How do I respond to this email from DH?

[catgirl1976]

DH and I have some problems. I think a few people on here might remember some of them and some of MN have the strong opinion that DH is not good for me.

However, I do love him. But I am exhausted and unhappy.

I tried to talk to him last night and this morning found the email below in my inbox.

I just don't know how to reply, or what I want. Well I do. I want things back the way they were and I want a partner.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should respond?

Hello Cat,

It guts me to see you so unhappy. It really wasn't the intention. You see there was a time when we had fun and I thought it rocked. So much so I didn't want anything to interrupt that. But you wanted a baby and reluctantly I acquiesced. Thank the stars I did. Look at DS! He is incredible and amazing.

That doesn't help you though. (Actually it should but lets move on from that).

You are right, I have changed. I have grown older, and also commercially very cynical. My entire life I have been looking for happiness, I have actually found it in our DS. I never expected this and certainly didn't ask for it, but he has had a profound effect on my outlook on life.

Its a crime that you were forced (in part by me I guess) back to work so early. I do agree you have drawn the shitty end of a long stick. The answer is simple, that being get a new job. However I fear you will be unhappy wherever you are. Certainly XX despite its shortcomings is far better than any company I have had the grace to work for. I also admit that's not saying much.

You are 100% Correct in that I could do more around the house. I hope you acknowledge the increased effort I have been putting into this. An example would be tidying up even though I have DS. Yes I could do more, but I am sure you can relate to the amount of demands he makes on one and given that its easy to procrastinate. However that said I will increase my productivity and I hope it makes life easier for you.

For me though the nub is that I feel as out of place as you do. I have said repeatedly that I would love to do your job, hell I have even advised you on it (Not that you really need it, you are more than competent, I was just trying to help). The fact of the matter is that at the ripe old age of forty I have no other trade than selling. Between you, me and the gatepost, I cannot and will not return to the environment that I used to inhabit. I cant. Call it burnt out, mid life crisis, or laziness. I simply cannot do that anymore. As I have stated, i would rather clean toilets.

Maybe I should clean toilets. It would be fairer of course to contribute financially. However the one thing that does bring me a modicum of prestige is DS. I have worked so hard (and enjoyed it, a luxury you don't have in your vocation) to help and develop him. I think I am just in being proud of my Son, regardless of bias.

You are right, I do need friends and interests outside this house. However in my experience the Muppets I worked with tended to be the opposite of my outlook in every way. A notable exception would be XX. That said I don't expect to find many “XX's” in any job I stand a snowballs chance of getting.

I can see how hard you are working and pushing yourself. Its obvious that the gas tank it empty and its not sustainable. I will do whatever I can to help, with recourse to the above. I cannot fix your career.

I cannot be the the dude you fell in love with either. I'm older, slower (still quick) and jaded. But the two aspects of my life where I raise a smile are (in order) TDS and you. You are exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally. Its not surprising give the amount of responsibility on your shoulders. It means everything to me to be able to help, but DS means everything to me too, and I want to have a real, fundamental impact on him and be the father I never had. In a nutshell that means forsaking everything for him.

I don't want to forsake you though. However if we are at the point where you simply don't see why you married me, or that dude that looked you up (and down) in halls then I get it. I am not a parasite and will bow out with as much honour as I can muster.

I love you and always will, but I cant stand seeing you this unhappy. I do believe we can grow from this position, however I respect your feelings too and If that isn't a decision you subscribe to I understand.

I Love you, and pray that is enough.

x

Don't worry about worrying us.

I'm sure your husband will be on good behaviour for a while. I hope you won't be placated by it again. His emails this week have revealed what he really thinks and I am still convinced he is just setting up a narrative where he's a perfect husband and father.

I think it's extremely important that you get counselling and start working out how to extricate yourself from this relationship. No doubt because of how you grew up, this kind of roller coaster relationship must have a certain natural feel to it. But it is extremely damaging to both you and your son, and your husband has shown he's capable of violence.

I'm sorry to ape that dickhead's language, but the answer really is simple: you have to leave him. Everything else all your emotions and explanations and frustrations is just making everything more complicated than it needs to be.

If you stay, you will be miserable for the rest of your life, and your son will just repeat these damaging dynamics.
If you leave, you will be sad for a short time, but then you will have a true chance at happiness and peace.

It really is a no brainer. If you can't see that, then please please please go to counseling and get some help to clear your eyes.

Tbh the housework and cooking is a bit of a distraction here, isn't it (though obviously his crapness in this respect is v. annoying and demonstrates yet again how selfish he is). The key point is that he won't even open up for discussion the possibility that he might:

1. apply for a full or part time job of any description

OR

1. look after your DS all week so you can avoid nursery fees.

Twat.

I do worry that the whole 'get a job or do full-time childcare' argument isn't quite right and is distracting from the bigger picture here.

The bigger picture, from this thread and others, is that your DH seems lazy and manipulative. Yes, he is suffering from depression and that can't be underestimated, but he seems unwilling to seek real help for this problem. His emails are undeniably nasty and his unwillingness to support you or even acknowledge the pressure you are under is disgraceful.

However, if you turn this slightly on its head, there will be plenty of SAHMs who put their toddlers into childcare during the day too, for the experience, for socialising, for a break for them.

If finances are not the issue - and I don't get the impression that they are - then in some ways the childcare/work is not an issue apart from how it seems to affecting your DH's self-esteem and mental health.

You would rarely see a thread on MN telling a SAHM to stop putting their DC in nursery and go and get a job if their DH was the main earner.

I don't mean any of that to defend any of his actions as I think his attitude towards and treatment of catgirl is despicable. I just think the childcare and work issue isn't actually the issue.

I see your point, Thurlow, but a few of the OP's comments suggested that finances were on the tight side, though not critically so.

Really I was drawing attention to his absolute refusal to discuss different ways of doing things, rather than to his not having a job/doing full-time childcare per se. If that makes sense!

I know. I'm not defending him because I agree with every other comment on this thread. I just think that occasionally a man staying at home is seen in a different light to a woman staying at home.

If finances are tight, though, and he is refusing to get a job because none of them are good enough for him...

I just think that occasionally a man staying at home is seen in a different light to a woman staying at home.

But here, on this thread, is the place where you need to do the "devil's advocate" reverse the genders thing?

Really?

I didn't mean it in a devils advocate way, and apologies if it came across that way. I was actually thinking, like some other posters have been, that catgirl's husband is making some sort of play in case of separation, on which case I was thinking that him being in a situation that.many sahm's are is not part of the blame. If that makes any sense? But again, apologies that I didn't explain it that way.

I think catgirl has a problem with him not fully taking on the sahd role. As I said earlier I know a couple of middle aged men who have dropped out of the workforce and given up working (different to a family actively deciding the father would be best to stay at home).

However the difference is that they have taken on the lion's share of housework/childcare (even if the children are in childcare/school some of the time). I don't think many men/women would be happy to be the breadwinner and do the bulk of childcare/housework while the partner at home does nothing except leisure.

So he cooked a meal and cleaned. Big deal.
He's done that before hasn't he, just when you've got to the end of your tether.
Sorry Cat, but you do seem so easily persuaded as soon as he does a 'nice' thing.
I hope counselling helps, is he going too?

I think catgirl has a problem with him not fully taking on the sahd role

I don't.

He's not a sahd - that is such a false equivalence to make. He's pretty much a lodger that pays his rent and board by doing a bit of childcare and cooking the odd meal.

He's a lazy bastard and he's never, ever going to be anything other than a lazy bastard.

You get the same advice on every thread you post.

He. Won't. Change.

What an irritating fucking email! Is this how he talks all the time? Like he's trying to appease an irate client by paying lip service but not actually commiting to anything?!

I agree. He's not a SAHD. He's a cock lodger.

Sorry for misunderstanding, Thurlow :)

CatGirl, passing you over some balls of steel to help you end this seriously bad relationship, it is dragging you so far down you're not able to see the light anymore.

As someone who has never read any of your other threads, I will just add my voice to the overwhelming consensus on here. This man is no good. Get away from him.Really, you must, for the sake of your child. He is manipulative, narcissistic and has MH problems which he is not addressing.

Please make the time to see a kick-ass divorce lawyer who will ensure you don't lose custody of your son before you do anything else at all.

I also think he may be laying evidence in anticipation of a divorce. He wants to seem reasonable.

Have you noticed most of the paragraphs in his emails start with "I" .
That wont change.

I think the kick ass lawyer would be money well spent.

It has been a while since we 'chatted' but sadly I can see us having this conversation on & off forever more if you stay with him :(

You know he's an energy sapping bloke who looks to you to run his life and make His World A Better Place whilst doing Fuck ALL to make yours or DS's any better.

He's a lazy SOB who just wants to sit back, have you do it all and claim the credit for DS being the little delight he is - fuck that - DS is awesome in spite of his father, not because of it - BUT (as I have said before) that wont last much longer, before long he will be copying all of DH's habits then you will have two of them at it :(

He has shown you who he is - please listen
x

PS: A father who is a SAHD doing SAHP 'stuff' ie - looking after the children and running the home, might have a chance of getting more than 50/50 shared care, but this waste of space wouldn't, so don't let that stop you.

Chipping, I don't think he would get more than 50/50 either given he doesn't look after the DS full time. Legal advice always good tho.

Look. Assume you can afford a little extra childcare (or get an aupair) and you work and you can take care of your children. In the event you do divorce, you really have nothing top worry about.

Its really easy to become complacent and think oh! He's changed because he cooked a nice meal.... Until the next time, and you end up posting here again. It cuts deeper every time. It hurts more and more. Can you say you really respect your dh? Because if the answer is no, you're in a relationship where you're feeling short changed and where there is no mutual respect and the resentment eats. It sounds horrid but that's the desperation you feel.

We are always. going to be here if u need us but unless he gets a job or completely steps up on the sahd front (which means you are actually backing off, undo the micro managing and letting him take on the domestics fully), then I'll be expecting to hear from you about this exact same issue again.

I don't know how old you are or if your dh has a nice golden nest egg of a pension? Because if you both don't have a nice tidy pension, just realise your dh will be willingly out of work for a very long time, even after the kids have grown up. You fine with that?

My cocklodger pretended he had a business for decades (he did about 20 days work a year, always at weekends). Without money from me we'd have been sunk. I kept thinking he was going to develop the business...so was happy that NI was paid out of our joint account (for years we had no individual accounts, till I started to wake up and smell the coffee). As he made so little money, the NI was only Class 2, so a fairly small amount of money, and it will secure him his state pension.

The CB was always paid to me, so I had the benefit of Home Responsibility Protection while not working with DCs under 16 (those were the days!) I'm not sure what has replaced HRP, nor what the DC age rules are these days - but because of this, my question is...

who claims the CB? I hope it is you cat

To be fair, the OP knows deep down everything that everyone says is true but she doesn't want to hear it. One day a switch will go off and she will realise that she is getting nothing out of the relationship and will move on. Until she gets there of her own accord, nothing anyone says will make her see sense. She kind of has to exhaust every possibility that he means what he says, which he doesn't, until she reaches rock bottom so far as the relationship goes. I have BTDT unfortunately, it is just the way some people work and looking back I should have ended it a long while before I did. I rationalise this by thinking I gave him, the relationship, every chance, there was nothing more I could do. I'm not sure when the OP will reach that point but she will get there in the end no doubt.