Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

anyone that sounds pretty hard. It sounds as if you are confused about his behaviour and the feeling foggy is often a sign that you are being manipulated. Keep reading, keep posting. Sending you strength.

Thank you both so much, I hope you don't mind but I have also started my own thread too. feel guilty and sad for posting in here because it means I have finally acknowledged something is wrong. I don't know what I will do about it though. Things can be good for a days in a row the. I feel bad for even questioning my relationship. I I tried to talk about it with him he would act like he doesn't know what I'm taking about and all his friends and family wouldn't think he could ever be in fhe wrong.

ponygirlcurtis thanking you too, sorry didnt see your post earlier.

Think we cross-posted, anyone. Do you want to link here to your own thread, so we can go and support you there too? No worries if you'd rather not, it's all up to you.

But posting here is the start of an acknowledgement. I couldn't actually acknowledge, or post, until after I'd left. Acknowledging it now is good, really good. Believe me, we have all been through what you have been describing about the good days and bad - if it was all bad, there would be no question but to leave. It's the good days that hook us back.

Here is the link www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1849097-Am-I-in-abusive-relationship

I also copied and pasted my op in a previous thread on there. dearjacjie has kindly posted on my thread already- Thankyou jackie.

At the moment I can't really contemplate leaving it all seems too complicated and a lot like I dot have a good enough reason to leave as I can't even put my finger on why I should leave its so insidious.

Also i don't know how I would cope with the kids or work I'm a health care professional so work unsocialble shifts nights and when I'm on days I don't finish till 9 and don't have any family or Friends the could look after the kids. Sorry I sous heartless listing that as a complication that is not why I'm with him but it is in my mind when I think of possible outcomes of the relationship.

Flora so sorry to hear about your suffering right now. Mink has expressed very well in her post and I agree wholeheartedly with all she says. Keep looking after yourself and remember, it's not you, it's him and he will indeed have to carry himself around for the rest of his life, while you are thankfully free of his knob of entitlement.

Nini very sorry too that your fw has been playing his miserable, gittish tricks.

Dotcom, your fw's tactics sounds exactly like mine, and the problem is, it's so insidious that it's difficult to recognise as mental torture and abuse, but be sure that that is what it is. Also, the guilt we feel in acknowledging the abuse, as though we're betraying them, is a common theme. Please try and remember it's not your fault. Difficult to begin with, but with the support and clarification on here, you will start to feel better, even if logistics mean you cannot act yet. Off to read your thread now

Mind if I pop up to say hello?

I've been reading for a while with interest. I've posted recently about a couple of other aspects of my marriage but I am coming to the conclusion that my DH is an EA. At least he was. He's acting really strangely these last several weeks. He's almost not put a foot wrong, save a couple of guilt trips and ruining a night out at the weekend. He's trying really hard around the house and with DD. He has spent more time at home, which is actually getting me down because his very presence just makes me feel heavy.

It almost makes me feel worse that he has suddenly turned over a new leaf. I was about to leave but now feel like I must have imagined how bad it was but I didn't because he made me miserable but I now so confused.

Do you think he'll revert to type? Sounds awful I know, but I almost want him to hurry up and go back to being his normal self so I can make a decision.

Does that make any sense at all, please ignore me if not! x

lickity makes complete and utter sense. That's the thing about here, stuff which in rl would be difficult to express rationally (though you'd be surprised how rl people do get it too, once you begin confiding in trusted friends), is recognised as part of the famous "fuckwit syndrome" not to put too fine a point on it. What you're experiencing atm sounds like "hoovering", which happens when the abuser in question realises he's overstepped the mark and might be at risk of losing his "willing" victim, so lays on the lerve for a bit. Yes, they do revert, unfortunately . The almost-longing for something "tangible" is familiar too, as the EA is so insidious and we feel we don't have a concrete reason to complain or leave.

Welcome and sorry you are in this position.

thanks breathe! I was so relieved to find MN and this thread. I have been searching and searching for something to describe what has been happening, I was sure there was more to it then what is 'normal'. You ladies all describe it brilliantly, and I have read so much I could have actually written myself.

Lately I have distanced myself and put my foot down on lots of things. He has been keen for me to agree to try for another baby (although he rarely tries to have sex) so I think that is another reason he is being nice. He is trying to convince me he can "behave properly this time" if we were to have another child.

I went to the doctors today and was given ADs. I had a plan to leave by Christmas, but in the last few days, I don't feel strong enough.

Am hoping that spending some time on this thread might gear me up again.

So hello everyone, and thanks for the welcome

Hi lickety, I'm so glad you found some solace here. It's definitely been the place where I have "found myself". I think the thing to remember is that we find ourselves in this situation because we have compassion and because we keep trying, against all the odds - have too much hope and belief in a way. So don't feel down that you may be a "victim" of EA - in fact you're a survivor.

lickety welcome to this thread I hope you will find lots of support here, I know I have. I too got to the point many times when i was almost at the point of ending it but as breathe describes they are excellent at hoovering you back in, until in the end you don't know if your coming or going, and you loose track of thinking you have something concrete to leave about

Ultimately he ended it in a vey cruel way, I suspect because he had 'done' with me and perhaps he'd someone else. I know il be better off in the long run than being with someone with such a personality defect as him. Oh and I was also on Ad's for a time due to his behaviour when we were together. Keep posting and reading on here and it does help to clarify things. Take care

Hi Jackie,
I've been reading your posts too, you're doing amazing and you're right, you'll be so much better off!

The only thing that makes me think it might not be EA is whether there is intent behind it. Most of the time I think he honestly does not realise what he is do

Sorry, stupid phone
H

Doing and then other times I think he can't possibly NOT realise. And you can't really love someone you do those things to. That's the thing I need to get my head round I think!

Anyway, sorry about all the sausage fingers pressing post before I needed! Look forward to reason today

*reading today

I really need to get back into bed and start again!

lickety I too wasn't sure there was intent behind it and I still believe he didn't have full awareness of everything he was doing. BUT that in itself is part of the problem with EA, they often lack insight, so it's like banging your head against a brick wall

Certainly I had times when I put my foot down and he appeared to change but eventually I would 'pay' in some way for this. I do think my ex was vindictive at times though and probably the making me pay was deliberate

Hello, morning lickety - the thing that stood out for me in your post of last night was this:
He's almost not put a foot wrong, save a couple of guilt trips and ruining a night out at the weekend.

Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book? There's a bit in that where he talks about how someone can change a teeny tiny bit, still be behaving badly but because it's less badly in comparison, we are so relieved that it's changed even a little that we see it as complete change. It doesn't sound like he's changed much at all, if he's still ruining nights out and guilt-tripping you.

The question of intent is one I think we all ask at some point. We want to believe that because they don't intend to hurt us so much - because if they actually intended it, that would be even worse and they would be as if a stranger - so we convince ourselves that there's no intent.
It's the wrong question though. It's not about intent to hurt us. The thought of hurting us isn't one they think about. It's about intent to get their own way, have things as they like them and want them, no matter the cost to someone else. Like having another baby. Or ruining a night out as a payback for some perceived slight.

Anyway, keep reading. You too, anyone - making a decision to leave doesn't have to be done now, or soon. You need to work up to that in your own time. It's part of the process, so don't feel bad if you are not ready to think about leaving yet. Keep reading, keep thinking, and think about yourself as well as him - what do you want from your life. Being unhappy in a relationship and not feeling supported or respected, and not believing that this will change - that in itself is a good enough reason to end things. You don't need to have a 'good' reason. You don't have to justify yourself. If you are unhappy, that is reason enough.

Morning ladies - had problems getting on yesterday as I just wanted to post to say thank you - I had to deal with some serious FWittery and the advice, help ad support from you all made it easier to do and the impact of what he was trying to do was not as hurtful. I felt I had turned a corner. I am sure I will still have wobbles and bad days but I just felt a bit better dealing with it this time - thanks again.

YY Pony : It's about intent to get their own way, have things as they like them and want them, no matter the cost to someone else. all the time, every time.

That's good to hear, better. The might of the Kitchen Implement Army is quite a strong thing to have behind you, we are all stronger because of it. Keep waving your whisk! As t'were.

After last nights antics, ive been civil towards him but not over friendly he knows im fed up as he text me this morning
Saying "I love you, sorry if I upset you" I dont know what to do as its just lip service. Yet if I dont accept it he will argue or sulk and I dont want a bad atmosphere even our son is starting to notice twice now he has said "stop, that noise" after hehas shouted at me :-(

Saying "I love you, sorry if I upset you" I dont know what to do as its just lip service. Yet if I dont accept it he will argue or sulk

if I upset you. why the if? that really irks me when people don't say, sorry I was wrong but sorry if I was wrong as if they may not have been wrong. This implies that he cannot actually clearly see he was wrong.

If you don't accept he will sulk. Basically an apology you are forced to accept.

anyone i am not saying don't accept it. you do what you have to do to make your life liveable but see it for what it is. not a loving sincere heartfelt apology. a grudging apology which you are forced to accept because it will be inconvenient for him if you don't forgive him and get on with business as usual. Once you start seeing their behaviour for what they get out of it, it all starts to be much clearer.

when i think about apologies, I have made grudging apologies, looking mostly to my FW, where I was being made to apologise because he said I will apologise for this only if you apologise for that when in fact I was pretty sure he was in the wrong. This is a FW tactic when they realise they cannot outright blame you they make you share the blame.

However, generally, when i apologise it is because I can't not apologise IYSWIM. I have realised that what I have done was wrong and if i did not apologise I would not rest. I often apologise to my kids if i have been grumpy. not because they ask me to or even because they are not speaking to me (they are very forgiving) but because with hindsight i can see clearly I was wrong. if someone did not accept my apology I would accept that I did not deserve to have it accepted and wait until they felt better about it or else try to make amends. IT would not be my place to tell them that they have to get over it.

A FW apologises to force you to forgive them and to force you to move on. they are drawing a line under it when it is not necessarily their line to draw.

welcome anyone lickety
sorry I am off on a rant already this morning
chamomile for me I think.

anyone, everything that mink said, that is a clear way of looking at it. (not ranty at all!!!)
And if I had a pound for every 'I'm sorry, let's move on' text message I had ££££££... And yes, you are right, if I was still upset and struggled to move on then it was me being negative, causing more problems - sound familiar? An apology means trying to make sure that thing doesn't happen again. If an apology is just a way to draw a line and move on with no attempt to change behaviour, then it's meaningless, like you say.

YY Mink - I agree A FW apologises to force you to forgive them and to force you to move on. they are drawing a line under it when it is not necessarily their line to draw. well put.

For me an actual apology is just part of a process of demonstrating an understanding of what impact something that was said or done has had. I think it is a vital part of maintaining the bonding and attachment in a relationship. The FW just wanting to put a situation behind them causes problems for the relationship to move forward. Repeated over and over damages the relationship beyond repair.

I totally agree with the `if' bit - having that in there implies he does not understand the impact of what he has said/done or doesn't care, in fact it was supposed to have that negative impact on you so you will do or not do something they want

I think this is really where I struggled to see things in the beginning - it was seemingly quite small things but a host of these things, never resolved broke the relationship into bits.

But when I have gathered up all the bits over time, as it takes time, there is a pattern forming and a motive behind each an every one of those incidents - the motive was always the same, to control and manipulation meeting only FW's needs.

I must have seen some of it as I did stand up to him and this is when the aggression got worse and he upped the anti. I am learning to just keep the boundaries in place. Sometimes I leaves a gap because most people don't need such high or firm boundaries but I can calmly go and fill it in now instead of running and hiding in fear well not all the time but I am getting there. It is still not nice having to go and fill in a gap but it is coming to me more naturally and surly he will get bored - at the moment he still sees the boundaries as me being unreasonable, he thinks the court officially will come and taken them down and he can run free all over my life and that of my DS - I am starting to get the confidence and understanding to see that this will not happen.

I lot of this is thinking out loud - without having others to bounce things off was also a problem, thank you again - as pony rightly said the other day - most people are really nice but a FW does try to dominate your thoughts and as it is so unusual it is hard to understand - I always think the title of Lundy's book says a lot `why does he do that'? because it takes a long time to understand - I am not sure I ever will fully.

Sorry this ended up very long.

Thankyou both, I told him we will talk later. He replies that he knows he wa wrong but it really affected him that our son doesn't want him at night. I was considering sending this reply should I or should I just let it go and keep my eye on things 'I understand you were hurt but the way you deal with things is not fair or respectful of me it is abusive.

Our relationship needs to change if it is going to continue. It can't go on like this with you lashing out then acting like I'm making a big deal out of nothing then giving the silent treatment.

I want things to get better and for you to work on addressing your issues and not just saying "sorry" then it happens again or you turn it around to me and list all the things I do wrong.'

Obviously, I am no expert, but I think maybe that message needs to be relayed to him somehow, either by text or face to face.

I sort of stopped saying things like that because I got a bit tangled up with it all. He would say threats to end the relationship were a complete over reaction compared to a 'silly argument', if I tried to say it was culmulative, he would ask me what else he had done wrong, I would tell him and he would say I was being unfair, twisting things and made me promise never to throw previous arguments in his face again.

Thing is now, I wish I had said "if you carry on this way, it's going to finish us' more often as I feel now, if I did end it, it would come completely out of the blue for him.