How do I respond to this email from DH?

[catgirl1976]

DH and I have some problems. I think a few people on here might remember some of them and some of MN have the strong opinion that DH is not good for me.

However, I do love him. But I am exhausted and unhappy.

I tried to talk to him last night and this morning found the email below in my inbox.

I just don't know how to reply, or what I want. Well I do. I want things back the way they were and I want a partner.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should respond?

Hello Cat,

It guts me to see you so unhappy. It really wasn't the intention. You see there was a time when we had fun and I thought it rocked. So much so I didn't want anything to interrupt that. But you wanted a baby and reluctantly I acquiesced. Thank the stars I did. Look at DS! He is incredible and amazing.

That doesn't help you though. (Actually it should but lets move on from that).

You are right, I have changed. I have grown older, and also commercially very cynical. My entire life I have been looking for happiness, I have actually found it in our DS. I never expected this and certainly didn't ask for it, but he has had a profound effect on my outlook on life.

Its a crime that you were forced (in part by me I guess) back to work so early. I do agree you have drawn the shitty end of a long stick. The answer is simple, that being get a new job. However I fear you will be unhappy wherever you are. Certainly XX despite its shortcomings is far better than any company I have had the grace to work for. I also admit that's not saying much.

You are 100% Correct in that I could do more around the house. I hope you acknowledge the increased effort I have been putting into this. An example would be tidying up even though I have DS. Yes I could do more, but I am sure you can relate to the amount of demands he makes on one and given that its easy to procrastinate. However that said I will increase my productivity and I hope it makes life easier for you.

For me though the nub is that I feel as out of place as you do. I have said repeatedly that I would love to do your job, hell I have even advised you on it (Not that you really need it, you are more than competent, I was just trying to help). The fact of the matter is that at the ripe old age of forty I have no other trade than selling. Between you, me and the gatepost, I cannot and will not return to the environment that I used to inhabit. I cant. Call it burnt out, mid life crisis, or laziness. I simply cannot do that anymore. As I have stated, i would rather clean toilets.

Maybe I should clean toilets. It would be fairer of course to contribute financially. However the one thing that does bring me a modicum of prestige is DS. I have worked so hard (and enjoyed it, a luxury you don't have in your vocation) to help and develop him. I think I am just in being proud of my Son, regardless of bias.

You are right, I do need friends and interests outside this house. However in my experience the Muppets I worked with tended to be the opposite of my outlook in every way. A notable exception would be XX. That said I don't expect to find many “XX's” in any job I stand a snowballs chance of getting.

I can see how hard you are working and pushing yourself. Its obvious that the gas tank it empty and its not sustainable. I will do whatever I can to help, with recourse to the above. I cannot fix your career.

I cannot be the the dude you fell in love with either. I'm older, slower (still quick) and jaded. But the two aspects of my life where I raise a smile are (in order) TDS and you. You are exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally. Its not surprising give the amount of responsibility on your shoulders. It means everything to me to be able to help, but DS means everything to me too, and I want to have a real, fundamental impact on him and be the father I never had. In a nutshell that means forsaking everything for him.

I don't want to forsake you though. However if we are at the point where you simply don't see why you married me, or that dude that looked you up (and down) in halls then I get it. I am not a parasite and will bow out with as much honour as I can muster.

I love you and always will, but I cant stand seeing you this unhappy. I do believe we can grow from this position, however I respect your feelings too and If that isn't a decision you subscribe to I understand.

I Love you, and pray that is enough.

x

Delurking - I've read many of your threads OP, worried about you from time to time and searched for your name to see if you are ok. I'm sorry to say that I think your husband is currently a waste of space. It might be salvagable but not without a separation.

I think it is time to see a solicitor and make a plan.
I think it is time to have an economy drive and disconnect the home internet (or take a vital component to work with you in your handbag). He can jobsearch from the local library.
I think that not only is this thread highly searchable, you also have photos of all of you on your profile and in anticipation of the legal battle I think you are going to have, I think you should do some housekeeping asap.

I agree with what Armadale and Join are saying.

How about a short reply:

'I don't understand your comment about improving the finances being your initiative - what do you mean? You know that you have made no financial contribution for the last x years and also make no contribution to organising anything relating to finances - remembering bills, sorting bank stuff - I do it all! That's part of the problem. If you're referring to your one suggestion that we take out money in cash for the week - then no, that does not count as you 'improving' finances or managing stuff in any way. Like I said, if you DID take any responsibility there, things would be better.'

It might be very useful to have this sort of reply ready to hand.

I don't mean to say it would be easy and he is simply going to walk away from cat and their son. I just meant it as in she is doing everything already, and to add some support that if she does start thinking about doing something drastic, it doesn't sound as if her day-to-day life will change that much.

Leave this man. Firstly he sounds like a lazy waste of space father and freeloader. Secondly, what does it say about your relationship if he has to email you about something so important?

Get legal advice and get out.

He said in his last reply, 'he has it bad too'. How?

He says he can't fix everything. He can actually pull his weight at home and do that NOW!

He says he's 40 and can't go back to sales. I can appreciate that, I'm 40 and I can't go back to my previous job either. But I'm going to retrain and am actively trying to carve out a new start for myself after being a SAHM. It's a scarey thought as I haven't been employed for 13 years (have done other things though). I'll be honest, at first I blamed DH and the needs if our home on not going back. I've come to realise that there are no barriers and that really, because it's so easy being a SAHM at this stage, I'm actually now unemployed and that's given me the kick up the arse I need to progress things. Really scarey though as I have nobody to blame if I can't find work, can't get a job.

As far as the cleaning toilets thing goes, I too feel like that as I ran my own dept and office pre-DD, and my pride is taking a massive hit because I am only going to find entry level minimum wage positions now and am not the bankable asset I once was. My pride has taken a massive hit and I can relate to your DH on this.

I'm lucky, my DH understands all of this and is helping to boost my confidence and morale, which is what your DH is asking for. Yes you've got every right to blame him and be happy, but tbh I think even if he did intend to put things right, he's right in that he'd need emotional support and ideas to do so as he hasn't had to be self reliant in such a long time. He's admitted this too in his emails, admitted he's let things slide but it's hard to climb out of. Could he do that alone? All I can say is that whatever happens in my situation, my DH's support will give me the edge and make me better able to invest in the next 30 years of my working life so I can have another career.

I'm just grateful that having hit 40, realised my life is fulfilling enough, I have a good strong marriage and a supportive husband who respects what I have done as a SAHM. I don't think I could cope if I thought he saw me as a freeloading waste of space. If your DH does have any integrity, he'll be feeling more down than he ever has before. You need to be very clear on what he needs to do to fix things, be it a SAHD who actually pulls his weight around the house and doesn't palm his child off into child care shille he sits in his arse, or training to get a new career when he returns to work, or retuning to work now in whatever he can find no matter how beneath him that may feel to him. He's right, in that you need to know what you want from him and then you both support each other to achieve what needs to be done which means you will need to help him.

If you think his issues don't stem from lack of self esteem and he's just a freeloading lazy fuckeit them your better off ditching him.

*ive not read previous threads of yours, so don't know the backstory, only what I've read here.

I agree with Joysmum

I agree with oscar.

Why doesn't he want to contribute to family life and the finances? Why does he think it's okay for you to carry the burden.

He's jealous of you, I think, and wants to drag you down.

I agree with you that the email to and fro isn't helping, especially as he's using sales speak to say nothing at all with maximum verbosity.

Now is the time for getting your ducks in a row, sadly. Even if it doesn't come to it, you really need to prepare for the worst. Sort out full time childcare for your DS, you need to remove that from your H sharpish.

Use the very good post upthread as a reference point, say that you're doing it to help him get get back to work/his depression.

I'm so glad you're not falling for his spiel, catgirl. Look after yourself

Two days a week is as much as he can cope with? That's what he'd get as NRP, though...

He doesn't even clean his own bastard toilet.

I have so much contempt for this man.

Please stop putting things in black and white. "We can discuss this tonight, after I've done tea/bath/story/bed/washing up/wiping down as usual".

The difference is Joysmum is that you are trying to get a job, and a new start.

I'm also betting Joysmum you don't sit on backside not doing anything all day every day either. And thats the difference. OP husband is doing the bare mimium, and maybe not even that. He sitting doing what wants, he wont get a job, he wont go to the doctor and get help with his depression to improve not only his life but everyone around him.

I don't understand how anyone can read his emails and hear of this situation and encourage you to be with him!

I just have never heard of a parent who looks after his child for just two days a week and does nothing for the other five, a parent who does fuck all to the running of the household. He is not a sahp he is a freeloading scumbag.

You need legal advice and stop the pointless email exchanges.

catgirl I read your DH's first e-mail to my DH, and his reaction was "What a selfish, condescending, patronising arse. If I was her I would reply with if you wish to communicate with me again do so through my solicitor." I have actually cleaned it up a bit, there were some choice expletives, neither he nor I could believe he actually wrote that he "acquiesed" to your desire to have a child, nor that he put your child above you in his list of priorities (with himself very obviously his No.1 priority). As with everyone else who has posted on here, with the exception of one or two, we were astounded by your situation and your DH's behaviour.

You say he is very good at sales, and indeed he appears to be as he is doing the salesman technique of overcoming your objections in order to sell to you.

I also feel he has no male or female friends because he knows that if he outlined your circumstances to them he would elicit criticism and possibly the kind of reaction of my DH and that would never do as he can't possibly be wrong, can he? He then covers himself and his opinions by declaring himself superior to everyone.

You have had some really excellent advice on this thread, please, please, be strong you and your son are worth so much more than this.

This might be a bit ranty but I am cross on your behalf. Awful email from him. Especially that last comment 'I love you and pray that is enough'.

Love. is. Not. Enough.

What he loves you because no other woman would put up with his bs? He loves you therefore that's fine and you have to embrace all of him and his crap behaviour? Love should get the bills paid and the house clean? Love means he doesn't have to go clean toilets? No one should be too proud to get off their rear ends and provide for the family in some way. In the time he took to write that waffle which basically said 'I'm not going to change' he could have written his cv, sent a job ad or read the papers to find something!

What rubbish. He is not a fantastic father. What example is he setting for your ds? That it's OK for men to sit around and let the women chase around and do all the work? I thought you were far too nice in your email.

cat you sound lovely and deserve better. His depression is not an excuse. I wouldn't even reply to that email. I would get some counselling to figure out what it is YOU want not what he wants. He has nothing without you.

So sorry my second to last paragraph sounded harsh against your drafted response which was not in my head and poorly written by me I was thinking about him rabbiting on about all he does for the son he seemed pressurised to have who he has 2 days a week! What cheek!

for you and a weekend spa break with your dearest friends to have a break is in order.

Really go with Armadale, get legal advice. Make your son safe from residency. Make yourself safe from paying for it. Then plan your escape.

If he isn't planning to leave the. You should. This isn't going to get better

Love is not enough, yes.

Trouble is, he doesn't even love OP.

He's perfectly happy to see her work unitl she's ill. He's used her, bullied her, exploited her in order to get a perfectly lazy and perfectly facilitated lifestyle. He tells her he loves her in best salesman patter because that's his JOB, it's how he makes a living. Flattering and bullshitting someone else into supporting him. He doesn't love OP so the sooner she really, REALLY realises that and starts not loving him, the better.

And one more on the depression point which I should have explained (pregnant brain). Just taking medication isn't enough. I've written in other places about the need to take responsibility for one's mental illnesses. If we aren't then the impact, not just on us but everyone around us, is devastating. It's playing out here for you I think.

He needs to have cbt or some structured therapy to remove himself from the rut he's created in his life. Depression is horrible and it's very difficult, but it can be done in small steps. There is help available and he should be back to his Gp to get access to the support. To me it's unforgivable that he isn't accessing that which I think you mentioned early on in the thread? That should be a deal breaker. It's just not fair on you.

It's easy for my Dh to just do everything for me and I just don't help myself. But in a way he's enabling that. He really nags me and it helps. Also on some level I know that if I don't sort myself out its tough on him. Have you spoken to your h about his not getting further help? You can't carry him forever it is too exhausting for you and will build up resentment. He can get better, but he has to do it himself.

Reading your thread is making me think that my lot isn't so bad after all, my husband has been off sick initially with stress and then with depression for the majority of the last 3-4 years. The first year I could tell he was seriously stressed and did my best to take the pressure off him (he basically took to his bed for a year). Since then he has had numerous phased return to work's but always ends up off sick again. To be honest I'm surprised that his employers are still paying him but apparently they are (50% of his salary but given how long he's been off he's lucky to be getting that).

So I work full-time, my husband stays at home, DS1 is away at University, DS2 is 9 and so still at home. I get him up, dressed and give him breakfast, my husband takes him to school, takes him to his activities after school, does most of the laundry and cooks for them both (I'm trying to lose weight so have asked him not to cook for me). If any other housework is done he or his mother do it, I refuse unless we get to the point where I have no pairs of socks for work at which point I take great glee going through the laundry basket and putting on a load made up entirely of socks, pants and bras for him to sort out.

The difference is that I don't have a problem living in a house that looks like a bomb's hit it, I do what I want, when I want, I go out four nights a week to an MMA class and to the cinema alone regularly whilst my husband stays in with DS2. I'm also quite looking forward to the time when his employers stop paying him, my salary will just about cover all our expenses I think, I won't be able to afford any extra's but we should be able to cover the basics with some economies and if he thinks he's going to be getting a penny off me for trips to the bookies etc he's got a nasty surprise coming. I think at that point he'll finally manage to get a new job or he'll realise I wasn't joking 2 years ago when I told him I wanted a divorce and will finally get out!

bruno I agree totally. I don't think he understands or wants to understand what being in a loving relationship actually means. Respect and consideration for your oh not freeloading off them and refusing medical help to improve his depression. Hope she can secure custody and make an escape plan.

I keep re-reading his emails and getting more annoyed. Why is he writing in that really pretentious manner? He doesn't speak like that, so why write it? It's not a fucking blog, or a fucking entry to a short story competition it's an e-mail to your wife you fuckhead.

Anger is good catgirl. Hang onto it

I LIKE your anger, OP!

I'm glad you're annoyed. I'm furious on your behalf.

fuckhead - brilliant

Call it him when you get home

It's quite the most pompous self-indulgent email I have read for a long time.