Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi Alice. Think I reached "had enough" at the beginning of this year and have only since then realised that maybe things hadn't been ok for a while. He had an EA a couple of years ago and in response I changed to be everything he wanted...

If I do things his way, and give him all of my attention then things are fine, problem is I realised doing this wasn't been true to myself and was actually destroying me.

Think we would do well to go two weeks without him picking a fight over something stupid. Always me at fault. Before this year I would have modified my behaviour to solve the problem. I have now realised this is now way to live and i'm going to have to be myself... he doesn't like this change at all.

Tonight for example he has gone out, 5 min before he goes he starts a fight about me spending the evening talking to "my male fan club"... WTF? apparently when he was out for a couple of hours last Monday I was chatting to a guy on FB... time I could have been texing him... (we live together he was due home, why would I text him). I did msg someone on Monday, someone who I share a hobby with, talk about the hobby, nothing more. Apparently the only reason men talk to me must be because they fancy me and I am naive to believe otherwise. I "never used to talk to other people", I've got a "secret life" apparently.

The rows are always sex related or me talking to other people related, or I didn't give him enough attention (not enough messaged whilst he is at work etc). I'm always been accused of acting odd, or strange. It all sounds so stupid written down. If I don't agree with him i'm feminist and boring and old.

Last year these constant accusations had me thinking I was crazy. this year I think its him.

skating well, I'll admit, you've got him pegged right as a twat. And I can see where that kind of behaviour is driving you nuts. I guess now it's where do you see yourself in 5 years if you stay? in 5 years if you don't stay? Do you have children?

Oh. And no, you're not crazy. And it kinda sounds like it's him. Just in case that needed to be said.

skating none of that sounds stupid written down. It sounds horribly familiar. It's like Alice said, there's a pattern, a script. Everything you've said there is just... the same as I got. I often got accused of there being something going on (there never was...). I wonder if it's because they judge us by their own actions, so if they are flirting with women, they assume we must be doing similar. You are right. It is him. Take some time to look through the links at the top of the page, and maybe try and get hold of Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That?' which is a godsend of a book.

I am sitting here with my curry, having opened the bottle of champagne cheap fizzy wine that FW bought me last year for our first wedding anniversary. He said we should save it to open when I moved back (me having moved out 2 months previously). I thought I would save it for something else. I don't know when we'll get divorced, so seems pointless saving it for that, but yesterday our house is finally sold, and I decided that was a watershed, and I am now going back to my maiden name. I have started the process of changing everything - banks, telling friends, etc. So that is what I am drinking to tonight, with my occasion champagne cheap fizzy wine. To me, and the journey I have been on. It's ok to be who I am, whoever that is. Everything is ok. Cheers ladies!

Congratulations on all that, pony!

Hi skating, I was on your recent thread. I'm glad to hear of your change in thinking from last year to this, realising it is he who has the problem. Did you read the Lundy book?

Belated congratulations to Rose on the house, which sounds fantastic.

And well done, No, for the 101 call.

Thanks all.

No kids. Not Married. joint mortgage and financially very tied.

In 5 years time, I don't know, 12 months I would have said married with kids. Now its not the right place for either of those. If I stay I see things been the same and me kicking myself for wasting 5 more years going in circles. If I go I see i'll be in another relationship with the same problems and i'll be wondering why I put myself though so much stress. Cant help but think its better the devil you know. How sad is that.

Oh and if hes judging me by his standards, sending 150 text messages a day is perfectly fine apparently.... i'm unreasonable for questioning it... right.

I've started to keep a record so I can see them as related things not just stand alone incidents. Will look for the book.

Basically he doesn't like me not giving him 100% of my attention. No one can give someone else 100% of themselves all the time though. If I even read a book he sulks and strops.

Cheers Pony - non fizzy here but i'll raise you a glass

I'm sure even if you did everything he asked or expected, even if he'd not communicated his expectations, he'd still find a reason to be dissatisfied!

There's a great course called the Freedom Programme, which can help a lot with seeing these unhealthy relationships for what they are, and breaking free so you don't end up in a similar one next time. I'm planning to stay away from relationships at least until I believe that a happy, relaxed and equal one is possible!

Cheers skating .

150 texts a day???? Who to?
There's no reason to think that if you go into another relationship that it'll end up the same. The choices, as I see it are: stay, and you know it'll be awful. Or go, and it might still be awful, but there's also a pretty good chance that it wont be. The devil you know, or a blank slate.

Hi everyone - feel sort of guilty of having managed to almost put Fwitery behind me and enjoy some sunshine.
No how did you get on with the police? you have done the right thing. My friend and I had to do that. He tried other tactics to get to her but all avenues blocked off now.
Great news rose you have made some great positive steps forward.
alice glad it went ok today, but doesn't it say something when normal behaviour is out of the norm. Hope you have a nice day planned for tomorrow with the DC.
Them threatening/ saying DC will live with them always makes me think what would they do if we bluff.. asking a pre schooler where they want to live shows how responsible they would be though hey.
Have a bit of an `indirect' problem with FW but not sure how much I can say without being outted.. I will try and think of a way and come back on but having an early one tonight had a few got smashed with a very good friend last night, not laughed so much for a long time.

skating sorry you're going through a rough time. It sounds as if you're just realising how bad the relationship is, but I don't agree that if you leave you'll just be in another relationship with the same problems. I don't speak from experience, as I've been stuck in this one since 19. But there are countless examples I've read on here, of people that have moved on, and discovered that normal relationships exist. The freedom programme is supposed to be good at helping you identify those red flag signs that should help you spot it early on.

alice pony I would love to communicate with him by email only, although I know again he would be fuming at the suggestion. He objects to putting anything in writing, will not text or email, says it's me not communicating properly if I refuse to talk to him about our daughter.

alice when I say I had to eek it out of him... He phoned sounding apologetic, but actually said 'I wish I hadn't said those things'. When I said that wasn't an apology he said 'I really shouldn't call you after I've had a beer'. I was fuming, and he eventually said he was sorry once I'd quoted back to him what he said. He will not back down on the fact that my friend should 'back out' (she's not butting in, just being my friend!). I won't have him isolating me from her.

This morning I said I wanted a peaceful day, and would speak to him tonight. Now DD is fast asleep I really need to ring him and finish the conversation. I'm trying to put it off but should just get it over and done with. He wants to talk about who's the main carer which is something we will never agree on.

Charlotte, yes I that's the same book isn't it. Yes I have it and have kinda skim read, interesting at some points, not relevant at others. Need to read it again when I can.

I'm probably big enough to know whats going on isn't sustainable without the help of a book but its so hard to acknowledge that things aren't okay isn't it. There are the odd moments when its all so clear, but then, times when its not clear at all.

When you're constantly being challenged for being you its hard to trust your own opinions

No if you don't feel like having the conversation tonight you don't have to darlin. I'd be tempted to turn the phone off.

better x-post... They're due to be coming to see me tomorrow. Don't know whether to tell him that I've called them... But no idea why I would do that. My worry is that we speak tonight, reach a cautious truce, and then the police turn up to talk to him tomorrow and it all goes downhill again. Blinking egg shells, you'd think i'd got rid of them when he moved out.

No - you don't have to be dictated to by him. If you want all communication to be via email, then you are perfectly within your rights to say that. He can object, sure, but he can't refuse (and if he does, you take that to your solicitor, that he's being obstructive when you are trying to communicate in a normal, rational manner). I know it's hard, so early on, to get back a sense of 'hey, hang on, I don't actually have to do what he says'. Either don't call him, or text him to say you'll speak to him tomorrow. Put some boundaries up, as a new start.

No Pony is spot on. Please don't tell him you have called the police that is your private business. I was still am not great with boundaries. Putting them in place for the first time is sooo difficult. You are not sure yourself what you want yet in terms of how it would be better to communicate with him, so you are not being unreasonable on any level for not wanting to have to make decisions tonight. keep strong.
The feeling you get when the boundary is in place is not how I thought it would be - there has been no regret it makes me feel stronger I promise you.

I did it! Texted to say I didn't want to talk tonight. How ridiculous that I was shaking when I clicked send. He replied 'OK', and now i'm sat worrying about him, as he'll be sat stewing for an extra night. And then cross with myself as I know it's just him sucking me back in again. I am the kind of person that gives a damn, and I feel like I'm trying to change my actual personality by not giving a damn. It's so so hard.

Well done No - that's a first step towards getting yourself back.

I think a lot of us on here are people who 'give a damn' - that is how we all get so suckered in. What I am trying to do right now is not give less of a damn, but to know when it's actually ok to not give a damn. When I'm perfectly entitled to not give a damn, and when in fact it's not my responsibility to give a damn but I would have previously made it mine because I can't help myself. But it is hard, it's taken me a long time to get here. But this thread has helped me soooooo much.

And I reckon it's ok not to give a damn in this instance, because I wonder if he'll be stewing at all, No? It seems quite common FWy behaviour to switch off from things totally and then pretend to have been all worked up when the conversation is restarted later...

skating I just read your most recent thread, in which you articulate very well the doubts and uncertainties that come with beginning to wake up. We have all gone 'is it me?' but it really isn't.

pony charlotte My problem is that unless he's considered main carer, he apparently can't get a housing association house (how much information counts as outing yourself?!). So I can't see him getting over this one easily. For DD to keep in contact with her Dad, he needs a house (he'll be homeless in about 3 months time otherwise). So I do feel like I should give a damn. Having said all that... when I ask for details about the system, or bring up other options, he won't talk about it, says he's already thought of everything, done lots of research, and clearly doesn't want my input.

I'm willing to help him sort it out, but am not willing to state he's the main carer in order that he gets a house.

He has a valid argument not that I would admit it given we share the care at the moment. But given he's so unstable I need to fight this all the way.

No - this is his problem. If he doesn't have a house, he can still see DD (taking her out, contact centre, etc). If he can't get over the fact that it's not your responsibility to sort out his housing for him, then that is his issue. Not yours. If he can't get a house, he can't share care.
Are you 50-50 at the moment?
I guarantee, even if you turn yourself inside out to help him, he will metaphorically kick you in the teeth first chance he gets.

no he might like a housing association house but those are not the only places he can live. he can rent. the others are right. it is his problem. he is being manipulative.
notice he wants a HA house so needs to get his way. he wants to talk but not in writing. where is he considering what you want or what you need or what DD needs.

I agree no. This is HIS problem, not yours. This is just another way he is manipulating you to agree to what he wants without regard for what is best for his child or for you. I agree with pony that he will at first opportunity use it as a stick to beat you with or end up using it to cause you more problems.

Best thing is not to question his research or get involved in the ins and outs of it in any way. As soon as you do, he's sucking you in to his argument. Don't ask for details or how it all works or why he needs to be the main carer for a HA home. The less involved you are in his decisions, the easier it is to stay completely out of it.

This was really hard for me, as I'm used to sorting things out for H all the time. And I have to constantly remind myself that not only does he need to fend for himself, but I do not need to discuss my decisions with him either.

It's time to be selfish no. It's okay to put yourself and your DCs first, and let him flounder a bit and sort out his own stuff. The big telling thing here is that he refuses to discuss it - his general thought process on this one is "just do what I say and don't question me" - at least that's the impression I'm getting. You don't have to go along with it.

Get that mirror out. Stand in front of it. Say "no." No explanation. No justification. "No." It's a complete sentence. Keep practicing it. I keep reminding myself that I don't need to explain. We're used to having to justify ourselves - it's the conditioning - Just Say No.