Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

X-posts! Should've refreshed screen before posting!

bounty - I'm most scared that I'm at least half to blame for the relationship going so wrong.
You are still thinking that you are only entitled to leave the relationship if he's been properly abusive/admits his wrongdoings. So what if you were half to blame (you are absolutely not, but I'm just saying so what). You'd still be entitled to say 'I am unhappy in this situation, I am not staying any longer'. He will never give you permission, he will always blame it on you. Your challenge in this is to develop an attitude of 'I don't care what you think or say, this is what I want to do and I'm doing it regardless. You can blame it on me if you like, if it makes you feel better, but ultimately it makes no difference to what I am going to do.'

bounty, how about giving it three months out of the relationship and then reviewing? Leaving doesn't have to be a final decision - if you think you got it wrong, you can go back. (I'm hoping you won't want to once you're out!)

I have found out why FW is so keen to count his days (nights) with the dcs (he has it all planned for the next few months) and see them as much as possible for as long as possible. He has looked at some suggested child support website and realised he can pay me less if he has them more! So he's going for exactly the cut-off point between two amounts of maintenance. That way he can look good, but still give me as little as possible.

He is showing himself to be a FW more clearly by the day - I am so glad I made the decision; it is definitely the right one. Even if he could act the part of a nice man, it would only be because he knew it was what I wanted; he would still not believe it to be necessary. And how sustainable is that?

I have started thinking about these weekends that he's going to have the dcs. He wants to pick them up Friday after school and take them to school Monday morning. I'm really uncomfortable with the latter, because they will be late to bed Sunday evening and then probably late to school Monday morning, going on past experience. Am I within my rights to say no, I want them back 6pm on Sunday? And what if he says no?

Charlotte FW has told the CSA that he has the dc overnight twice a week. They have stayed more often in the school holidays, but term time it is only once. He is determined to pay as little as possible and I can't be bothered to argue as he will just produce 'diary evidence' to support his claim if need be. I will be a bit better off next month as I go up to 4 days at work and DS gets his nursery funding.

Found out why the divorce seems to be stalling-FW asked me today if I'd heard anything. It transpired he hadn't read through the last lot of stuff his solicitor had sent him and the Consent Order and Statement of Information form have been sitting in his house, unsigned for 5 weeks now. At least he will get on with it now as, in his words, he wants to be 'rid of you'.

Hi everyone. Not ready to talk too much yet as I'm trying to hold things together.

My DP is bipolar and previously he has treated me horrendously (mainly psychologically but some physical and sexual too). We've always worked hard to get through these times as he's determined not to medicate or seek help in any way shape or form.

It was mostly very good for a long time, with the bad bits being few and far between. So we planned a baby.

I'm now pregnant with his child and in the weeks since we found out have never been treated so badly in my life.

I honestly don't know how this whole thing is going to turn out. Reading this thread though, it doesn't seem like a regular occurrence for this type of man to miraculously transform into a nice person.

I'm really quite lost.

What a FW, Match!

Yes, I thought that it sounded standard FWery when he said something about having "enough" nights with the dcs. Naively, up till then, I thought he'd be more generous. (I'm still learning.) Or at least less well-informed! Not really surprised though, I'm not sure when he manages to work given all the time he's devoting to his FWery at the moment!

He is grabbing Christmas already. I suppose it is ok, and they will have a lovely time with all his family. But part of me thinks, "Hang on, who's been the constant in their lives while he's been in and out, and mostly out, for years? And who should miss out on the first big family event?" I don't think I could bear to go to my dps and have Christmas just with them. I think I will stay by myself. Can't believe I'm having to think about this already.

Contact is such a minefield charlotte as you know. Is he having them midweek too? and he may like the idea now of a three night weekend and all the other as much as possible but do you think he will in reality, how involved was he before? At the moment I would just say that is really all depends on how DC feel/adapt - the contact with each parent has to benefit them. Being flexible at this point may help you a lot and just take it easy on routines for them and you. is it going to court or by agreement?

Hi, Jolleigh. Sorry to hear your story. Don't worry if you don't want to talk; grab a and rest in the company of people who understand without explanations. :)

He'll love it, better - because he'll give them attention when he has friends over and he'll give them TV and computers when he doesn't want to spend time with them. And he'll be delighted that he's getting one over on me. or whatever the expression is :(

Haven't even spoken to a solicitor I trust yet. Bit worried that once I get a solicitor I'll be calling them about every small detail or go to the opposite end of the spectrum and fail to mention a few biggies. That's how little idea I have of what's what!

joll you take your time with everything. The blunt answer is no he will probably not change but the main thing is you and how you deal with this and come through the other side happy and safe. How safe are you at the moment? DA does usually get worse during pregnancy it did for me - I was very shocked, still am years later. Keep posting if you can.
Match I would not let it go - the CSA usually work it out anually and would take term/holidays into account - keep your truth and see what they say nothing lost and none of his business the FW! I would also put it in a journal, these seeingly little things can soon paint a very clear picture in case anyone needs the info.

Charlotte you are within your rights to say whatever you want re his contact with the DCs, and it sounds like you have very good reason to want them back by 6pm Sunday.
Ultimately, there is no right or wrong, just what can be agreed upon. But if for reasons of DC best interests you are not happy with a whole weekend, you say so and set it as the Friday night only (for example). Or 6pm on a Sunday. If he wont agree to that, then you use your solicitor and possibly mediation. (And if he says 'tough, we're doing it my way' and thereby threatens not to bring them back so he can enforce his own schedule, then he doesn't get to have them on that occasion at all and that would look v bad against him if it went to court - that's always been the advice I've been given re threats of that nature.) He doesn't get to set the terms. You both need to agree on them, and ultimately they need to be in DCs' interests. But agree is the key thing, not him bully you into agreeing to what he wants, for financial reasons.

Match - I don't think he does want to be 'rid of you'. Because once he is, he loses that element of control over you. Five weeks is a long time for something to sit unsigned. It's just not a priority for him because there's more benefit to him in not sorting it out. How are things with your fella?

How DC feel - at the moment they get sad when Daddy goes away because he takes his phone (ie their favourite toy) away with him. He's very manipulative: he will give them so many goodies that even if they dislike parts of staying with him, they will be very conflicted.

And how do I even know if DD3 is ok or not? She's had two 6-day trips with him this summer and she wants me to do everything with her at the mo and won't let him. Happy for cuddles with him as long as I'm there. So I'm thinking maybe she shouldn't go with them for the next (4-day) trip. But maybe she'd be fine once she's there? And if she doesn't go, she misses out on seeing family members that she could have a wonderful time with.

It's all too effing difficult! If I were still with him, he'd still be ignoring them most of the time and at least they'd have constant contact with me and I'd be the bigger influence in their lives! Now it's much more equal and he's buying influence already. But he's only doing stuff that lots of bad parents do and it's not enough to remove the dcs.

I remember now about the solicitor situation - you do the right thing to get as much info as you can before the timer is on and the bills rush in, I didn't do that and have paid the price. The reality is that even though the best interests of the child is supposed to be the main consideration - should he take you to court for more contact they do look at shared care as far as possible so it would be then up to you to say why that is not in the DC's best interest - sadly to say they would be late for school would not be enough without proof and poor DC end up having to go through stuff before action is taken and orders varied. Are there any activities they would miss if with FW? how to DC feel about how much time they spend there?

Pony I have finished things with him when I realised that actually, other than the sex, there was nothing else I wanted! dirty cow. I wasn't looking forward to seeing him particularly and it was a relief when he went and I could go and collect the dc. I have posted another thread in relationships as I am not sure I ever really loved FW or am capable of properly loving anyone now. I like being by myself too much.

pony - thank you, that's the kind of step-by-step advice I need at the moment!

jolleigh so sorry to hear about your situation. Take time to yourself so you can think things through. Have you spoken to your midwife or health visitor about the situation? Mine were fantastically supportive (without being pushy about what I should do) when I spoke to them while pregnant and being abused.

Charlotte, better's advice about arranging things for a short while, to see how the DCs like it, is good advice. And I bet if you make it clear to him what a favour he's doing to you, taking the DCs at Christmas, allowing you to live it up single-style, he'll not feel so smug about it!

Thank you everyone.

Betterthanever - physically I'm completely safe. I realised though that this is a serious problem when I started wishing he'd do something physical so that I could end it without people assuming I'm being overly sensitive because of pregnancy hormones . There's an engagement ring on my finger but I honestly no longer think I can marry him knowing that he's his own number 1 priority despite me being pregnant.

Sorry crossed posts.
I think contact would drop off - it often does when they are not a FW. Agree with pony on the agree point - mediation sounds a good option - it just all costs. If you get an email chain going with your reasonable negotiating ones showing against his demands that may be useful.
The DC get a big say and what feels ok now to them may not be how it feels longer term - gettting goodies all the time stops being a treat too. I'd let DC lead the way a bit for now, nothing with contact is ever final. Sounds as if DC3 is already starting to miss the real love from you, it just can't be replaced - ever. FW's do not understand true love and true attachment and true bonds.

That is good for now Joll if it does get physcial get out as soon as you can. Has he threatened you physcially even? I didn't actually get hit. Have you told people in RL about things? I didn't at first.

pony just laughed out loud at the single Christmas not so smug comment - brilliant!!

This is the first time I've admitted to anyone except myself what's been going on. Even before things got bad if I spoke about anything, it was always the stuff that could be disguised as lover's tiffs.

No proper physical threats no. Physically all he's doing is 'playfully' slapping my breasts and pinching my nipples really hard despite how sore they are. He does this repeatedly telling me 'that can't hurt' and then gets arsy and stroppy if I start to seem annoyed myself. The rest is purely psychological.

Jolleigh admitting it to yourself is a big step. Saying it out loud to other people, even online, is another one. My FW rarely hurt me physically (and even when he did, it was never much more than a push, a poke, holding my wrist too hard, etc). But he still had me absolutely terrified of him, without hardly laying a finger on me.

I second everything Pony said - I remember a friend once trying to get me to understand something I was telling her was not a playful lovers tiff, I sadly didn't listen, in fact I was annoyed at her - I feel so bad for that now - she was right. It is one stage at a time, you can't believe it yourself can you and when you are pregnant how could someone cause more harm than before. What he is doing to you phyiscally at the moment sounds like taunting and abusive - my ex would do similar eventually like any normal preson I would `react' I was then the unreasonable one and for a long long time I believed that to be true and tried to change my actions but I did it wrong - I didn't understand I could respond just not react - I just ignored it, I saw myself as just not being able to take a joke - it was never a joke, it was never funny. If you can I would have a chat to your closest friend and tell them how you feel or a family member maybe - we are always here and if can't do that right now, keep posting. It's nice to chat to you although I wish you didn't have to be here.

jolleigh welcome
he's his own number 1 priority come what may probably.
you have hit the nail right on the head there jolleigh that is the problem they are not only their own no1 priority they usually expect to be yours too. that is why parenting with an entitled man can be so difficult. they cannot accept that the dcs are even an equal priority. let alone maybe more needing than they are

my ex actually told me that he should be the most important thing. I thought he was joking. well you would wouldn't you? but no, turned out he meant it.

have to say he got a lot worse when I was pg too. and after.

He does this repeatedly telling me 'that can't hurt'
I'd be inclined to give his knackers an almighty flick and then tell him the same not really of course...but it might be worth saying- how would you feel if I did that to your bollocks?

well done though jolleigh for being brave enough to admit it.

when you think about your rs, what would you like to happen?