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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I can't seem to be friends with men without them trying it on

184 replies

Isitallmyfault · 10/06/2013 20:19

Is it my fault? Do I give off some weird kind of vibe? I'm married. Whenever I have a male friend they absolutely always try it on or an inappropriate. I don't even think I'm pretty this is no way a stealth boast. I'm so fed up with it. Maybe I give off a cheap/slut vibe or maybe I encourage it somehow. So pissed off at being flung into yet another awkward situation.

OP posts:
garlicgrump · 12/06/2013 14:46

I've been out of work for a while and find I can be too casual in professional situations YY, Springy, this! (me too, sharing your blush)

garlicgrump · 12/06/2013 14:49

No, fgs, Clarice, there have been some well dysfunctional replies on the thread! People of assorted gender & sexual orientation can share meals, drinks, conversations and even dance in the coolest & loveliest of locations, without getting it on. It's all about nuanced communication. It always is. Anybody who can't recognise a derailment, or deal with one, is socially maladept. If it always happens to them, they're doing something wrong.

garlicgrump · 12/06/2013 14:50

This is reminding me of the Big Bang Theory now Grin

eccentrica · 12/06/2013 15:38

Offred "Can women really not wear a short skirt and blonde extensions because they like them and not be assumed to be doing it for attention? Such double standards."

Oh, I'm pretty sure if I saw a man in a short skirt and blonde extensions I'd assume he was doing it for attention too Smile

Branleuse · 12/06/2013 16:00

since when is coming onto someone or flirting with a friend, sexual harrassment??

You either learn to fend off advances if youre flirty and friendly with men, or you adjust how you act. Its called social skills. Men arent mind readers. They frequently get it wrong, and tie themselves in knots (is she interested, isnt she) tbh, women do too at times, although tbh, men are much more likely to be interested at any one time than a woman is, and a lot of men are ok with being knocked back and certainly arent offended by someone coming on to them, even if theyre not interested, in the same way that women are.

blueshoes · 12/06/2013 16:15

Agree with Branleuse

Isitallmyfault · 12/06/2013 16:36

Gah. This has taken off a bit. I didn't boast about being fun/up for it at all. I also do not want/ enjoy it.

I don't even go out seperately with these men is normally a couples thing. I'm sure I don't encourage it. I like male company, I don't want to just have friends with girls. Surely you shouldn't be expected to explain to any men you are friendly with that you don't intend to sleep with them? Especially when most are married or in long term relation ships?

The abuse thing possibly makes sense, I was sexually abused horrifically as a child, I never told anyone this have never had counselling etc, perhaps I seem vulnerable?

I don't wear revealing clothes (too fat Grin). Um trying it on as in really v brazen proposition in text, starts off with friendly and quickly changes, I don't encourage this. Or following me to the toilet in pub etc there are numerous occasions.

OP posts:
Trinpy · 12/06/2013 17:02

Honestly, Im not sure that there's much you can do. One of my close friends has been an out and proud ( very proud!) lesbian for years and after ending her last ltr with her ex gf she found almost all her straight male friends were suddenly coming on to her.

I used to have lots of male friends in my late teens and now the only ones I'm still in contact with are gay. The others either came on to me or got a gf and lost interest. These were seemingly decent guys who I'd been friends with for years and I thought we had a genuine friendship. Sorry, I know that's not much help.

Offred · 12/06/2013 17:05

You may well be giving off a vulnerable vibe then and attracting nasty men, that's not your fault. :(

Have you had some counselling/support for the abuse?

It might be worth exploring that option now even if you've had some before.

springytate · 12/06/2013 17:06

I'm so sorry to hear about your childhood sexual abuse OP Sad

Offred · 12/06/2013 17:08

Oop, should have read that properly! Kids around! Sorry.

getlucky · 12/06/2013 17:54

If you all go out in couples I can't see why you are texting the men.

Helltotheno · 12/06/2013 18:21

Sorry that you were abused OP :( What offred said above about the counselling...

I like male company
So do I, and actually a lot of the time, feel I don't have enough. But in practical terms, it's a minefield, it just doesn't really work in the same way it might when you're free, single no responsibilities, even though I believe in general men and women can be friends.

I don't get the thing still about you exchanging numbers with them. Can you give an idea how that plays out? Is it you organising big groups to go out and texting the men? Do you ask for their numbers, or they yours?

Ilikethebreeze · 12/06/2013 18:26

I dont get the texting either.
Is your husband texting the women?

It could be the modern way now, but I can see that it makes this osrt of thing easier.

On another note. And I say this very gently.

It is just possible that the men have found out about the abuse, and that this has altered their behaviour in some way or other? Dont quite see how, but just thought I would say that.

garlicgrump · 12/06/2013 18:33

Thank you for your reply, Isit. It must have been a bit scary to read your whole thread! I'm sorry to hear somebody abused the child you were :(

I agree that your early experiences are likely to have left you vulnerable (attracting twats, therefore) and with odd boundaries, which can throw anybody off balance, twat or not. There's another thing which you may not wish to read in the next paragraph, about boundaries and expectations.

Sexual abuse in childhood can have very confusing effects on the child's sense of identity growing up. While knowing it was wrong and that she was abused by someone who should have known better, she was nonetheless a child and, as such, being shaped by the actions and attitudes of those around her. She was sexualised too young by an abuser - and, too often, given implicit or explicit messages by her 'responsible' adults that she should go along with it. One frequent consequence of this is that she grows up to perceive her identity - her value and purpose, if you like - as a temptress of men. This can happen against all conscious choices and decisions, as it had with my rehab friend. Despite knowing 80% of the safe social 'rules', those misplaced boundaries and abusive training/grooming will show up in her behaviours.

One completely inevitable effect of childhood abuse, by the way, is that it leaves us too tolerant of twattish/abusive behaviours in others. As this plays out, then, you tend not to fuck people off when they first show a 'red flag'. This emboldens them. As they move through the steps of an "abusive dance" (social interactions with boundary-pushing,) we automatically respond in ways that encourage their bad behaviour. It's not our fault - it's the fault of those who taught us, as children, to be abused. But if we want to alter this, it is down to us to find out how and to make the changes. The good news is that therapy teaches us how, and we do learn.

I hope you're feeling okay about your replies.

AnyFucker · 12/06/2013 18:44

I asked very early on why all these men had OP's personal mobile number. OP hasn't answered the question. I think it's a pertinent one, but not necessarily a victim-blaming one.

Offred · 12/06/2013 18:59

Why is it relevant at all? On it's own it's just a question but on this thread it implies that texting or giving your number out is a green light for a proposition! Confused It is woman blaming because you're asking the op to justify herself and accusing her of provocation.

No-one knows why they have her number, couples often share numbers, she might have given her number to them, why does that matter exactly? What is wrong about it?

Offred · 12/06/2013 19:02

And yes, some misogynists as mentioned previously who are incapable of viewing women as anything other than sex objects might take that swapping numbers as a come on. Anyone with a level of decency and respect would not view it as a green light for a proposition. I mean how exactly are you meant to communicate with acquaintances/friends of any gender if you can't give out your mobile number?

AnyFucker · 12/06/2013 19:14

I haven't accused her of anything. I am asking why all these men have her personal number. Why give it in the first place ? It's outside of my sphere of experience. Are we not allowed to ask questions ?

Sexual predators are relatively rare. It should be a given that if you hand your mobile number to a bloke he doesn't start sexting you, or go for an innocent wee he doesn't follow you to the bogs to proposition you.

It happens to most of us occasionally. OP certainly seems to have had some very bad luck to encounter all these predators, or she needs to make a whole new set of friends.

Ilikethebreeze · 12/06/2013 19:34

I knew AF asked the question at the beginning. But because I and I suspect AF may be a couple of decades older than the op, and I know that younger geenerations have different social protocols, I too didnt question it again.
But it is becoming a more and more relevant question I think.

AnyFucker · 12/06/2013 19:42

These repeated sexual approaches...are they by the same small cohort of men doing it repeatedly ? In which case, take their phone and delete your number from it. They have abused the privelige of you providing them with your personal mobile number.

Or a sustained stretch of different men, making individual unwanted sexual advances one after the other ? In which case, your choice of friends is seriously skewed.

garlicgrump · 12/06/2013 20:03

My mobile number's online. I don't get unsolicited booty calls Grin

Offred · 12/06/2013 20:16

I don't think it is beyond the bounds of belief that sexual predators (I don't think they are all that rare) might be drawn to someone who is vulnerable or that a social group which tolerates sexual predation might include a number of sexual predators... So I think perhaps looking at the social group if they are couple friends rather than people OP is actually selecting.

The issue about what the op does about the pestering is something she can gain control over if necessary but still giving someone your mobile number is not a come on, someone having your number does not mean you gave it to them either. My now husband's cousin once text stalked me after getting my number off my friend, I had never and still have never met him, it was creepy but he has his just desserts (he is married with 3 children) now. We found out that he was DH's cousin when we were planning wedding invites.

Them having her number surely has no bearing on whether they proposition her or not, it is simply one of the vehicles for how it is carried out.

Helltotheno · 12/06/2013 20:25

I know what you're saying offred but the question here is more around at what stage of knowing someone do you give out your mobile number? I'm just trying to understand how it goes down in this case, if all these people are part of couples. Is it like 'ok give me your number and next time we're all going out I'll text you to let you know' or is it 'Hi I'm x, yada yada yada, here's my mobile number'?

Remember the OP is married... all these men are married. I dunno, maybe I'm just more reserved, that I don't give out my number to everyone I have a cursory convo with (unless there's a specific reason, like part of the same organisation, hobby etc).

Ilikethebreeze · 12/06/2013 20:27

The op says that whenerever she has a male friend "they absolutely always try it on or an innappropriate".

That doesnt happen to the rest of us does it?

I am wondering op, if someone is spreading or has spread untrue rumours about you.
Because for all male friends to do it, is very unusual.
And worrying tbh.