'D'P has stolen all the DC's money

[thatwasprettylow]

Namechanged for this - I'd appreciate some advice, please. I'll try not to dripfeed but it's a long story so I'll have to annotate.

Basically, DP has a long history of being utterly hopeless with money. He seems totally incapable of spending money on things like bills, and squanders it on I know not what, to the extent that I've wondered if he's got a gambling addiction or something that I don't know about. This hasn't been helped by the fact that his work over the last few years has been really erratic. We've been really struggling money-wise for a few years now.

Last week I went to the bank to pay in some money that the children were given for Christmas and DS's January birthday and was told that DS's account had been closed. I assumed that the bank had just screwed up somehow, as the DC's accounts are Trust accounts and are supposed to require 3 signatures (DP's mine and my DMum's) for any withdrawals. The woman from the bank poked about a bit and said she'd ring me back, but didn't, so I asked my DMum to pop in when she was passing and see if they had sorted it.

A few days later, last Thursday, 'D'P 'confessed' to me that he somehow linked his account online to the DS's account and has, over a period of time, drained DS's account and spent all the money (about 10k). The bank had contacted him and warned him that we were inquiring about it. I told him to leave the house and called the bank, who confirmed that he has also drained DD's account.

I can't believe he's done this - I have no idea what to say to him or to the DCs, who are still quite little (6 and 2). Apart from that, I need to sort out logistics, as DP usually does the childcare while I'm at work.

He has sent me a text saying 'please can we resolve this?', as if a quick chat will sort it out. I don't want to see him - I just don't think there's anything he can say to excuse this.

The poor woman is probably in shock and trying to take it in that he could do such an utterly scumbag thing. When you're faced with something this big, it's got to be hard to gear yourself up to something so unpleasant as going to the police etc.

So, a lot of sympathy for her but it doesn't alter the fact that (imo) she does need to report this so that she doesn't condone it and it's not brushed under the carpet like her mother wants.

Definitely put down the pitchforks, give the OP a chance to process what's gone on...

But this is theft - that money was in trust for DCs, it was their money, and it's them he's stolen from. It's irrelevant his name was on the account - his name was on the account as a trustee, not as in it's partly his. He (and you, and your DM) has a legal obligation to act in the best interests of your DCs, as a trustee.

Definitely needs the police, and don't let the bank get away with it. And a big 'yes' to quoting the money laundering regulations. There is a personal obligation under those regulations (on people like banks) to deal appropriately, and certainly there are huge consequences to 'tipping off'.

It's not just the children he's stolen off either. He's stolen from every person (godparents, aunties etc) who gave the children money for their birthdays and Christmases.

He is lower than the low, but if you protect and enable people like that, you are complicit in their behaviour.

and by stealing from op in the past he has indirectly stolen from his children.

So sorry you're going through this, OP.

I'm going to come at it from a slightly different angle. I reported my then H to the police (not for fraud). He wasn't prosecuted, but got a scare.

It doesn't stop him having a relationship with DD (I waver on whether this is a good thing or not, but on balance, she does get something from the relationship).

It didn't lead to public scandal, at least as far as I know.

What it did do was draw a line on the sand - this behaviour is not acceptable, and in fact is criminal. My ex hasn't crossed that particular line again. Because right now, your exP thinks his behaviour is fine.

Don't turn "going to the police" into this enormous catastrophe. Go to the desk, find somebody to have a conversation with. Whether they do or don't take it forward, at least you'll know where you stand.

If I had to guess, I'd say your exP comes from a country where families financially support each other (wonderful in some ways, but I've lived in places where I saw some individuals take advantage of this in utterly shameless ways). He's probably spinning this to himself as being fine, family assets being shared within a family. You don't want this to be the story he "sells" to your dcs a few years down the line. Time to take a stand.

(((((OP)))))

OP, have you spoken to the bank yet today ?

I'm sorry you are going through this.

I don't post very often but I used to work for a bank dealing with complaints about savings accounts & I'm sad to say this situation is not that unusual (although the sums of money involved are).

Sorry but the account is not a 'Trust Account' - unfortunately to set up a proper Trust Account you need all kinds of legal documents & the Trust needs to be registered. Banks use the term 'Trust Account' to mean an account where the funds are held by one person for the benefit of another. This is usual for children's accounts where parents (or other family members) open the account & it is held in the adults name re the child. The money is actually considered to belong to the adult(s) involved until the child reaches adulthood & the money is then signed over to them.

However, you specifically asked the bank to set the account up so all 3 adults signatures were needed to move money & if the bank have confirmed that's what they did, they are most definitely at fault for not preventing the withdrawals/transfers. They are also at fault for allowing your partner to access the account via online banking & this needs to be fully investigated. Contact the bank and make a complaint, don't take 'no' for an answer. You need a complaint raising for 2 reasons - 1. the financial ombudsmen will expect the bank to have investigated this using their complaints procedures and 2. complaints are highly regulated & must be dealt with under strict guidelines from the Financial Conduct Authority. They also only have 8 weeks to provide you with a full response.

I would ask the bank to give you a full explanation of why they contacted your partner & as someone else said I would definitely ask to speak to their Money Laundering Official & mention 'tipping off'. Banks have to be shit hot at confidentiality & it looks like this is another mistake they've made.

I hope you manage to recover the funds op.

Before you start blaming the bank you need to ascertain what the signing instructions were. It could be ; all 3 to sign, any 2 from 3 or any 1 to sign. If it was the latter, they have done nothing wrong.

Holdthepage upthread it's been confirmed that it wasn't any one person to sign.

OP, let me start by saying I feel for you in this awful situation.
He defrauded you before and you gave him another chance. This is how he repaid that chance. For me it's unforgivable and I don't think I would want him around the children, not even for the sake of them knowing and having a relationship with him. He can't be trusted.

I would also feel duty bound to report this theft to the police as there's most likely been third party (bank) involvement and such a bank employee should be flushed out and dealt with for the sake of everyone who deals with that bank.

There's an awful lot about the situation that I can't square up. The fact that you seem so laid back about the amount of money your children have had stolen from them and say you can replace it and then that your mother will replace it, and yet you have to work two jobs and have still spent a long time struggling financially.

It doesn't seem to stack up to me, so I think there must be quite a bit more to it.
It almost sounds as though your DM is willing to 'buy him off' Has she been against this relationship and just relieved to know he's gone at any cost?

One final thing to think about. Your DCs are small now and you make decisions for them, please give some thought to when they grow up and likely find out about how their father's behaved towards them and make sure that you do the right thing, so that in later life they won't resent whatever course of action you take now (could go either way so needs some very careful consideration)

It's been confirmed the account needed all 3 signatures but what I can't understand is how he managed to 'link' the children's accounts to his using online banking. Is his own account at the same bank? If not he'd have had to set up online banking on the children's accounts as you can't take money from an account you don't have online access to. I think the bank need to be investigating this thoroughly & if you don't get proper answers you need to contact the ombudsman and the police. Usually the threat of legal action is enough for a bank - they don't want bad publicity so mention the newspapers as well.

Urgh how horrible for you OP. Very glad that you have a solicitor in the family.

One thing that comes to mind is that by registering this with the police whether or not they take any further action, you put some protection in place for yourself while you work out if he's done anything else financially dodgy in your name that you may end up carrying the can for in the future.

The record of the report may help prove you haven't been complicit in his actions and reduce the risk of you being forced to take responsibility for any credit agreements, loans etc you may come to find out he's put your name to. Hopefully he hasn't, but unfortunately right now you can't be sure what he may have done and you have your and your kids' security to think of.

So sorry you have to deal with this.

The OP has already clarified that.

We all (me, DP and DMum) set the account up together - we all had to go in and show ID and sign. We wanted 2 out of 3 of us to have to sign but the Bank said it had to be all or one, so we set it up as all (an 'and' account, apparently) I checked with the bank and they confirmed that the account was an 'and' not an 'or' account, so they've definitely messed up somehow.

The OP needs support here, not a bollocking. She has practical issues she needs to resolve now. There's good advice from nauticant and AliceinWinterWonderland on approaching the bank to recover the funds; it's a sensible place to start.

Really sorry to read this , quite astonishing that he could steal so much money under the radar

In your shoes I would be all over the bank even if you don't feel you have the stomach for it, it's an awful lot of money to kiss goodbye to and unless you are strident they will without doubt try not to refund the money

I'm a signatory for a charity and three banks said we could set up accounts as either any 2 of 3 or all three but never one, so I am confused the OP's bank even suggested it had to be "all or one".

However, anything other than informing the police would be wrong.

I don't think you have any choice but to take this further, even if you DM wants to give them more money it doesn't alter the fact the money they should have has gone. Its your dcs money not yours its not up to you to leave it, You have to act in their best interests and get this money back. If dm has more to give them then thats a bonus.
It isn't your to decide about.

I have a number of savings accounts with a building society - several of them for the DC - and I can very easily transfer from one to the other online. I hasten to add that I usually transfer from mine to theirs so that I can get a cheque drawn on their account free (on my money) as it costs £25 from mine!

The main focus here has to be to right the wrong first and foremost.

The money should not have been permitted to leave the account, but the bank allowed it to.

Start there.

They can refund the money they mistakenly (and negligently) handled. What they do then is up to them.

OP, YOU have to take this up with the bank, you ought to get all your money back without much effort at all.

Dealing with the personal/emotional stuff can be done at your own pace, and we will be here for you every step of the way. Please ignore the ranting and nasty posts here, they mean well I think, but are just furious that this has happened to you.

We (less nashy posters) are furious too, but are able to direct our anger at the correct recipient.

What you might do well to do, is to tap into ice cold fury. It allows you to be angry, but to direct that anger and manage everything around you. I find when I get into this zone that the world slows down a little and I am able to be exocet-like guided precision with my fury and highly productive as a result. Your DC need this from you now. Please come back and let us support you in this.

((((HUG))))

I think you have lived with this man for too long and have become used to his behaviour regarding money.I wonder if a part of you expected this to happen.This man does not deserve a relationship with your DC and I hope you realise just how disgusting his behaviour is.
He stole from his children.I've known people in a lot of trouble who have never stooped that low.Please report this scumbag to the police,punish him for what he has done to your DC.

I agree that this needs to be investigated by the bank and the police. I can understand that you and your DM are in shock and wish it hadn't happened and want the problem to just disappear, but covering up for him can't undo what he has done, it just protects him from the natural consequences of his actions and makes it more likely that he will continue.

If your children would be likely to inherit from your DM eventually, then its worth realising that even if she replaces the money he's stolen, they will still lose out financially when they came to inherit.

It is awful, and you must be in shock, be gentle with yourself but still do what needs to be done. I'm so sorry things have ended like this.

You need to call the police. Money in accounts that are 'in trust' for DC can only be spent on things directly benefiting the DC, and you have to be able to prove that if questioned.

Was your DP a trustee on the accounts? One or more adults have to be a trustee. If your DP was, then the bank probably weren't negligent in letting him take the money. If he wasn't, then they were.

I am a trustee on accounts for my DC. I only withdraw money for their school fees, and I document each withdrawal so that I can show what it's been spent on. I don't just do this because of my legal obligation to do so, I do it because I want to be completely clear about what I'm doing, so that I never mis-use their money even by mistake. I see managing their money as a great responsibility, and I am more careful with it than I am with my own (and I am not careless with my own).

Regardless of whether the bank was negligent, I think your DP needs to be prosecuted. You would be letting down your DC if you didn't do that. He also needs to pay back the money, with interest. I think it will be up to him to 'prove' that he spent the money for their benefit (which obviously he won't be able to).

You need to separate your financial affairs completely and irrevocably and get him out of your life as far as is possible.

undeciided I don't tink it was a legal trust. It is just a term that building societies use for childrens accounts. Not that it makes it any less horrifying but...

Just that he thinks this is ok ! I hope you're ok OP

Quietlysuggests For some reason this thread went in funny places. People pilled on top of people to get mad at you for daring to have a mother who could cover the stolen money. People hate anyone with money, they think it makes all others problems vanish.

I think that's completely unfair.
I disagree with your assessment that people hate anyone with money and I think people are pleased that the OP has family who will support and help her through this horrible time.
Rather than saying people shouldn't have money, people are saying that if the DGM wants to gift money to the children that should increase what was already theirs, so that doesn't square up does it.

Where criticism comes in is outrage that this man has stolen from his own children having previously stolen from his wife and on top of that is going to get away with his crime. Covering the children's lost money smacks more of being glad to see the back of him and keep everything quiet, rather than seeing some form of justice (even if that justice is only a formal complaint and police report rather than regaining the stolen money)
There is the further issue of the bank not protecting the children's money when it had been deposited in an account set up very clearly to safeguard it for them.

I previously acknowledged that there may be more to all of this than the OP wants to put on a public forum, and we all want to see the best resolution for the family that there can be - just that there are varying opinions of how that can be achieved, which is surely the point of posting here, to see what people think?