Mum wants money back for education

[ssalvato]

So my mum and dad gave me money that they specifically stated needed to be paid off for a house and a car. I have spent the last 5.5 years paying this off and am so happy that I have now paid it off to the tune of £10,000. With that done, I call my mum and say I've paid off my debts, I don't really want to be paying money into your account until the end of time. Plus the fact that I am finishing up a phd and am short on cash now. I'm not earning money and my husband has just lost his job.

She turns round and says, well your father (who died in July) gave you £14k for your Oxford education. YOu need to pay your debts. I reply, I didn't think that was a debt. She said, as your parents, we didn't insist you pay it, it was just assumed that you would pay it back! It was money for my education, isn't it what parents do.

That said, yes they gave me a thousand here and a thousand there through uni but isn't that what parents do? I took out loans to fund myself and worked through most of it. So now I am thinking I am done paying, she brings up this 'debt' that has never been mentioned before.

I did say to her, "i'll see you right", meaning when I am earning I will make sure I look after you. Thinks are more complicated by the fact that my husband does not get on with my mother and my mother hates him and blames him for everything. He doesn't want our money to be perpeptually going into her account for a debt that was money for education. The problems I have:

1. She has got me questioning what the terms of that money were. Was it a loan? I'm pretty sure they said we will pay for it, I know you'll see us right. Rather than, you can pay us back when you are rich! Either way there was no formality over the payment.

1. Should I pay her perpeptually? If I do, I am acknowleding that this is something that specifically needs to be paid and will take me years and years.

1. When I told her I didn't have the money to pay, she automatically jumped to the fact that my husband was to blame. She didn't once ask whether things were ok financially.

1. I want to help her out. I acknowledge her and my father's contribution, but should I feel endebted to her? Should I feel like I owe it to her?

1. Am I being harsh? Should I just keep paying her?

I don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should pay her, but I can't afford to right now. Additionally, isn't it a parent's job/desire to help out their children? Should they expect it back? Is it wrong of her to feel entitled to regular financial payments?

SSalvato

Unless there was a clear discussion at the time around 'we can really afford it but can lend you the money for uni if you want to go. What would like to do?' Then no. I wouldn't pay it back.

Is she trying to keep you tied to her?

Relevant related thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1983188-Desperate-situation-need-help

Sounds like this is about much more than money.

Perhaps ask her frankly if she has money problems (even though it's a thoroughly shitty attitude to take, regardless)

However, if talking sense continues to fail I'd suggest asking her to submit an invoice detailing exactly what you owe her. University, orthodontics, school uniforms, the lot. Then post her a quote detailing all the out of pocket expenses and lost earnings you expect to incur by "seeing her right" as she ages. Suggest she offsets this against the loan or just tell her to bugger off

If you can't afford to then just don't pay it. What can she do?

Does she expect you to go hungry? What does she need your money for?

Wanting to help her out is one thing. Giving her money you and your husband can't afford is not helping her out. What is this arrangement doing to your marriage?

Two things to add:

This money was given to me in 2006 and is only being mentioned now.

I AM willing to take care of her. I'll give her anything I can, showing my gratitude and appreciation through dinners, arranging grocery deliveries, a car. There are other ways surely.

In response to one comment - you're right, it won't end there. She is already saying, well I gave you x amount of money whilst you did y, I paid for this, I paid for that. We have done so much for you! It won't ever stop.

Finally, I am emmigrating to the US with my husband in a year, she hates it. She is finding reasons to hate him, to turn him against me. She has pushed me away and all of a sudden, these 'debts' have surfaced, since our relationship deteriorated...

Hi. Did your father give you £14k? Was it in lump sums for particular things or was it ad hoc when you came to them and asked for money.

If your father was removing lump sums from your parents savings with an understanding that this would be paid back if and when you were able then I think you have a moral obligation toward them.

£24k over five years along with your own bank loans seems very hefty loans from your parents.

Could you discuss a break in repayments and a reduction in amounts.

I don't think parents have any obligation to pay uni fees or costs. It is a choice some parents make. If I'd taken 14k from my parents I wouldn't be happy until id paid it back.

Probably should also mention, she cried proverty to me. Told me she needed money from me to pay for my father's head stone. Last week, she bought a second house! I'm relucantant to believe the "I need the money" line, but I don't have anything!
She said I just bought a house, I need the money! Unreal right...

Just caught up.

This is not about money at all, is it?

This is about maintaining influence in your life.

Could you see a counsellor in RL about your family dynamics?

Also, direct your mum to CAB if she has money worries or if your father has creditors.

It doesn't really matter what financial position she is or isn't in. You have no moral high ground when you have taken 14k of her money. I would feel bad if id taken £100 from my mum or dad, not because they can or can't afford it but because it is their money not mine.

It's hardly your mum's fault that you have consistently lived beyond your means.

rainbowsmiles You are wrong.

'You never said it was a loan. So I won't be paying you.'

This is naff all to do with money and everything to do with your DP and you moving to the US.

She's hurt at being left. Hardly surprising really. Talk about money all you like but that's not the issue. It's the way to make you feel you need to stay.

Rainbow don't be stupid. Your parents clothes fed etc all your early life. Better get on and repay that 'debt' then eh....?

Moral obligations are farts in the wind.

Unless she or your father implicitly said, in words of one syllable "if you go to university, any money we give you must be recorded and treated like a loan", she can fuck off to the far side of fuck.

She has no legal and no moral leg to stand on.

That's harsh rainbow, did you pay them back for all the food they bought you when were a child?
Most people get help from there parents for uni. It's not living beyond your means it's investing in your future. I fully intend to pay as much as I can towards dds education because it is my responsibility.

Love your concise turn of phrase expat!

Money given to kids for uni is not normally lent. Your relationship sounds a bit dysfunctional.

Did you have a closer relationship with your dad growing up? Is he the one who wanted to give you the money, despite protests from her?

It sounds to me that there may be an underlying resentment predating your choice of DP.

No actually it is totally different actually. Parents are not under any obligation to financially support adults through university. The idea that 14k given to an adult capable of supporting herself is the same as clothing feeding and sheltering your children is ridiculous.

University education is a choice not a right.

There is no dispute the op had taken the money. She isn't disputing the amount.she also isn't disputing that she had a vague agreement that she would "see them right"

I'm also fairly sure her mum is manipulating with these funds. Best way to deal with it. Pay it back and break ties.

Why embark upon a phd when you can't afford it.

I can't imagine expecting any of my dc to pay back anything at all except an agreed loan but even then I would write it off or defer repayment if dc was struggling. Many years ago my ds got into financial difficulties while living abroad. Dh and I took out a loan to give him money. We paid the loan and he paid as and when he could. You dont treat your children like this. I wouldn't give your dm another penny. Ask her what she values most your relationship or an invented debt. I am appalled.

In the court of law expat but thankfully in familial and friendly relationships it means a lot.

Who will inherit when she dies? Just you or lots of siblings or the cat's home?
I see she doesn't like your DH and he is currently not working...
Wondering if she is actually trying to keep some money 'safe' for you. Whatever you give to her isn't being squandered by your DH? (Not saying that is the case but might be her view of it)
Maybe to keep control but also maybe that she thinks she is protecting your long term interests.
(I'm sitting for as long as possible on some inheritance due to DB - an adult - who for a long time could not see that his business partner was taking him for a ride. The penny is dropping thankfully. If he had got it straight away the inheritance money would have disappeared by now. He doesn't know what we are doing ...but one day he will (hopefully) thank us for it.)

It doesn't really matter what financial position she is or isn't in. You have no moral high ground when you have taken 14k of her money. I would feel bad if id taken £100 from my mum or dad, not because they can or can't afford it but because it is their money not mine.

It's hardly your mum's fault that you have consistently lived beyond your means.

For goodness sake rainbow, how wrong can a poster be!

It wasn't made clear to the OP that this was any sort of loan and for her mum to do this now is unbelievable.

My youngest finishes uni this year and we have very happily supported her financially for 3 years and I would do it again in an instant. It's what parents do if they can possible afford it.

As for "living beyond her means", most students can't manage without parental support and my child is certainly not living in the lap of luxury.

Thank you all for the comments and feedback.

@rainbowsmiles I would fully accept any monies taken that were explicitly stated needed to be repaid. I am not in the habit of screwing my parents/mum. I couldn't be where I am without their support. However I agree with many of the comments on here, that this is no longer about money and also about entitlement. My mum is always going to find something I need to repay and there is no line drawn. In relation to your "living beyond your means" comment, nothing I have written suggests I am living beyond my means. Quite the opposite, I have saved thousands towards my house and repayed my mother thousands all whilst repaying a current mortgage (all by myself before marriage) on a phd scholarship. I think I have a good grasp on reality. But I am currently just a student! I am certainly willing to take care of my mum when I can, this goes without saying. I am just opposed to "debts" appearing out of the woodwork so that continual payments can be made into her account. Especially when she told me she needs money from me and purchases a second house!

But fireside that is your choice. Good on you. Doesn't make the OPs mum wrong.