

You haven't over-reacted. His lack of remorse or understanding that this is not ok, and his calling her names and reacting in anger to normal 5 year old jinks, would worry me greatly as it can only escalate. We've all mistakes as parents, and we usually feel terrible about it, not defending it.

I can't help but wonder what it must be like for a five year old living with a man who describes her as a little bitch who can take a slap. And an hour earlier he's the same man pouring her cornflakes or putting toothpaste on her brush.

You are living in a 'plagued' marriage so you are absolutely right to leave after this incident. The alternative is for your DCs to grow feeling slapping someone around the face is normal and it isn't especially and adult to so young a child. he could have done serious damage too. Get advice, make a plan, leave. Long term you will not regret it. Think how pleasant your life will be once you do not have the alcohol issues and the fear of his doing this again, hanging over you. You have the right to a peaceful life OP.

You are doing the right thing.
Make sure you report his actions, and insist on supervised contact.

He may also turn violent against you.

You should get legal advice.

Have you asked him to leave?