Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

better I am just a normal person. But thanks. I think we all are so used to bad treatment from FWs that normal caring for people seems unusual. People, generally, are lovely, I find.

charlotte talking about my ex makes me panicky too. I'm ok with strangers and my own family but if its people that know us both, I find it really difficult.

bounty hope you are keeping well, it's good to hear from you, but I also say put down the stick.

rose you're attitude sounds kick ass! Go you!

Thanks for the good vibes for my non date. It was good for not a date and id not realsied what an important step this was for me to take in terms of seeing FW for a total FW.

Last night, my friend was happy to buy all the drinks, not that I let him...unlike FW where I had to buy all the drinks. He asked if I fancied meeting up today and when I was drunk, I said yes but forgot I'd promised to take my younger sister to the cinema. My new friend was totally cool with it, no tirade, just said to have a nice time has continued to text. FW took any time I spent away from him as a sleight on him. We did not have to engage in conversation about whether I thought he was handsome. So it was refreshing.

That said, I'm feeling VERY VERY wary and overwhelmed by his niceness. I can't see me being able to pursue relationships or anything for quite a while. I'm going to be happy to hang out with people, but I can't even bring myself to say dating. If he was distant, I'd be all over it. But he's very attentive and its so alien to me. I clearly have a FW hangover and I need to work on that.

Hope weekends are going well.

Oh cross post with pony!

Rose DD will be fine. You will be the strength for her.

Colin I know what you mean about being wary of niceness!!! And you don't have to pursue a relationship. Just fun is fine. Enjoy it!

better and quiet thanks for that document. I have down loaded and will read it carefully. I know exactly why he made me watch that docimentary - because it supported his idea that I should stay no matter what. I cried on the phone to my Mum the next day. Her and my Dad had watched it because they'd guessed that FW might make me watch it (how well they know him) and she said that clearly they had chosen only children with a negative experience, that we couldn't see the impact that the parents staying together could have had, and that those children may well still turn into well rounded individuals who in hindsight as adults are grateful for their parents separating.

mink thanks for the menu choice analogy, That is so true. Being a single mother is not what I would have planned, but my ideal choice of a loving normal family is never going to happen either.

charlotte so pleased you've found the 'right' solicitor :)

colin so lovely to hear you sounding happy and positive and enjoying male company

rose you are so right about the difficulty of describing EA. It often seems really petty or trivial written down and a lot of it is the constant drip drip drip of putting you down that causes the most damage. Sounds like you are doing great.I bet you can't wait to get going on the next chapter of your life. Hope he's gone tomorrow so that peace will return to your house.

So glad you have your parents to talk to bounty. They are exactly right re why he did it. Stay strong sweetie.

Hi all hope everyone is ok today x

Not posted for a while on here have posted a couple of times on my old thread though. I have really been trying hard to concentrate on other things and build a life and I've been doing fairly well I think. Problem is if I don't keep myself busy constantly I'm straight back onto thinking about him but sometimes I just need to relax

Has anyone else had the problem of wondering whether their FW was correct about things they accused them of? For example today I'm wondering whether he was right when he said I was controlling him. God I can't even explain what I mean. Basically I'm questioning what I was really like in the relationship, I get the feeling I drove him away.

I'm just concerned that if that's the case I need to recognise my faults so I don't repeat them and carry them into another relationship. I hope this makes sense

Hey jackie, nice to hear from you.

I think we all get accused of being the one 'causing' the problems. That is simply not true, because our FWs would be abusive whether it was to us or some other poor woman. They are abusive, it's part of them, and living with an abusive man is not good for one's self-esteem.
However, we are none of us perfect. Of course we all do have faults, and we have things that we do and ways of being that some people might not like. We might be happy with ourselves the way we are, or we might want to work to do things differently sometimes.
There are also things in us, maybe from our childhood or from past experiences, that make it easier for abusive men to come into our lives, but these are also things that we can work on.

For my part, I know I am stubborn, sometimes to the point of pig-headedness. Sometimes I can be a little pouty and foot-stampy if things don't go the way I want them to. And I'm impatient. And I overthink things to the point of paralysis. However, I also have a real problem with boundaries and enforcing them, and I am desperate to please, and these are part of what made me vulnerable to FW.

I guess what I am saying is that it's normal to feel that you were to blame. He probably told you that you were, and you believed him. But just because he said it doesn't make it true. In fact, because he said it makes it less likely to make it true.

Hi pony thanks for replying

I didn't explain myself very well in the last post. I actually think do recognise my faults I just hate to think they were the cause of the break up. The kept warning me and asking me to change and saying he couldn't put up with my shit anymore. I don't actually think I'm that awful ut he's put the doubt there and I do wonder if anyone else will " put up with me"

That sounds like I've got a real downer on myself and I haven't, not really but you know what FW's do to your head at times

jackie, I got told that too. I got told that I was argumentative and difficult and if i didn't stop being like that I would break us up. He frequently said to me in arguments 'Is this what you did with DS1's dad? Is this why he left you?' (And despite the fact it was me that left DS1's dad, it still made me feel like I was just someone who was difficult in relationships and caused the problems.) He also told me once that no-one else would have me.

I think you know yourself that you are not the one who is to responsible for the relationship's end, except in the sense that you inconsiderately wouldn't give in to FW any more and so he had to leave in order to find someone else who will.

Yes I left my husband of 20yrs but FW loved telling me he was as soft as shit and wouldn't say boo to a goose that's why I managed a long marriage with him. Anyone who wasn't a " pushover" would never put up with me

Hi jackie I think to a FW you will always have major faults unless you choose to be a total doormat (which is what they want). Even then there will be something not right. So when he says you are opinionated then in fact you are just expressing an opinion like any other normal human being, when he says you are self centred then in fact you are simply choosing to do something for yourself rather than pander to him, when he says you are argumentative then in reality you are just sticking to a different viewpoint than his.

That's my experience. That what they would consider normal behaviour for us is being a pushover, and what is normal behaviour for us they class as being controlling.

By the way everyone, it's lovely to be back on here again. Feels safe, supportive, welcoming and so much less lonely than facing it all alone :)

A warm welcome back bounty I know what you mean by it feels safe and warm on here. The understanding and encouragement is wonderful isn't it. At times it's very difficult for people in RL to fully understand

I have to add that in the last 5 weeks MN has been a lifesaver for me. I would have felt totally alone had I not had everyone on here to turn to and I probably would have done something silly like contact him. I'm sorry if I haven't been able to give my support to others as much as I might have wished but have been so up and down. Hopefully things are looking up now

Rose - (NC recently, but have been on here before...) I had another thought for you: I was so inspired by you when you called the University to ask about housing so you could get away from your abusive Twunt! And what would the University housing people say if they now found him at your place on the campus? Please don't jeopardize everything you've worked for toward your Midwife goal!! It's so hard to think long-term, but for you and DD's sake you really need that education. You can do this!! And every time you want to talk with Twunt but don't, you will get stronger; I promise.

You may have a point, whit. But rose do Not use this argument to tell FW that he can't visit - that would just be handing him ammunition imho.

Sorry will catch up on rest of thread, but just wanted to say to bounty, the programme was not called Mum leaves abusive Dad. Had it been, it might have some bearing on your situation.

My experience was both dcs seemed happier, more relaxed, more laughter etc in the house. The difficulties we had related to post-split harrassment and hostility, but that is where you need a solicitor to protect your and dd's wellbeing.

Rose - SilverySoothsayer is totally right! Thank you SilveryS for jumping in. I should have said more than I did. Whew.

My poor dcs will not see much benefit when we leave - too much Disney Dad over the past few months...

FW wants me to pay him a few hundred for the time since I've been "earning" CTC. That'll learn me for keeping it all for myself and dcs. What a generous and reasonable man he is.

Oh, and I should buy a car, which he'll pay half of (he has found two possibilities for me - the gentleman!), or pay half towards his new car, if I insist on keeping the one we've got. Although that would clearly be crazy because blah blah blah.

Am trying to stall on both these counts for as long as possible, but he did get rather annoyed today because "we" had "lost" the only possible car nearby for me. Controlling FW.

Oh, hang on, not remotely controlling, because apparently I suggested to him that he could get a smaller car, four months ago. Therefore cannot criticise him if he tells me what to do.

All rather dull, really!

Charlotte I hope you told him to FOTTFSOF re paying him TC money!

And re the car - control, control, control. I think the solution here is whichever path you can have least involvement from him, which is probably that he keeps his too-expensive car. If you need a car, then you buy a car yourself. If he gives you some money towards it, that would be great, but the decision on which war to buy is yours and yours alone, you don't need him suggesting telling which car to buy. You will go out and choose it yourself, without him. If he doesn't give you money towards the car, then his car goes down as a marital asset to be divide when the two of you divorce. (Check that with your solicitor maybe, but I think that's how it works.)

Well, what I suggested to him was that I keep the car and he have things that added up to equivalent value from the house (which as he likes the expensive furniture and I'm not bothered is fairly straightforward).

That way I get to have a car without paying any money I can ill afford at the moment. But as it was a Suggestion I Made, he didn't even hear it even though I said it twice.

He has shrugged off my statement that it's not safe for DS and DD3 to stay overnight with him since he rarely wakes up till they've been up for two hours. Seems to think that admitting it's a "fair point" is quite enough and now I will let him. Tbf I do have form for letting him have his way on everything... Don't really want to raise this again and annoy him, but guess I have to, rather than let him assume I'm being a doormat about it.

That sounds like a fair suggestion, as long as he wants the things from the house. Put it in writing. Or get your solicitor to. You don't have to not be heard.

And similarly, it's not up to him to say 'this is what I want' re the kids. You are their mother, you are their main carer, they live with you plus he's abusive twat so you need to take the lead and state what will be happening rather than let him dictate. If he disagrees with what you state, and it's reasonable, then you can discuss and move forward. If you don't think it's right then it's a no, and he either accepts that or he takes it to his own solicitor and you maybe move to discussions through mediation (shuttle mediation if necessary).
What has your solicitor said regards contact?

Yeah, you're right. I'll email him in a couple of weeks about it! No strength for it all now. He's being apparently reasonable and yet very irritating at the moment and it's doing my head in!

Who says he's being reasonable? FW? As far as he's concerned, he's been a stand-up guy all this time, and a decent husband and father. He is not a reliable witness to his own reality!