Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I don't think I'm ready to talk face to face with a friend yet, but I do think I've managed to reach out to some friends here . I admit there could be better circumstances to meet friends in, but there are people here who seem to have been through similar and managed to come out of the other side smiling. You've done things that from where I am seem frankly miraculous.

Thanks everyone for the support tonight. I'll be back in soon. xxx

match was wondering what happened. sounds like you have made a decision you are happy with there.
I always leave thing too long out of guilt/obligation. except in the case of my last dalliance who got his marching orders quick style... fundamental incompatibility in ahem certain areas crap shag

better - thank you for your post; everything you say sounds right and sensible and it does make me feel better. I have to let time tell, really, and that's always the hardest thing.

He did say something about getting a job overseas recently, for the first time since we split - unfortunately, he had been droning on and I had disengaged so well I didn't hear what he was saying about it! :o My heart leapt, though - do hope he gets bored soon and disappears out of our lives for the most part!

Also love pony's idea of telling him I'll be living up the single life. :o :o

Thanks all for your replies earlier. I did read them but did not feel able to answer until fw has gone to his own room. Yes you are all right. I never really tell lies to anyone else. I'm known for being honest. Perhaps this is why it shocks me more. I feel like in most of this I have kept my dignity but not today. After being off with me all day he has been pleasant tonight. Apart from one moan that he wants me to stop deciding what we do all the time without consulting him. I had a day planned out with dd today and he didn't want to come. Tomorrow I'm seeing my parents which he's not happy about. I asked him if it was ok and what time of day would be best by him last weekend and he replied whatever my opinion doesn't count. So I arranged it to suit me seeing as he didn't care but now I'm accused of planning things without consulting him. Have asked him what he wants to do as a family on sat and have been told "don't know". It appears that dd and I are meant to it around twiddling our thumbs on the off chance he wants to do anything. Oh and every time I buy something that wasn't in the budget he gleefully points out that it is 'over budget'

charlotte I love Pony's suggestion of pretending to be living the single life up on Christmas by yourself. I too cannot bear the thought of Christmas with others but no dd. I will try to work over Christmas if we are separated by then. The contact is a nightmare but I imagine it might be something you have to try a few different arrangements and see what feels to work best. What you do initially does not have to be the way it is always done. I think my fw will also not be a fw that fades out of dd's life.

joll for me, although he was always controlling I don't think the abuse started properly until dd was born. It does seem that pregnancy is a real trigger. Agree do not marry him, and do not put too much hope into him changing. And keep posting here. I've only told one rl friend. The support here is great.

twiddling our thumbs

YY, don't know the number of times we had to do this. Get a blast of anger if we went out without him, but then stay in and wait all day for him to give us an hour or two in the run-up (or preferably after) the dc's bedtime.

Charlotte - def fw bingo there. My fw's preferred time to lavish attention on dd is just as I'm hoping to start bedtime. If I press on then I'm accused of stopping him from spending time with her and being a nag. If I leave them then it could be an our after dd's bedtime before she's in bed.

An hour not our

Mine used to leave me to organise all days out, then get up get the ids dressed, make their breakfast, pack their stuff, buy the picnic, make the picnic, (write the feem toon, sing the feem toon ) while he sat there watching the telly.
then just before I was ready (when there wasn't much left that he could be asked to do) he would start going for f's sake why aren't you ready yet. I can't wait for you all day. you are wasting my time. you always do this.

his favourite trick though, (which he still does when he sees the kids) is frightening them and then laughing about it. he can't just push them on the swings he has to push them so high they are clinging on. he has spun the roundabout so fast that they have literally come flying off it on more than one occasion. the more they scream the more he laughs. he liked to totally wind them up before bed but usually not in a fun gentle way in a slightly scary OTT way. he claims it is good for them because it toughens them up.
It is not the fact he is a bit boisterous that bothers me. I do think a certain amount of pushing the limits of their bravery is good for them. it is the laughing that bothers me. it is clear it is for his amusement. and it makes him seem untrustworhy. If I have to ask them to do something that tests them a bit I will be encouraging and reassuring. not laughing like a maniac.

what he is doing is just a form of bullying IMO.

control. control. control.

God he sounds horrible, to treat his kids like that. Don't get me started on the telly thing either, my FW idea of a perfect day was sitting in front of he box soooo bloody boring. If we were in the house the telly had to be on even if he wasn't in he same bloody room as it. There again mugging here was paying the bills so It was no skin off his nose!

Also my water bills were sky high since he started staying here they had visibly gone up a lot. He would have a daily bath and fill it brimful. When I commented on this I was called tight and he never stopped going on about how how bad I made him feel. It's had such an effect hat even writing this on here I is gong through my mind that you might all think might I'm tight.

Just like to add that I'm not a dirty bitch that doesn't wash I just think he could take a shower instead of bath

FW does similar to me too on days out - a day out with him takes years off my life I swear. He gets stressed about packing anything, we're always leaving too early/too late. He gets himself ready and leaves me to do everything for DD while he sits in front of the TV. He drives like a man possessed has almost caused accidents with us in the car many times. He complains about how much places cost - on one occasion he refused to pay the entry fee when we got somewhere so we had to go home. He spoils a day out any way he can.

Currently he has the hump with me because he wants a night out 'with his wife' (don't know why that phrase annoys me but it does). I suggested a family day out this weekend, he said that isn't what he wanted.

I'm spending Friday night with my sister before she moves back to the other side of the country at the end of the month (meaning my nearest relative will be 3 hours away) . He's annoyed because he has to 'babysit'.

And he still hates that I don't want to spend the evening sat in front of the TV with him. I spend my evenings decluttering and will soon be studying again. The house is messy so he should be happy that I'm doing something about it. But he's not.

I hate him.

mink that's scary, and yes, controlling. What sane person does that to his kids?

Bounty fine to lie in The face of unreasonable blaming and picking-on - in fact proper survival techniques in face of enemy. I'm sure prisoners of war considered it morally fine. Also you weren't blaming your 2yo, because what sane person would be annoyed about a) his phone moving and even more b) his toddler moving something left in reach. They play with our perceptions these fws but rest assured you are in no way in the wrong.

Charlotte. YY to 'even if he could act the part of a nice man it would only be because he knew it was what I wanted' - mine too.

Yy you are within your rights re Sunday nights - do your best for dcs that's all you can do.

Jolleigh so very sorry to hear about your sad experiences. Welcome. You will find comfort, enormous support and the path forwards here- that's what's done it for me anyhow! My initial thoughts on your post were that your DP's very unfortunate health problem is separate from his evident abusive tendencies.

Sigh if I could go back in time I would have left while my babies were still safe in my tummy. That's just what I wish I'd done

Charlotte do you have to agree now to Xmas? If you feel up to it don't disagree but say it's too early to decide but you will arrange by (random date ie 1 oct). By which time you'll be in a better position. I think you may find a decision made now is him pushing you and taking advantage while you're still taking early steps outside rs. FWIW I think you're right that your dcs' best interests would be served by Xmas with their most regular carer- ie you- but am loving pony's suggestion of emphasising your fun singleton xmas- bluffing works well with fws as they don't credit us with intelligence on their (entirely imaginary and laughable) scale!

Charlotte perhaps now is time to get sol. You will need a firewall between you and fw's antics which will probably get very manipulative and which a cool professional head will easily dismiss and deal with but we in our fw vulnerability find much harder as the fws know which buttons to press and how to get their way with us :(

Bounty 'whatever, my opinion doesn't count' then, oh you never tell me anything never consult etc' oh YYYY. My fw ALL over too. Prick.

Ps sorry if this posted twice first time didn't show on my phone so wasn't sure it got through.

Bounty triple bingo re bed time here too!

I was feeling very slightly hoovered this morning because he is so manipulative and has worked out the over-sliming loving is leaving me cold so is being reasonable and friendly and supportive (the bastard [ wink] but you ladies know what I mean!) SO glad to have this thread, the bingo moments alone are the eye openers.

Mink bingo again re the getting ready business!

Jackie no one sane thinks you're tight it's his mind games that have made you worry- worry not, lovely one, you are the normal one, he's the impossible one. My fw used to laugh with bitter, angry amazement at my 'selfishness' if I even questioned his family coming for three months to our then one bedroom flat when i was working and he wasn't but when my sister comes once a year for a week he moans constantly about how much she's costing in bills!! Grr

Nini 'with his wife' yes I get that too and it's bloody annoying. I think it's the overtones of possession and expectation of a certain pre ordained behaviour that is annoying for me. So sorry to hear your dsis is moving away :(

Mink I agree with Nini that that is scary and horrible behaviour from your fw to his kids, bastard.

It (his behaviour with the kids) is more subtle than it might sound from the above. on the surface it looks like he is being fun dad. all smiles and laughs. and kids do sometimes like a good squeal. he also swings them about by their feet and they actually do think that is hysterical. they squeal and protest but then go straight back and demand he does it again.

if I say anything I look like over anxious molly coddling no fun mum. mostly they did enjoy the park with him. he is quite fun (on a good day). but there was almost always one incident where he took it a bit far. and I think because he had kids before me I kind of assumed he knew what he was doing (and the only time one of them was actually injured it was on my watch fell off a climbing frame)

I am not excusing the more sinister behaviour, I am saying that is how he 'gets away with it'. The line is very blurred between kid-on fun and him showing them that he decides not them and slowly eroding their trust.

a friend said she watched him once bounce a yoga ball off dd1's head when she was still just toddling and then laughing when she got a fright. she said it wasn't that he did it, it was that he laughed at her reaction.

dd1 actually said that last time I asked her if she wanted me to get in touch with him to go out 'I don't trust that man'.

I think they feel a bit like I used to feel about him: he is fascinating and exciting and a little bit dangerous and that is strangely compelling. but he is not their safe place.

mink that's an awful way to react to a child's distress. I was going to say that I had that too from FW - he would declare that DS1 needing 'toughening up' too and that xyz that I was objecting to was 'good for him'. But your FW wins the biscuit there with laughing at them getting hurt/distressed. That's very detached from them as being actual human beings with feelings.

Also, yyy to the days out - getting ready was stressful (because he would get stressed to everyone had to stay out of his way or face getting yelled at), and we would frequently be in the car, waiting another 5/10/15 minutes. He would say 'I'll just be a minute' and disappear back into the house. I swear he did it on purpose to make sure we were properly wound up. Then the day would inevitably be spoiled in some way or another. Over this summer we've had numerous days out and picnics etc. And not one of the them was a stressful occasion, even on my own with two kids. Speaks volumes.

Charlotte agree with Breathe's suggestion not to let him steamroller you into making decisions too far off in advance. It's a control technique, and also bullying. Two months in advance should be enough notice to arrange Christmas. You need to see how things will work between now and then before arranging it anyway.

Small light-hearted distraction:

Google 'Scotland's national animal' and see the result. Made me smile!!!

Just sneaking in here to ask if someone should tell the EAer she knows what he's up to or is that considered not a good idea?

gahhhh!! i went to the dump yesterday and bumped into an old male friend (who mysteriously deleted me off fb). he told me that before the split, fw had sent him threatening messages after going through my phone and getting jealous that i was talking to a male, accusing him of trying to steal me

but thats not it- fw also did the same to his poor wife, sent her a msg saying your husband is trying to fuck my gf etc. i was wondering why she and a couple others gave me dirty looks at the school gates... so now his marriage is on the rocks cos his wife now dont trust him hence why he had to delete me.

arrgghh!!!! FW FW FW!!!!!!! so bloody embarrassing! its bad enough being a jealous controlling fw without showing that to the neighbourhood!
ppl must think im a homewrecker i have to walk past his wife on a twice daily basis

Begginyouformercy depends on the context. But generally it is considered to be both not a good idea and a waste of your breath

If you are the target of the abuse, the most likely reaction is that you will be accused of abuse. Or more serious abuse.
Sadly, the least likely reaction is that they will take a tumble to themselves, apologise/admit it, do some hard looking in the mirror and change.

So it depends on why you are telling them. If it is for an admission there is little point. I think there is some point for personal validation and using your voice. I.E. saying I know what you are doing. it is abuse. If it makes you feel better. And it may also let them know you don't think it is OK. but it won't change them.

oh god honey that is awful. and what can you do? anything you say to her to try to make it better will look like you are lying/making excuses.

Honey how horrible and embarrassing for you

Beggin normal methods have been tried, yes. Sadly they don't work in abusive situations.

Sorry Beggin my post was done in haste and sounded sharp. I meant when we come here we tend to be at last resort having tried all normal methods which haven't worked due to the EA nature of our partners. What's your situation? Can we help?

Thankyou, Mink & Breathe. Apart from LTB is there any other way of dealing with it? It doesn't happen very often and I believe it is inherited from his mother.

Sorry, cross posted, Breathe. Too upset to talk just now, sorry. also worried he sees this. I didn't think you were harsh

exactly mink he doesnt even seem to give a stuff that he could be breaking up a family. such a disgusting thing to do based on pure jealousy.