Would you cut your mother out of your life? - long, sorry

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It sounds really harsh but she has upset me so much and I just don't want her around to hurt me anymore.

A year ago she told me my SIL found it difficult to be around my child who has special needs. It hurt me really badly at the time but I didn't say anything because my brother and SIL are not the most approachable people. In the end I told my brother about it in a row which wasn't the best of times and I apologised for that. I also rang my mum and apologised if I'd got her into trouble (although really it needed to come out into the open and be dealt with).

My mum then completely astounded me by denying telling me any such thing and she, my brother and my SIL have ganged up on me, called me a poisonous liar and my SIL has told me she never wants to see me again (no great loss there actually, I am pretty sure she is largely responsible for my mum's reaction).

My mum subsequently some weeks later asked me if we could put it behind us. I have told her not until she has apologised and accepted responsibility for what she has done. She refuses to do so (she has never been good at apologising, always has to be right) and whilst telling me to my face that she wants to move on I have found out that she is telling other people in the family that I have done a good job of splitting the family up. It is true my older brother has supported me but only because he knows I am not a liar and my mum has always treated him as an outsider in the family and pitted the rest of us against him.

She is really a very manipulative person. I realise that now. But she is very loving if you agree with her. I have liked to think we have had a really close relationship till now - I used to ring her several times a week and talk to her about almost anything - but the reality is that there is a price to pay for that. Whenever there have been disagreements between us she has always blamed me or DH and I have accepted that to keep things running smoothly between us.

I have been aware for some time that she gossips about me to others in the family, mainly because she gossips about all of them to me and criticises and badmouths them, the way they bring up their children, etc. I used to think stupidly at one time that I was her loyal confidante and then realised with a shock that she was talking just as much about me too.

I really feel that I have so many friends and people who I trust and who really seem to care about me in my life, including DH's family (MIL I think loves me more than my own mum does, she is so sweet), why have people around who don't support me and who I am? Certainly there is no subtext with DH's family - what you see is what you get with all of them and I prefer to have friends around me like that too.

I have never stood up to my mum like this before. My older brother always has and that is why he has been badmouthed and ostracised all his life. My little brother (who always agrees with everything my mum says, worryingly so) even told DH some time ago that he doesn't care for my older brother - but he has never got to know him. My older brother is a really nice person but he has his own thoughts and opinions.

I actually feel hugely liberated by what's happened, like I can be free to be who I am now without the shadow of pleasing my mum hanging over me. I will never stop her seeing her grandchildren but don't want to have a close relationship with her anymore. And yet a part of me tells me this is wrong because we have always been close.

By the way, I have tried talking to her over and over and have put my side across numerous times but she keeps side-stepping the issue and not responding to it, says there is no point in discussing it, we both feel betrayed and that's that. And recently she has implied this must be about more than the immediate incident. It isn't! I just don't like being called a liar and blamed for all of this.

Does anyone think I am overreacting about all of this and should just let it go and get on with my mum? Would you feel as upset as I do?

cod psychology (you did ask what people think of it) and I don't mean Cod

The Real Cam (was there a fake one then?)

I am seriously wondering if you are a troll

My guess is that you are probably not and are very much for real.

I would really like to know why you feel that the "other side of the story" is so important to you. These people are incapable of hearing their childrens' perspectives so why on earth should I give toxic parents the same consideration. You are expecting a great deal here.

I think you've done exactly the right thing - telling them the honest truth without getting down to their level. You've been incredibly brave, and have kept your dignity through all of this in a very good way, without letting them manipulate you. I really hope it works out for you.

Thanks Twocats x.

Cam, it may be that you weren't about to but could I please ask you (on a humanitarian level) not to comment on what I have written. I am feeling the most fragile I have felt in my life atm and also have two very heavy days coming up at work. I just can't take any more criticism right now, even though you have every right to express your opinion.

I have relied very heavily on the support given to me on this thread to get me this far, and have been reading and re-reading the lovely and supportive things each of you has said. I have even printed sections of this thread off and got it by my bedside for when I wake in the night. It is not just my brother that has got me through but the "kindness of strangers". I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

Hi Pages - I posted on here once before and was sorry to see that this seems to have come back into your life again - I have read your last few posts and you seem to be holding strong which is fabulous, but this post is also a bit of "tough Love" ( lovely pshycobabble..) and a bit of a knock on the head (done with all the gentleness possible) from me to you -
First of all - the number one thing that you need to grapple, wrestle with and ultimately accept is that mo matter how long you wish for, long for, lie in bed at night and dream about, your mother is never going to knock on your door and tell you she was wrong, how all of this has been her doing etc. - it is just not going to happen - she is too deep in her denial of the entire situation and, because she sees herself as a victim, she will never change. The hardest part for you is to deal with the fact that she is never going to change into the mother you wish she would be - she can't, doesn't know how and is too glued to the "victim" role that works so well for her.
Second, you know that she is very good at manipulating people and situations so stop giving her stuff to play with - no more letters, phone calls or messages via other family memebers - you have said that you do not want her in your life (for all the right reasons, BTW) so now live that promise that you have made.
Every time you tell her that you are not talking to her and then get sucked into another discussion, you undermine your own resolve and lose any credibilty ie - they see that you are not serious about cutting all this out of your life and so use it against you - you can issue ultimatums all day long and no one will ever believe you because you haven't followed through. So it's not about games and whose playing - you don't want to be on the playing field at all and the best way to do this is to stick to your decision which you know in your heart of hearts is the right one - and every time somebody wants to talk about this - your response is "I have said everything I needed to and will not be talking about this anymore" and kee repeating it like a mantra until either the topic of covnerstaion changes or the other person flounces off (and believe me, there will be a lot of flouncing!) but, at some point the meassage will sink in - your job is not to let them get to you - so keep repeating the mantra and ignore all else -
You keep hold of the fact that you have made these decisions because they are what's best for your family - now go and live them - stop phaffing around with this whole "he said, she said, I never..., if you don't ... etc -
Now go and look in on your family and remind yourself that you are stong enough to do this -

I am so sorry if this message has been too harsh,- that was not my intention - but I do want to say get on with living your own life
PS - That would be the best revenge!

Just want to add my support Pages. I have cut my father out of my life completely and he does not know that I have a DS (he was abusive in many ways) and I absolutely agree with those on here who say that a parent does not automatically have rights to see or influence you or their grandchildren.

I know that like Greensleeves you may find it very upsetting if you cut off contact - as well as a great liberation! But I stopped seeing my father many years ago now and I feel great about it. Yes there is the odd sad moment when I see people with loving fathers/grandfathers and I wish for what might have been. But generally I feel good - so if you do want to do this, remember it might be a great help to you, not just a corner you were forced into IYSWIM.

As for those who have been less than understanding on this spread - I agree with Greensleeves early (and very restrained I might add) post about how those who haven't been there, who have loving parents, may genuinely not be able to comprehend this situation. i have often had people say to me "but he's your dad!" as if that forgives it all! It doesn't.

Hi Pages,
I didn't read the whole thread, started but somehow lost the plot.

What leaps out at me is that you are sad. You're sad that your dm could have done this to you and ds now, that she let things happen to you as a child, that she spoke badly about your df. You want a good strong caring relationship with a loving mum and you're sad because you don't have it and breaking away from her entirely and all hope of having that kind of relationship is making you very very sad.

Can't make the decision for you and I wouldn't like to push you in any direction. What I thought reading your OP was that your dm for all her faults gave you life. Without her you wouldn't be here. That's a very big thing. My view is coloured maybe because I lost my mum to cancer a year ago and although we had rough patches (but not a traumatic childhood), not a day passes that I don't miss her, talk to her as if she were with me and wish I had her here, could call up and meet for a coffee and a chat.

Could you withdraw a bit, cool down before coming to any decision? Consider whether you can be big and generous one more time, forgive and forget and give her another (final?) chance?

When she told you SIL felt uncomfortable around your ds, perhaps she was making that up, so she felt embarrassed when it all came out. I have a feeling it's really her who feels uncomfortable around him. What do you think?

Obviously if she never made that comment at all, SIL would feel angry but her reaction seems excessive to me. I'd have expected her and your db to show more sympathy for you and your situation, be a bit kinder.

Ssandy, yes it has occurred to me that my mother was possibly projecting her own feelings onto my SIL. But if my SIL was angry it should have been with my mum not me.

Coolmama, you have far from offended me, you have just answered the one remaining question I had which was how do I stop myself getting drawn back in when one of them next emails me. I know it won't be to apologise, it will be to pick up on something I've said and to say something inflammatory to get me to respond. I know you posted earlier, btw - yours is one of the posts I have printed out by my bed. And I am now going to print your new one off and put it by the computer!

Hi Pages - sorry to hear you're feeling blue. Sounds like that email from your sister really stirred it all up for you. I just wanted to add my two pennies worth for dealing with the situation. In answer to your question as to how to "cut off" a person that is hurting you, the way I've handled it so far is like this: if someone rings/emails/texts me something which upsets me. I simply don't respond. I continue to send cards, emails with "light" news and occasionally a text (for instance, a couple of weeks ago, when I heard my sis took her lo to hosp) but don't get caught up in any more confrontations. This might seem a bit "stick your head in the sand" approach but it works for me ... to a point. It's always going to hurt that you can't pick up the phone and call them, or that you won't be part of a family event. It's always going to anger you that you're seen as the "evil one who stirred everything up" but if you can, as CoolMama rightly said, take yourself out of a bad situation, you might start to build a new life for yourself, with a new network to support and love you. And if that person(s) comes even momentarily come in to your life, give them a hug and a kiss and forget all the bad stuff - just for that moment but don't let yourself get sucked into any negative stuff where you spend weeks and weeks trawling over your feelings and wake up crying, go to sleep crying and generally feel poo. I might be way off base here but I think some of the reason you're finding this so hard to handle is because you really love your mum and your sister and that's a good thing because it means that (cue psychobabble!) you've got a core centre of love and goodness that even the worst behaviour can't touch. I hope this makes sense - feel free to ignore any/all - just please stop beating yourself up - you don't deserve it xx

A subject very close to my heart......I do hope you find some peace with this.....I am still searching for it x x

Pages, just wanted to offer support. As you may have seen on the other thread, I cut my mum out my life years ago. Luckily I have support from my dsis & dbro.

I know you can do it, you have to be strong. It will be hard, but just remember why you are doing it & stick to your guns. Coolmama speaks alot of sense.

I'd cut her out quietyly, just like cashncarry says, still send cards etc but don't do anything else. I think sending more letters or emails will do more harm than good, your Mum knows the truth, it is her problem to deal with. HTH.

pages, yes I really don't understand the SIL either.

Really hope you start to feel at peace with whatever decision you make. You need your strength for your ds.

Sorry to hear it has all been stirred up again Pages.

I think Coolmamma is right - you have to accept that your mother is never going to acknowledge that she has done anything to apologise about - that would be involve looking inside herslef and admitting things that would be way too painful.

Put that desire behind you.

You are also upset about what has happened with your sister. It may be worth writing her a letter saying what you have told us here: that you have consciously never bad mouthed her father in front of her, and this wasn't something that yuo had wanted brought to her attention. That you recognise that she has a good relationship with her father - BUT (major BUT) - she cannot comment on the reality of what had happened to you and your brother at a time that she can have no knowledge of (... her mum left her father when she was 2, did I get that right). Be very firm about that - she can make no comment about things that she has no memory of, as she was too young. You are not saying he is a bad father ot her - or making any comment about thier relationship - you are talking purely about the reality of your relationship with him.

Say to her that your letter had been to your mother - and your desire for resolution - and that you had not wanted her to get involved, as you had had no issue with your relationship with her - indeed, that it was something that you valued.

Apologise if this has caused her upset, but again, emphasise that this had not been addressed to her but had been purely about the rleationship that you and your brother had had with your mother (and by extension with oyur stepfather, her father).

Re-iterate that yuo don't want to lose her friendhsip, as you value it, but that you do have other friends and support in your dh, your brother - albeit at a distance - and your lovely in-laws and many other friends.

It may be worth handwriting this letter and posting it to her - if she is istill in denial, an e-mail is too easily forwarded and can continue to be manipulated.

Remember - she is still in denial - if not about her own relationship with her mother, about the fact that her sister could have a different experience.

Just a thought: did you e-mail your letter from you and your brother to your mother? Who is to say she didn't edit it before showing it to your sister?

Prettybird, I have more or less said everything you said already in an email to my sister. And she came back to say she wasn't taking sides but felt I should just apologise to my SIL and stop dragging up the past. It is going nowehere and I am taking Coolmama's advice. I have decided to forward any correspondence from my family to a good friend of mine without opening it and she will tell me whether I want read it or not so that I don't get sucked back in. By that I mean if it is an apology she will tell me to read it, but I agree that is unlikely.

My mum may well have edited the email, good point. Also, my sister's email to me was far too eloquent to have been her work alone (older brother commented on that too) I don't think anything would surprise me anymore. But I am tired of defending myself and they can think what they like. I know the truth.

Hi Pages,
Attachment parenting is just a style of parenting that is about responding and listening to your kids, rather than imposing routines, etc. If you typed it into google, youd get loads of hits. Im not for or against AP in particular, but I just think she has written a fantastic book about how we should recognise our children for the complete people that they are, instead of imposing our own egos and world views onto them.
Prettybird makes a really good point about why you can never expect your mum to change. The fact is, that would involve your (our) mums admitting that they have caused their daughters a lot of pain over the years and are still doing so. Imagine how much strengh it has taken us to say stop, enough is enough-I cant be treated like the whipping boy of the family any more. It must take double that strengh to admit that you have basically messed up your relationship with your kids because you are too weak to deal with your psychological issues. THAT is what we expect our mums to do, and they just cant.
The thing is, WE are having to do just that to provide a better chance for our own kids. We are having to accept that our parents have done some very bad things, and as painful as it is to realise that, it means we can try to protect our own kids from this kind of BS.

This is weird but I had a nightmare once, and I dreamt that I was my mum. I realised I had well and truly done some awful things to mess up my relationship with my daughter. I woke up sobbing but so so relieved that I wasnt her, and I felt like I had been given a second chance, because I am yet to raise my family, and I can do it without behaving the way she did. I feel so sorry for her that she has no second chance to undo all the bullying and abuse she did. But lets be honest, she doesnt have to STILL keep on doing it, even now!!

Sorry, the attachment parenting reply was for your other thread, about what makes for a "normal" family.

Pages: hold on to the last four words of your post, "I know the truth".

No-one can take that away from you. You know that you are doing the right thing. You are sounding much stronger - even if you are having setbacks, which were to be expected.

It's sad that your sister can't accept that yuo can perfectly justifiably have a different "history" to hers - but at the end of the day, it is her loss. You've done what you can.

You have friends and yes, you have family - your new family, your kids, your dh and your inlaws. And you have yourself. Love yourself, love your dh, love your kids - and yes, you can still love your mum (if you want to), even if a close relationship is no longer possible.

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

Thanks Pretty bird. Actually, Sakura, I made that point to my sister. It is what is going on in the present day that is really at issue. She has pounced on the stuff about the past and completely missed the point about the scapegoating and my mum's manipultion that even SHE now is getting caught up in. Why is she emailing me and putting my mum's side across? My mum has been silent for weeks - she's just getting everyone else to fight, as usual. AP sounds interesting and I will definitely read this book.

Sorry yet again for going on... but am feeling particularly low today. My last contact with the whole family was to tell them to stop calling me a liar and start treating me with a bit of respect or leave me alone two weeks ago - and they have left me alone.

I wasn't going to issue an ultimatum, I was just going to stop contacting them but my sister's email kind of brought things to a head and I do feel better knowing I have made them realise I am deadly serious about this. But... I haven't heard anything from them and feel so hurt that they would rather lose contact with me than try and put things right.

Also, it was my mum's birthday and I didn't send a card (older brother said he wasn't going to and I just couldn't say Happy Birthday when all this has happened, it just seemed hypocritical and I also wanted them to know I meant what I said - which I do). I feel upset that this means all contact his been lost - even the cards thing that some of you advised. I suppose it seems so final and also I am feeling sorry for my mum - and yet why do I feel bad for her? She obviously doesn't care about me and all the pain that she has put me through. I do still feel it was the right decision btw and feel betetr without them around to undermine me as a person -but am just hurt that they are prepared to let me go and that it has gone this far...

it's possible that your family haven't contacted you because they don't really think you're serious. they think you'll cave in and come running back asking for forgiveness. only time will tell i think.

well done for being so strong.

Thanks warty, you're probably right. And as Coolmama said they aren't going to change their minds and say they were wrong.