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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mistlethrush · 10/10/2013 08:46

Yes, hope things go well over the next days. Do let us know when you can how things are going.

AndMiffyWentToSleep · 10/10/2013 12:16

Good luck, Waves, hope you're doing ok.

Jux · 10/10/2013 12:55

Good luck, Waves.

Twunt, pay up you parsimonious git.

PyroclasticFlo · 10/10/2013 15:52

Good luck Waves, I'm glad the scales are finally falling from your eyes. Look after yourself xx

pointythings · 10/10/2013 20:26

Well done, it must have been a difficult decision to go no contact but it is so, so the right one. I think we all understand why you don't want to post on here for a while, we completely respect that.

All the very best with everything. Cake Flowers

Thumbwitch · 11/10/2013 04:02

Hello Waves, I am sorry that I let you disappear. I know I shouldn't have done so but I could see what was going to happen and I was getting frustrated, and I have no right to do so as it's not my life. Realising this, and that my posts were going to become less and less constructive, I let you fall off my Threads I'm On.

But I had forgotten this point! And today realised I hadn't seen you around for a bit so went looking.

I am sad that you are in a quandary again. I am really fucking angry for you that your selfish shit of a husband put you and your baby's lives at risk. I really really hope that you are both "clean" and safe.

I think I said it before but I'm going to say it again - the way you talk about your feelings for him, he is like a drug to you. You know that there is a risk, that there is a good chance you'll end up feeling like shit, but you still like the "high" too much to give it up. Would it help you to sort this out in your head if you liken him to a drug? Then you could go into voluntary "rehab"/detox to get him out of your system.

Re. the thing about people being inherently good or bad. I believe that babies are, when they're born, a largely blank canvas. They have some inherited traits, but these traits will either become exaggerated by their nurture, or subdued by it. Their upbringing will determine a lot of how their personality develops, but not all of it (the whole "nature vs nurture" debate).

There is a school of thought that says our experiences prior to age 4 set our core beliefs in ourself and the world; to some extent we can set more of them up until the age of 7 but after that, all our beliefs are peripheral to our core beliefs and radiate out from them. These core beliefs set our primary behaviour and responses to the world.
You have a core belief along the lines of "I need to be nice for people to love me" (It won't be exactly that, but something like that) and it was given to you by your mother.
Your H, somewhere along the line, has picked up the core belief along the lines of "I am the most important person in the world and I can do what I like, when I like, no matter who it hurts". (My BIL has this one too)

Core beliefs can be changed but not quickly and not that easily. Often there are layers and layers of peripheral beliefs around them, and these can be seemingly changed quite easily - but changing the peripheral beliefs will not be as lasting a change, because the core belief still affects them and can slowly swing them back, iyswim.

You are probably right that your H is, deep down, a nice person. But it's buried so far under the many layers of shit that it's going to take YEARS of therapy to unearth it sufficiently for it to become a normal behaviour for him, and he'd need to lose his core belief that only he matters. Do you honestly think it's likely that he would choose to do that? And he'd have to believe he needed to do it, not just give it lipservice. And what would be the benefits to him to change? So far, he's got on just fine. He would have to suddenly have a realisation that someone mattered more to him than himself - and I honestly do not believe that is going to happen, sorry.

You still need to do what is best for you AND your children, all of them. Having an utterly selfish "I-don't-care-who-I-hurt-so-long-as-I'm-okay" person in their lives is not going to be an enriching experience for them. And could imprint on Caspian as he gets bigger, something I can guarantee you wouldn't want for him.

I am glad that you have told him you want a divorce, and that you are going to do the detox again - I really really hope that some of what I have said helps you to stick to it - and I really really hope that it gets easier for you. xxxx

springybiffy · 13/10/2013 02:03

two days later, I have to add to thumbwitch's excellent post: the YEARS she mentions would mean you'd still be battling away at it in your retirement. Yes, that long. But I honestly don't think he's up for the long haul and has no intention of making significant changes - particularly significant changes over a long period of time. Someone posted upthread that you're back on your feet and richer and you're suddenly a more interesting proposition.

Plus, if he should be up for battling away with his core beliefs (unlikely), you'd be lacerated repeatedly up to your retirement (and beyond). And the kids would be, too. I'm sorry to pull them into it but it is as much about them as it is about you. You don't want them repeating the toxic inheritence you have been battling with - but they will if you stay with this toxic man.

Just out of interest: if a man treated your daughter the way you've been treated, would the same philosophies re core goodness hold for you? That everyone has to be given a chance (regardless what they had done)? I know that if a man treated my daughter the way he has treated you I'd hate him and want him dead (no point dressing it up, not saying I'd act on it, but the feelings would run deep and I'd want him anihilated). You probably can't give yourself the same love you'd give your daughter, hence vascilating when it is very clear to those of us outside what this 'man' is made of.

I hope you have kept to NC and your resolutation to divorce him. You would be doing the right thing. He may weedle and promise and cry and look heartfelt and charm but he is bad, bad, bad through and through. Sorry, lovely.

wavesandsmiles · 14/10/2013 09:18

I'm here, reading quietly still. Thank you all again for your messages which help me so much. Especially the comment about how would I feel if this was happening to DD.

I have to say a thank you as well. My little baby boy has been sleeping now between 10 and 12 hours solid every night for nearly 7 weeks now ( he is 11.5 weeks old) and my theory is that it is because every night he is tucked up in his grobag and one or other of the lovely blankets that were made for him by you. He's wrapped up in real love every night. I am grateful not just for the advice, sometimes hard to take opinions, but also for the very real love for my little family. We might not have a lot in RL, but this matters a lot.

Ah well, off to chase up the lawyers. Trying to focus on my darling DCs

OP posts:
shiningcadence · 14/10/2013 09:31

Yes waves, there's a lot of love for you and your lovely little family here. You are a fantastic mum and doing the best you possibly can for your children. Remember that if your resolve r.e. twunt weakens.

Good luck waves, we're all behind you.

PyroclasticFlo · 14/10/2013 09:45

Been thinking of you this weekend Waves and glad to hear you're still here. There is so much love and good will for you on MN, and so much support whenever you need it.

Great to hear that your little soul is sleeping so well, it's so important that you can get enough rest when you have so much to deal with.

Good luck, stay strong, and keep positive. xx

wavesandsmiles · 14/10/2013 11:16

I have maintenance.....

He reckons I'm rolling in it and that it is grossly unfair, but he's paid. Fact is I am NOT remotely rolling in it. I've sold everything of value this year since he left, and am now using the last to try to get the house a bit safer for a baby who will be mobile. The lounge is a disaster zone, talking exposed wires, pipes etc. I need to try to get it safe to keep my youngest safe. And I start my new job in December but won't get paid til the end of the month, so won't have money for anything other than a token nod to Christmas.
At least the baby won't be eating or understanding about gifts I guess. And he's off this weekend away to see a band. Apparently his sister has paid. But still, he's off on a weekend away. Good for some.

He hasn't changed at all. I am today utterly convinced of that (yes the NC thing broke down but tbh he's just shown his true colours again) And I think he is incapable of change. If my daughter was treated even half as badly as the way he'd treated me the only advice I would be giving her would be to run away at a million miles an hour and never look back. I'd also have hundreds of hugs for her, a safe place to stay if she needed and boxes and boxes of tissues. Time to try this whole loving myself, and respecting myself a bit harder, and trying to set my children a good example.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 14/10/2013 11:34

Hurrah for 10-12 hours sleep a night! Wish my 1yo would manage that! Wink

Yes indeed there is a lot of love for you, as embodied in the blankets and the messages of support; ok, some of it is "tough love" but it IS because we care.

I am glad you have got some money out of him and I am equally glad that the idea of someone treating your DD like this has helped you to change your thinking more - fantastic for you and for your DC (all of them!) Removing this pattern from their lives is a real gift; your DSs will not expect to behave like this and your DD will not think it's acceptable to be treated like this.

Keep going lovely - we're all behind you Thanks

AgathaF · 14/10/2013 13:13

Strange how you suddenly get maintenance after it being discussed on here.

"He reckons I'm rolling in it and that it is grossly unfair" - it wouldn't matter if you were rolling in it. He has a legal and moral responsibility to provide financial support for his child. He should be doing it and not complaining.

auntpetunia · 14/10/2013 18:19

Woo glad the maintenance has come through …very coincidental that it happens after its discussed here!

Glad you're going to love yourself, keep going we all know you can do it. You are always in my thoughts especially when I see a small baby.

mistlethrush · 16/10/2013 13:49

Sounds a very sensible course of action - and very glad that he's finally paying maintenance - I hope it is at a 'reasonable' level and not the pittance that he initially thought you should 'be grateful' for. (Angry)

themidwife · 16/10/2013 17:37

I hope he's paid the same as he pays for his other "special" sons!!!!

wavesandsmiles · 16/10/2013 17:47

Well no, he hasn't paid the same. And it's more than £30 but a way off what he should pay. And apparently he now has just £26 to last til the end of the month.

Fully no contact again, I need space to process things.

OP posts:
mistlethrush · 17/10/2013 14:03

My heart bleeds for him. Hmm

Why on earth is yours not 'worth' the same? I know he's still little - but they need more warmth, you need food etc - and they get through more clothes than they do when they're older - then there are nappies etc.

themidwife · 17/10/2013 15:55

If he wanted all his money to himself he shouldn't have got married & planned another baby should he?!!

Jux · 17/10/2013 17:59

Perhaps if he hadn't got tickets to see a band at the w/e, or any of that sort of thing, then maybe he'd have a bit more money left after paying for his child.

Arsewipe.

AgathaF · 17/10/2013 18:43

He'll be eating a lot of beans on toast then, won't he.

creepycadence · 17/10/2013 20:05

Well then he should get some lodgers in, sell a load of his stuff, do extra work in his spare time, scrimp and save, go without luxuries - as you have done. When you make a child, you provide for them. End of. He really is stupid.

ChangingWoman · 17/10/2013 23:35

There's a line somewhere in Brideshead Revisited where Julia describes her ex-husband as being like a ticket stub. She had thought the stub personality was attached to something more substantial and fully human but she had been wrong. There was nothing more there. I think of this often - it's an easy mistake that many of us have made.

"But you can't just flick a switch and turn your feelings off - I can't anyway."

You can't (and shouldn't try to) turn them off, but sometimes you can override them. You don't have to act on your feelings. You are in charge of yourself, your feelings and the relationships you choose to be in.

Your feelings will be there no matter what but they evolve over time and one day they will catch up with what you know.

isshoes · 18/10/2013 14:06

Waves I have spent a lot of time catching up on your story. I have alternated between wide-mouth shock, tears, and a few smiles along the way when nice things happened. None of the smiles were for twunt. Even when he appeared to be making a nice gesture, it turned out to be another of his tricks, or he back-pedalled within days.

I would like to say a massive well done to you for getting through this year and for managing to parent your children as well as it sounds like you have. Some of the time when reading your threads, my shock was at how much you were managing to do whilst feeling desperately ill!

I totally respect your views on how people are inherently good- although I tend to think that people are born as fairly blank canvasses that are shaped by the millions of experiences they have every day of the world. And therefore there are truly evil people, and there are people who cannot or will not change.Whatever the truth of the matter, I cannot see that you or your family could ever have a healthy and happy life with twunt I'm afraid. But you CAN still have your happy ending, and I truly believe you will. My heart broke for you when you wished and wished to have your happy ending back, but I want you to know that twunt and your happy ending are mutually exclusive. You come across as a highly intelligent, interesting, talented person and no doubt you will meet someone who will make you wonder what you ever saw in twunt. But the important things are a) your happiness doesn't depend on that happening and b) it is more likely to happen if you work on your self-esteem, because it is heartbreakingly sad that you, at times, appear to think you need him.

Having said all of the above, at the moment you sound set on the divorce, which is great news. I wish you all the very best.

wavesandsmiles · 18/10/2013 17:17

Thank you all so very much, from the bottom of my heart, for your support all year. The tough love was necessary, the hand holding so appreciated and I have been bowled over by the gifts sent for the baby, the blankets, the accommodation when we did our trip in the summer, the couple of meet ups, the PMs, and the links and advice, the joy when Acrobat arrived (can't believe I was updating from the delivery room!) and everything. And thanks to whoever nominated for the Christmas appeal too Blush

So, I hope you are all pleased to hear that today I signed the divorce petition. Proceedings are now commenced and by the end of February I will no longer be married. Still a way to go, but it is a bloody good start.

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