'D'P has stolen all the DC's money

[thatwasprettylow]

Namechanged for this - I'd appreciate some advice, please. I'll try not to dripfeed but it's a long story so I'll have to annotate.

Basically, DP has a long history of being utterly hopeless with money. He seems totally incapable of spending money on things like bills, and squanders it on I know not what, to the extent that I've wondered if he's got a gambling addiction or something that I don't know about. This hasn't been helped by the fact that his work over the last few years has been really erratic. We've been really struggling money-wise for a few years now.

Last week I went to the bank to pay in some money that the children were given for Christmas and DS's January birthday and was told that DS's account had been closed. I assumed that the bank had just screwed up somehow, as the DC's accounts are Trust accounts and are supposed to require 3 signatures (DP's mine and my DMum's) for any withdrawals. The woman from the bank poked about a bit and said she'd ring me back, but didn't, so I asked my DMum to pop in when she was passing and see if they had sorted it.

A few days later, last Thursday, 'D'P 'confessed' to me that he somehow linked his account online to the DS's account and has, over a period of time, drained DS's account and spent all the money (about 10k). The bank had contacted him and warned him that we were inquiring about it. I told him to leave the house and called the bank, who confirmed that he has also drained DD's account.

I can't believe he's done this - I have no idea what to say to him or to the DCs, who are still quite little (6 and 2). Apart from that, I need to sort out logistics, as DP usually does the childcare while I'm at work.

He has sent me a text saying 'please can we resolve this?', as if a quick chat will sort it out. I don't want to see him - I just don't think there's anything he can say to excuse this.

Well i hope you are at least going into the Bank today to find out how he accessed an account that needs three signatures??

It's all very well that for your mother 10k is easily repayable, it completely misses the point. For most people it's a fortune that he readily stole from his own children.

completely understand why reporting him seems huge and scary and strange. But the thing is, it is NOT 'only money'. It was up to £10k in just 6 years for one child - by the time he reaches 18, that sum has grown and that's his uni education or his first house. A car plus driving lessons. A huge piece of independence, a fantastic step along the way. An amazing opportunity for this child that his father has recklessly, selfishly and deceitfully squandered.

People are saying this money may be recoverable through the bank if it is dealt with properly - surely that is worth investigating at least?

I would question how beneficial it really is for your children to have a relationship with a father who steals from them and goes unpunished because how will you ever trust him not to do something like this again when there are no consequences for him? And does he deserve a relationship with them given how badly he has betrayed them?

Where was all the money going to? It could be that he has a load of debts already and was using the children's money to keep up repayments.

The bank is legally obliged to go to the police in any case, no matter what the OP wants. It's out of her hands.

I can completely understand why you might not want to go to the police.It's not as if you're ever going to have any financial dealings with him again after this. Some of the posters on here need to have a bit more empathy at this horrible position you've found yourself in and stop barracking you.
The bank will involve the police if they think it's fraud. He needs to at least explain truthfully what he has spent the money on whether he has a gambling problem or he just frittered it away.

Personally, I think (when able to understand) the children should know exactly what their father's done. And I really don't think he should be allowed to get away with it. What if he finds a way of doing it again to someone else?

I can completely understand why you might not want to go to the police. It's not as if you're ever going to have any financial dealings with him again after this

No-one knows this. Who knows what else he might try?

What if he does this to someone else? Because if you will steal from a 2 yo and a 6 yo you'll steal from old people or anyone else.

I take the view that either you stand up against this behaviour and do not tolerate it, or you condone it and leave him free to do it to someone else.

I'm going to go against the flow here and say that you should check a few things before contacting the police. Read the post by AliceinWinterWonderland (Sun 09-Feb-14 22:29:04):

The bank finally admitted fault as they ignored a number of red flags on the account activity, and repaid all the money to her. Then they made a police report for fraud against my sister, with the bank being the victim.

Arrange a meeting with the bank manager (or someone senior when they fob you off). Ask the bank person if they are going to make arrangements for the money to be refunded. When they say something other than an immediate yes, ask them for an address to which you are to make a written complaint and you will be doing this so that they will provide you with a written explanation of what happened. You can mention that you'll be using the written explanation in making a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). You really want to get them to put their excuses in writing, it will focus their minds.

Phone the FOS today (they're helpful) and ask them whether involving the police now will have an impact on whether they can get involved. Getting the FOS involved will maximise your chances of getting some money back.

Don't bother with call centres, in the case of serious complaints they have no authority and their job is to stall you.

Surely the children should be told in an age-appropriate fashion reasonably soon or daddy might reappear in a few years time with a sob story and scam them again?

it's morally wrong to let him get away with this. He has shown no respect or care for his children -why should he walk away with no consequences?

And if their DGM has £15k spare she can add that to the original sum if she so wishes, not fund this man's lifestyle.

He can still be in their lives but he needs to face up to what he has done and there needs to be some record of it.

Hi, really sorry this has happened. Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if repeating stuff. My understanding is (as an ex banker) - the bank has to pay the children back as a) they haven't followed the signatory instructions on the mandate completed when you opened the account, and b) they didn't have the correct security in place so sole internet access/withdrawals was allowed. Trust accounts don't usually allow withdrawals anyway until child is 18 so this should have been flagged sooner? The onus is then on the bank to get police involved to get money back/prosecute - though they may not want adverse publicity that shows their funds are not secure... You need to make an appointment with a manager and demand to know what is being done and when. I wouldn't tell the children as too small to be involved in this and may worry too much. Good luck.

The money was in trust / belonged to your children.

Op to allow another trustee to take the money you and your dm would also be complicit in the theft. You need to go to the police.

The bank because of their lax security to allow your p to access the account on line is at fault and once the police are involved the bank would have to replace the money. Whether or not your p. has any assets is of no concern to you to, get the money back this would be between the bank and your p.

As for wanting your dc to have contact with their father. I can only say please grow up. Do you really think he will be a supporting influence in their lives for ever more. Even if he stuck around do you really believe he would keep his hands off their money. It might only be £15k now but what would happen if you or your dm died and left them a large sum of money. Do you really think he could keep his hands off ?

Forget what the neighbours say you do need to go to the police to keep a clear conscience. What happens if he tries this out on someone else who cannot write off a large sum of money and she ends up losing her home and dc because of it. What happens if in the future he is investigated and it comes to light that you were complicit in illegally with drawing funds from a trust that was not yours. Both yourself and your mother would have more problems than just what the neighbours are gossiping about.

The Op is not a fool, she has chucked him out. It's a fairly good bet that there wouldn't be any situation where she would knowingly let her OP have anything to do with her finances again.

What is it with all the posts attacking the OP?

I'm completely with the post by GlaikitFizzog on the previous page and her call for posters to put down the pitchforks.

Nauticant speaks sense, please read her post Op.

OPs involvement with the police really does hinge on whether the bank refunds the money. If the bank do so the police won't take her complaint as she is no longer the victim. And there is no guarantee the bank will make a report to police, this will be dealt with at a national level, not by the individual branch. A lot of fraud goes unreported and is swallowed up into the banks profits.

Xpost nauticant :)

I think it's a real shame that not only have you children got a parent that is a thief but also, another parent that values her reputation and a scumbags feelings more than the well being of her children.

You need to call the police. Now.

This is terrible, what a scumbag.
OP you must report this , in some ways it's not really your revision to make. If you don't want to report a theft from yourself that's fine but this isn't your money he has taken - it's the children's are you owe it to them to do something about it.
The bank might have to refund if they have cocked up so they might get the money back.
Also, if he has stolen from his family why would t he do it agan? As your children grow up they will need to know he can't be trusted with money or he will steal from them again.
Lastly I don't believe he drained these accounts online. I don't think that children's accounts held on trust can have online banking so he has accessed this money another ( more devious way)
Lastly ( again) I don't wish to be harsh but if you let him get away with this you are actually complicit in denying your children their money.

OPs involvement with the police really does hinge on whether the bank refunds the money. If the bank do so the police won't take her complaint as she is no longer the victim.

This is correct. And that will move the OP from the position of victim to witness, as the bank will then be the victim as they will be out the money. And part of that also hinges on precisely how he got the money as well. Although to be fair, if a bank employee has been involved in any way, the bank will most likely press charges and sack the employee.

If he's accessed the account unlawfully through an IT route, the bank will most likely jump on it with both feet, as they will use him as an example. Again, out of the OP's hands.

The OP may also be advised by the bank that she may have to sign a form stating she was unaware of his actions before they refund the money. That will then be used against him for legal purposes.

Yes it's an awful sickening position to be in - and of course we have empathy and a huge amount of sympathy.

But why not involve the police ? .... if they think there's a case to be answered then they'll take the necessary steps, and the point of pursuing a case isn't just about recovering the money (it sounds as if there's a real chance the bank would be liable to replace it in the first instance anyway) but about punishing the criminal. Don't get sidetracked because some people see this as some sort of spiteful revenge ..... punishment is supposed to act as a shock and as a deterrent. So far, he's got away with it - so what's to stop him carrying on (maybe with another poor unsuspecting family in the future, or indeed with his own kids when they get older) if past experience has so far taught him that it's okay to thieve because he's always "forgiven" and he never has to face up to the consequences of his actions.

By doing nothing, this man's mindset isn't going to change. His desire to be totally and utterly selfish and self indulgent supercedes all other considerations. A metaphorical and well deserved kick up the backside may just bring him to his senses and make him realise what a repulsively low thing it is he's done - and that shame and that guilt might just stop him doing it again.

Your children could potentially be his victims again (as other unfortunate posters have testified) once they're old enough for him to ask for a "loan". Maybe, nothing will change his attitude or prick his conscience - but if you do nothing then that's a dead cert whereas the impact of a charge and conviction might have some effect and go some way to protecting your kids in the future.

Please don't be swayed by the "shame" you anticipate - for either yourself or your children - if and when the "story" gets out. I can't believe that however small your community is people would be anything but supportive and sympathetic if they get wind of any gossip. You have nothing to reproach yourself for and I can't fathom how this incident could possibly be twisted to reflect badly on you.

I am very very sorry you find yourself here ....

At this point, the bank is probably frantically investigating this situation. They have her phone call stating the initial problem of money being gone, and now they are trying to find out how it was removed. The result of that investigation will most likely then trigger their fraud department to ring police and make a report, whilst wrangling with the OP about refunding the money.

Nauticant I think people are most annoyed about the laissez faire attitude that the op has with regards to the theft from her children, that her dm could just replace the money and say no more about it and seems more upset about what others will say. That the op wants a crime against her children swept under the carpet and what most annoyed me was that she wanted her p. to still have contact with the dc leaving them open to more thefts by their df in the future.

We raise our children to be equipped to recognise dangerous situations yet the op is quite happy to let her children be in a position where they di not have all the facts and could be manipulated into handing over / stolen from them their future.

I doubt that it's a "laissez faire attitude" from the OP, as much as still trying to get her head around it and panicking over not only the shit storm it was start up but all the hassle from family (as no doubt some will not want her to report it).

When my sister stole from my parents, my mother was very stressed about reporting it. She didn't want her daughter to end up in jail, but in the end she did report it. My sister is now in prison, and will be for a few more years (admittedly she didn't help matters by fleeing).

A lot of the same things going on here - small community, family involvement, fair amount of money involved. And it wasn't just my mother's money, it was my fathers too (although he wasn't aware of it as he was in a coma and then mentally not capable of understanding it after he came out of coma so she didn't tell him).

As I said, give the OP a chance to get more information from the bank. For all she knows, the bank may have already contacted the police.

it will start up.. not was... typo

Leave off the OP, people, she needs support not hysteria. I wouldn't report my DH for fraud over £15k either as he would lose his work and his ability to pay child maintenance. The OP may have other reasons and it is hardly urgent at the moment. Going to the police is not be the thing that will determine whether or not she gets the money back.

It sounds as though the online transfers that were made out of the childrens' accounts were to a different bank - does anyone know whether there is some inter-bank protocol in cases of alleged fraud that would enable the original bank to get info from the husband's bank?

I agree with PerfectStorm and CinnabarRed

OP try to recover the money for your DCs. £12k+ is not peanuts.

I would also advise to go into a larger different branch of the bank where your DCs accounts. Explain the situation to the manager re. small town bank/friends of your P? Get and internal investigation up and running.

You can only go to the financial ombudsman once the bank themselves have investigated and reached a conclusion - if you're not happy with it.

He's taken his passport - I wouldn't be surprised if he's already out of the country.