I can't seem to be friends with men without them trying it on

[Isitallmyfault]

Is it my fault? Do I give off some weird kind of vibe? I'm married. Whenever I have a male friend they absolutely always try it on or an inappropriate. I don't even think I'm pretty this is no way a stealth boast. I'm so fed up with it. Maybe I give off a cheap/slut vibe or maybe I encourage it somehow. So pissed off at being flung into yet another awkward situation.

springy I think the combination of friendly, interested, nurturing and massive norks is probably what does it!

But if it really bothered you (as the OP claims it does) then yes, you could act less friendly and it would make a difference.

So how does OP 'act less friendly' and have a friendship with a man, then? This is her dilemma.

I think the combination of friendly, interested, nurturing and massive norks is probably what does it!

Yes, a lethal combination

I'm interested in the definition of 'friend' too. I have male friends that I've had for a long time, either exes or guys I ended up friendly with. How do I define a friend? To me, it would be someone I'd text to see if they could go to a movie, out for a drink, meet for coffee, out in a gang etc. But because I have a family, this is not a regular occurrence... it just can't be because my family is first priority and I'm not free to do a lot of socialising.

But the whole thing of getting new male friends when you're already with someone and have DC etc is a different ball game, partly because of how society sees it. There are lots of other factors to consider.

OP hasn't given much information but I'm not seeing 'friends' in her OP according to my definition of the word, I'm seeing her chatting to men, exchanging numbers at an early stage, maybe becoming too friendly at an early stage, doing the 'I'm such a wild child' thing... sorry but that's not friends even though OP might choose to use that word....

I'm not judging the OP, I just don't think she's looking at herself objectively. Also, she's said every man she tries to be friendly with hits on her. So we're saying all these men are twunts then? Really?

yy it's funny in a seaside postcard way, but it's not funny when you're on the end of it. What do I do, bind them up? I have a friend who has had reductive surgery is that the right word because of enormous norks and it being nigh impossible to talk to a man without silly stuff going on. It's fucking boring.

Sorry to be touchy but it's a PITA to be viewed entirely as a pair of tits.

Do you keep eye contact for extended periods of time? I think alot of flirting is down to eye contact.

We all give off vibes, by wild do you mean lacking in decorum and having pretty extreme boundaries?

If you don't want the come on's, you can make it clear in pretty subtle ways that you don't want them. It's a personal choice.

but it's a PITA to be viewed entirely as a pair of tits.

You're right.. I can understand why you're touchy. We live in a highly sexualised society where it's considered by many men, old and young, to objectify women and normal people like you have to suffer the consequences of that...

And I have felt objectified on here re big tits, what do you expect hahaha

Not funny.

considered ok...

Agree.

Don't worry, once you hit the menopause, go grey and your tits sag, you will become completely invisible to men

In the meantime, do you have a strategy for dealing with these awkward encounters? Maybe if you had a method of brushing the overforward men off politely but firmly (don't ask me how - someone else will tell you) then you would not find it so annoying.

there already notasaint , on every count. Tis the reason for the bosoms. Which makes it all the more unfathomable that I get the attention I do, as I fall entirely short on the young/nubile front.

I'm with OP, I find it all unfathomable if I'm honest. A lot of posters are suggesting OP is inviting the attention somehow, albeit in an unconscious way. So it's her (my) fault?

i think a lot of people seem to forget, that even in modern times, with equality, and self control, we are all still animals, and we all have hormones, and lots of people want to get it on with lots of other people. If youre going to have male friends, then you need to be very clear to them that you do not want to fuck them ever. Otherwise, they will likely think that they might get lucky at some point. You dont have to tell them outright obviously, but just in terms of your behaviour.
It takes a very special sort of modern man who can actually do platonic friendships properly. Its not a natural state, and even those who can do platonic friendships, probably fantasise about sex with you at times.

You dont have to be close friends with everyone, even if you get on great.
I know some great guys, but theyre not close mates, because theyre men, and I cant be doing with those sort of dynamics. Its tiring

I'm also very uncomfortable with the idea that she's 'inviting attention'... distastefully close to 'asking for it'. FFS I thought MN was better than that.

A lot of posters are suggesting OP is inviting the attention somehow, albeit in an unconscious way

Well y'know let's not be disingenuous here... someone comes on a thread and says all the men she tries to befriend hit on her? At the very least, are we just going to take her word for it?
Also, I did discuss the whole matter of the definition of friend above, and others have talked about the business of being a certain way in certain situations/with certain people and how really one needs to at least exercise self-awareness about that. Deep down, do they need to be that way because some need is not being met somewhere else? It goes a little deeper than saying she's flirting, inviting attention etc. I don't have words like 'slapper' in my vocab tbh.

Your situation is different. You have my permission to vent your spleen on leerers however you see fit :)

"At the very least, are we just going to take her word for it?"

Yes. Remember 'we believe you'? If she's a friendly, fun-loving, attractive person and either doesn't see how the other person is responding or is too polite to tell them to get lost, yes, it happens.

"Deep down, do they need to be that way because some need is not being met somewhere else? "

There's no 'deep down' . Introverts aside, most approach social encounters being pleasant, friendly and wanting others to like them. I don't think the OP necessarily has 'unmet needs'....

Cogito if you cast your eye over the thread, you'll see that the men in question have pretty much been vilified and they're all totally in the wrong. I can't jump on that bandwagon myself because I haven't seen enough evidence in the OP's posts of what exactly the dynamic is here. All I can glean from the little info she's given is that she's looking for men friends but she hasn't said what her definition of friend is.

OTOH, the incident springytate described is very different.

a friendly, fun-loving, attractive person

God, she's just asking for it, then apparently . She can't go around being warm, great fun, attractive - what does she expect?

You better rein that in my girl. Or we'll send you to the laundry.

Not aimed at you cogito , just using your quote.

I'm getting wound up here. Time for tennis

When the OP and others say that men hit on them out of the blue, could it be because they are less tuned in to social signals than other people?

By being friendly and chatting, they are not only unconsciously giving off availability signals to men they are talking to but also - because they are too busy being interested (which is a good thing) - do not always recognise and dampen down the subtle reciprocal signals from the men they are talking to. So, it slowly escalates unbeknown to them, until the man makes the move ? Perhaps it was not out of the blue, the OP just did not see it coming.

In a conversation, there could be various points at which a topic could go from safe territory into more of a come-on. If that happens, I would either change the direction of the conversation or do something to break the mood so it never strays into unsafe territory. This can happen more than once in an interaction. It is normal for (some) men to test the waters very subtly at first but if the OP does not push back, then they might see it as going from amber to eventually green. Just a theory.

Out of interest springey, are your norks on constant display? Or when you get the looks or whatever?

Shame the op isnt back yet.

What is wrong with suggesting that men (in this case) who make unwanted sexual advances are in the wrong?

I don't see myself as responsible for how other people choose to react to me in the ways suggested on this thread.

I will not modify my dress so that it is frumpy rather than an expression of my sense of self, I will not avert my eyes from men coyly, I will not avoid being without a chaperone, I will not modify my conversation or my body language because none of those things should be seen as an invitation to impose sexual attention that is unwanted.

Assuming it is actual sexual attention and not just misreading, the part which is not clear to me from the op is how she is expressing her offence at these come ons to the men in question and also how it is affecting whether the friendship continues after the unwanted sexual attention.

There are a lot of idiots, modifying yourself so you don't 'provoke' them simply prolongs the agony. If they're going to perv better to find out sooner rather than later and respond to it strongly, which is hard...

Women I think are socialised to be sexually available to men and passive and unchallenging when they are being bothered by unwanted sexual advances as well as there being a problem with the way some men cannot view women as anything other than sexual objects.

Cogito I knew it wouldn't be long before someone suggested that answering the OP's question "Is it my fault? Do I give off some weird kind of vibe?" with a qualified "yes, probably", is tantamount to being a rape apologist.

It's really not the same thing whatsoever, but I'd forgotten that this is the internet, where all experience of real life has to be suspended in order to make sure you don't find yourself lumped in with rapists, Islamist oppressors, medievalists, misogynists, and the rest.

Perhaps you're right, Cogito and Offred. Perhaps the OP is just so irresistible that every single man she meets is compelled to come on to her, or perhaps she's had unparalleled misfortune since (in her words) "absolutely every" man she meets is a predatory near-rapist, and that none of it whatsoever has anything to do with her behaviour, her "wild" reputation, her swapping numbers with all of these men, or anything else she's ever done or said.

Therefore there's nothing whatsoever that she can do to change it, so that answers her question. ALL the men she meets are coincidentally sexual predators. All she can hope to do is to have better luck in future, or to meet a good fairy who can lift the spell of irresistible sexual appeal.

Off away from this thread now as god knows what the next lot of accusations would be.

Putting aside all talk of clothing, body language etc., it might be helpful to look at environmental factors:

Choices:

inviting them over in the evening after the children are asleep
sitting together on the sofa
eating a meal together in the evening
sitting together in a bar with alchohol and a cool soundtrack

vs.

lunchtime in a cafe
meeting between other appointments, so you are going somewhere afterwards
Sitting at the table
meeting, with others joining you later
going for a walk around town

Both sets of situations enable you to get together with a male friend, but the top set also carry connotations of intimacy and privacy, which might lead to someone acting on mistaken ideas of a possible sexual relationship.