Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Well, that was horrible. Just feel like crying now. He was calm and reasonable and blinded me with business-speak and legalese and made me feel I am getting just about everything wrong (except telling DD2, which I put up a good enough defence for). Even blinded me with complicated plans and possibilities for the next two weeks, ridiculous as that sounds. Worst thing is that I feel I will be just as trapped separated as if I were staying put. He even said that I would have to consider him (as the dc's parent) more than I did when married with big decision-making like moving or staying put. After wasting hours when he could've been working on all this "interest" in my life and its potential challenges, he started putting forth his wishes for Christmas!

How do I decide what is ok and what is him taking advantage, for the rest of my life, and stand up for myself without going too far and actually being selfish and ignoring his wishes? :( He is the dc's parent and we are going to have constant battles over decision-making about them. It all feels too much.

And I'm worried that my financial status is not good enough to get this house that I'm too tired now to fill in an application form for.

I can't even get my head round what he's said for long enough to note it all down this evening. :( Hate having to deal with him. Just can't cope with it.

Oh charlotte I don't know all the answers but I reckon the many women on here who tell us that life is better and the grass is greener without a fw can't be wrong. It may take a bit of time getting used to learning which battles to stand up for yourself in. And one step at a time. So for no focus on the house and then move on to the next task.

I'm struggling with knowing how to argue and stick up for myself fairly. Fw is very good at making me feel like the controlling inflexible one every time I try to stand my ground over something that matters to me. I don't like that feeling. And so I would welcome any tips on how to discuss and debate things normally without feeling like a fw myself. I'm so used to going yes fw in every debate that it feels alien.

A hearty yy to your second paragraph, bounty.

These things feel out of control at the moment: the dcs are bored and I don't feel I'm doing a great job looking after them (setting up playdates or planning days out); there is almost no food in the house; the car seems to need urgent repairs; next week is not planned yet at all; and to top it all, the all-important mouse left-click key on this computer has broken, so it feels like the computer's on its way out, too.

I don't even know how to explain my financial situation on the credit check forms I've been sent for the house; and now FW's suggesting changes I need to make or offering to support the application financially, which just makes my brain totally shut down and refuse to work. I've spent a significant proportion of this evening staring into the middle distance going, "Think, brain, think!"

So even something as straightforward as focussing on the house for now sounds overwhelming. :(

Am going to bed now and hoping it's all resolved itself into something manageable by morning. :(

charlotte I think this is the sort of thing to sort out either through family mediation or sol. for the broad framework. and for the fine detail, like Christmas, you do that nearer the time.

he is trying to intimidate you. yes he gets a say where the live, go to school etc. but in reality he cannot afford to sweat the little things because if you make a decision he does not like his choices are either discuss it reasonably or take you to court.

and bottom line it has fuck all to do with his (selfish) wishes. in this as in all things- do what is best for the dcs. he has responsibilities not rights.

((hugs))
do the form tomorrow.

charlotte I didn't want to read and run. I don't really know what to say to help as I've not experienced your situation. Luckily I have no DC with my FW and no real ties so I can count myself lucky in they respect.

Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you. I will say however that family mediation can be useful, they are very good. I went with my ex husband, not over children but regarding the divorce. Take care x

Charlotte, he is trying to intimidate, bully, manipulate, yes. You need to ignore him. It will be a hundred times easier when you are in your own house, so getting the house and the forms done is a priority. Response for just now: It will all sort itself out in time. Or similar. Repeat as necessary. If he carries on, say, I understand this is difficult, but it will all sort itself out in time. Add: now please leave me alone. DO NOT engage.

It is hard, because he has had your whole relationship time of getting you to engage and he knows how to do it. This is where you need to learn new skills. Ignore, ignore, ignore. mink is right, it will all be sorted by your respective solicitor's, through mediation or in writing. He cannot dictate the terms of the separation, however much he thinks he can, so you are not trapped (I know the feeling, it has taken me a long time to get rid of it, and every contact weekend, it kind of comes back, but it is gradually going).

You are taking control of your life back, he doesn't like it, but that is his problem, not yours. Get the forms done, make a list of what else needs done, and just plod your way through it. That is your focus. Ignore him. And the more you get out the house, the easier he will be to ignore.

I think the key thing here is: you cannot discuss things reasonably with a FW (that's for both bounty and Charlotte). All you can do is know when to cut the conversation short because he is starting to bully/manipulate/twist/control. You cannot debate with a FW, it's pointless and emotionally draining. Think of the broken record technique. Just repeat what you want to get across repeatedly. Anything else they say: I'll think about it. Or ask them to put it in an email, you are not willing to discuss it face-to-face. Or as quietcoach says - non-committal noises.

Charlotte my lovely, you are where i was last summer. I was a wretched figure of a mother last summer, added to the terrible weather and we did next to nothing. This summer has been our best ever - WA events, playdates, holidays. I've actually don't tell the other mums enjoyed the summer holidays! Hold on in there. I think you should take the house. Go and fill in the forms at the agent's office so you can get help with them. Get a solicitor on the case re contact if you feel that he's burying you. You don't have to deal with him face-to-face and be subjected to his blizzard on madness-maker speak. Baby steps, lovely, baby steps.

Sorry to hear your FW is being even more of a FW than normal Charlotte. Agree with everyone else, disengaging and perhaps dealing with him through a sol is probably the way to go. And in any case, sometimes a good cry will just help you to let off steam, even just a little (but not in front of him of course) .

Rose, I'm actually a teeny bit at your studenty house. Can we all come round for late night cider drinking sessions, pot smoking and rubbish loud music? or was that just my student days?.

Hi. Can I join? It's 2 weeks now since my DP left. It has taken a friend to point out he was a FW. I suppose i knew but was afraid to admit as he suffers with mental health issues. I suspect he is bipolar but will not seek help. That mixed with a mid life crisis led him to leave me and the DC. I'm left feeling its my fault. I too hate waking in the mornings as realisation sets in.

Rose that's so good to hear. Don't worry if your feelings are not what you thought they would be - whatever you feel is yours and yours alone, and it will probably change on a daily basis anyway. Just focus on yourself and DD, and look forward to making the house your own and to starting your course. So proud of you!

Flora that sounds like a really difficult situation all round. Have a read at the links at the top, get some RL support, and above all be kind to yourself - whether he's gone through being a FW or through his MH issues, it's not your fault, and you can't fix him. Focus on yourself for now.

Rose the house sounds perfect. The studenty feel will vanish as you make it your own. Congratulations my love, you have done an amazing thing! Very inspiring!

Charlotte and Bounty I know what you mean about the spaghetti headed feeling. I agree with the others about the technique for dealing with it (though can't always manage it myself; the more fw here talks at me, the more conversely he's helping me to learn to resist his fw pressure ha ha!).

last night he waited till kids were asleep and then opened door to my room in holiday flat and said let's talk. A few months ago I would maybe have dragged myself out and been talked at for hours and then ranted at when i said no to sex (he still keeps trying- it's been a LONG time we've not been together).

thanks to the fw special intense course of firmly saying no to his sexual advances while I've been trapped with him on holiday, I found it easier to say no, I do not want to talk.

But I then went to sleep and had terrible dreams which are a feature of this holiday. I dreamt I was sexually assaulted and tortured. I woke up wondering if fw had drugged me and done something. As I woke up properly I realised this was not possible but I thought the dream must be based on the constant slimy touches and unwanted advances and compliments from fw all holiday to the point that I try and wear cover up clothes although its boiling here. I feel constantly low level violated. Apart from physical touching it's the constant ignoring of my plainly stated requests to stop- he doesn't, it's like an unstoppable tide of unwanted creepy lerve.

But it's not love of course it's control. And his idea of how to catch me back. About three years too late mate. Grrrrrrrrttrrrr.

breathe oh that sounds awful. hang in there. it won't be long.
Glad you are feeling strong in your defences.

rose yay for getting the bed done

Flora welcome. Keep posting if it helps.

Waves to everyone else.

flora thought i recognised the nn. you popped into thread 24 didn't you and i saw you on the positive stories thread.
I am bipolar btw. it can be hard to live with but it is no excuse for being abusive. he is responsible as we all are for our on mh. and although i won't deny that my issues have at times made me hard to live with i try not to let them affect others too much. don't let the fact that he has been ill justify him being unpleasant to you.

Being an abusive FW is neither a symptom of nor a treatment for bipolar disorder. it is a symptom of thinking you are entitled to treat your partner badly and sadly even if get were cured of bp he would still think the same way.

I am saying this just to say, please don't feel any guilt over his mh issues. he had a choice to get help and a choice not to treat you badly. he made the wrong choices.

How can I get over the feeling of rejection and that it wasn't my fault he left? He says I was controlling, stubborn and lacked commitment. He says he was ashamed of me in front of his family.
Yet, deep down I know I am a kind and caring person who tried to support his mental illness. I used to be confident. I have a professional job and I'm studying as well for a masters degree. I am a good mum. How can he say those things which are not true?

x post Mink. sorry

Thanks Mink. Its good to have your advice as someone who suffers. He is not diagnosed as he refuses to seek medical help from the GP. I think he has a fear of admission and also a fear of having it on his medical records. He also has issues with his parents and sibling dating back to childhood. I've tried for many years to help him and encourage him to seek help but to no avail. He has only one friend and no family living locally. He says he feels better now he has left. But my DC and I are left confused and rejected.

You cannot fix him flora. It is hard if you are compassionate not to try but you cannot fix him if he won't fix himself. save your energy for yourself and your kids. all the times you have been kind to him mow be kind to yourself. you deserve it more

Oh and now he is on his own it may force him to deal with it. and then maybe hopefully he Will become a better father but for now you need to leave him to his own devices and focus on your family. make a team of you and your dcs.

the pain is horrible. made worse by knowing that you are worth so much more. he is the one in the wrong and you are the one who feels rejected. sadly this is just something you have to reconcile yourself to. there is no justice. The only thing you can do is grieve, heal and then live your life well. knowing that this was not your fault.

Sorry slightly rushed posts but i hope i am making some sense.

Thanks. It makes sense. I need to build up my confidence and show him he can't have power over me. Any tilps on getting confidence back are welcome :0)

Thanks for the supportive messages.
I think making a plan will help me feel less trapped and helpless. I have already seen a solicitor and know that I'll be ok financially. OH knows nothing of this, threatens me with destitution occasionally. I'm not showing my hand though. As far as he knows I don't have a hand.
Child's surgery really really major, not a tonsillectomy type thing but rather up in the most serious surgery you can have. So there is even a danger of losing them during the op. It will mean days in ICU, prob in an induced coma, then some weeks in hospital then 3 months at least recovering at home. If all goes well.
Naturally the way you support your family during such a crisis is to fuck a co-worker whilst convincing wife she is unbalanced for even suspecting such a thing.
Then threaten her with I will leave/ I won't leave for months. Still denying affair.
I can see its how a narc will keep you off balance, never knowing WTFs going on and what reality is.
Bastard.
I am not a troll, but a sad but determined woman.

RVM what a bs**d he really has been putting you through it.
Are you sure him being there while you dc recovers really is the best thing? Or is he likely to want to make it all about him? Not telling you to ltb just throwing it out there in case him being there is actually going to add to the burden on you all?
Is he generally good with the dcs?

So pleased for you and ever so slightly jealous that you're in your own place, Rose. Well done on winning the fight with the beds!

Thanks so much for your support after last night. I did get on briefly this morning to read what you'd all posted and it spurred me on, firstly to think more constructively about all the stuff that had overwhelmed me last night, and secondly to make a start on the form. My guarantor (DB) has to fill in a form as well, so I haven't finished it, but I like your idea, pony of going into the office and checking it's all completed correctly before handing it in, so will do that when he's done his bit.

Rather nervous that they'll turn me down for being on benefits despite all this... hope they decide quickly!

If it does not work out then you tell FW it is great. Encourage him to go for it. he can feck off to fook out of your house and you can stay where you are