Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks for the welcome. The name was an attempt at the positive, rather than the first 10 which sprang to mind along the lines of 'weakmindedandpathetic' and 'cantconcentratewilllosejob' and 'howdidIenduplikethis'. Don't even know why I'm so miserable tonight, things are slowly on the up. It's just been such a battle I feel like I haven't yet had the chance to grieve for things. Not even sure what I want to grieve for. The fact I've wasted 15 years (except for DD obv), or the relationship which didn't work?

I did everything she asked and still she wants to divorce makes my teeth itch! One of the reasons I want a divorce: because he expects me to take responsibility for his behaviour ie tell him what to do and what not to do.

Don't know about seeing the phone, sorry. I guess if you ask and he doesn't show you straight away you can be suspicious, but he could easily sneak away under some guise and delete incriminating evidence, couldn't he? I worry you wouldn't get a conclusive answer - but perhaps that's my excuse for avoiding the confrontation!

bounty that's a hard one. I don't know all of your circumstances. i was going to say straight away - you should be entitled to see the messages, he's out of order if he says no.

But what if he's not having an affair, but confiding in her as a friend? What if she's been a sounding board for him - you might end up reading something which hurts, even though they're not having an affair?

I'd ask anyway, mind... you can probably tell a lot from his reaction...

One of the reasons I want a divorce: because he expects me to take responsibility for his behaviour ie tell him what to do and what not to do.

Soooooooo this!! And to top it off, even if I do this, I get shouted at - either shouted at to stop telling him what to do or shouted at that he's fine and can continue what he's doing (even though he wanted me to remind him not to). I am not going to be his police officer anymore. Except obviously for when he is being aggressive/verbally abusive with the children.

Does anyone else feel so frustrated and upset all the time that they just want to scream? Like they can barely contain their anger at their H for their dreadful behaviour?? I was hoping to get in and get counselling organised for myself this week, but sick children put paid to that plan. And no chance to go in next week as the children are home from school all week (and are walking tape recorders, so can't do things in front of them unless I want to risk it getting repeated in front of H).

I went and vented to a friend (who just separated from her EA partner ironically enough) and she is lovely and supported. Thank goodness she is there for me and "gets it" so I don't feel like I'm going totally crazy. But god, the aggravation sets my teeth on edge.

noregrets On and off over the last few months I have read quite a lot of texts on the rare occasions that he leaves the phone out but they have never been supportive or about me at all. I won't bore everyone by trotting them all out again but they are things like 'night night you' most nights and a red heart on valentines day and 'happy birthday darling man' etc etc. All stuff that I think means affair but he has categorically denied as being just a good friend. If I do ask then he would either have to show me there and then or I wouldn't trust anyway. Plus I know there is always a risk that he has deleted anything other than benign chat ... but then why putting on the passcode?

I just wondered really whether I was being unreasonable in asking in the first place. I realise it probably won't give me the answers I need.

I get the frustration thing too alice

The niceness is even harder to deal with. Aaarrrggh. I want to be angry but then suddenly I find that I'm the one being unreasonable

bounty, truly I think the only relevance of the phone is that if there is an OW, it makes it cut and drie for you. He will be in the wrong and you can leave with the world and its granny understanding he is in the wrong and you have every righto to leave.

Without the phone, you still have no trust, you have all the other issues, you have your rented place ready,, but you need to be the one to instigate the break up and have the world and it granny raise their eyebrows and wonder why.

The question would be- if there was no OW,or is no OW, - would you actually still want to leave? If the answer is yes, the phone is irrelevant, you are going anyway; if the answer is no, then you need to see the phone.

If that makes sense. Falling asleep here!

bounty god no in that case you're not being unreasonable, although it doesn't sounds like you need to read any more to know what's going on?

noregrets I thought it was cut and dried and undeniable in my mind until I confronted a fortnight ago and he came up with some far fetched but in theory possible excuse. But now I've mulled it over I'm still not satisfied with the explanations.

butterfly there is def no trust. I don't trust him atm and he clearly doesn't trust me or else he wouldn't have put the passcode on. With or without the phone thing I don't think I still want to be married to him. So yes it is immaterial but in a way it is eating at me. I think it might be as it is a much more socially acceptable reason to leave. I need to stop thinking about what others think and start thinking about what I want ...... Am also feeling guilty that he appears to be trying now and I still want out.

I'm trying to think if it was me Bounty

If my partner that I love was worried about texts from a male friend of mine, I'd give him the phone, knowing that he's not stalking me, or everpresent every single time I even speak to another male! I wouldn't want him to be worrying as its a horrible thing to think, and want to sit down and say, why there really isn't anything to worry about. So.. far from 'not minding', I would just hand phone over, or say help yourself, I just don't get it atall! Why would you do that if your partner is evidently worried? Its just being horrible right?

I'm not saying that we can't have stuff to ourselves, but being together is about sharing.

Hey Noregrets its an up and down, hun... a rough with the smooth kinda journey and certainly baby steps, taking care of yourself on the down times and celebrating being yourself during the good. Each thing will come as you move along and have time to process. Your head is full of it, and it really does just make us feel weak/stupid [insert self-insult of choice] but its far frm because we're weak/stupid, its actually because they're nasty, and all manner of horrendous things beyond our comprehension. they are always 60 steps ahead with the insults, put-downs, doubt-feeds, goading, gaslighting, we don't understand these things, when we do we realise what absolute horrors of ppl they are and what chance did we stand, but survived nevertheless. Keep popping back in the Vixens for a regular top up of good vibes, company and the odd dirty wotsit . take care xxx

fairyfi thank you and so true. That's why I came to this board, at least you know what it's like. Got called pathetic on a recent post and it cut me to the core! Just a bit too close to the bone unfortunately. I'm not that person, I'm determined not to be that person, it's just such such hard work :-(
Sorry to be such a downer. I promise I'm not like this all the time!

you don't have to promise anything here... and we have a bit of a rule about apologies too, how they're not expected here. We all need to feel free to moan to our hearts content, to gripe and rant and rage too, and STILL be supported.... its a strange concept to start with, but the feeling it gives is an amazing feeling of support and a sense of moving forward with others alongside. Give yourself the time to feel the huge sadnesses, grief, patiently noticing the different stages you go through. Do keep posting here, rather than there baby steps right now xxxx

butterfly thank you and no I didn't mean anything against you or anyone - I really do need you all to keep my head straight. Thank you everyone. I think I am getting to the point where I am able to identify the main areas I need to work on, in terms of what worries me the most - when it first starts it's everything !!

The circle idea is a good one. I am mad at them for that day but mad at myself for allowing it too - and worried I will do it again I think. I am going to buy a hoola hoop tomorrow... my imagination isn't that good

They drove 30 miles before telephoning, knowing if they were round the corner I would not turn them away. I felt like a surigate that day -neither of them had provided ANY support during the pregnancy, she stood up the whole time and barked orders at me, he sat there like a lemon (victim). The following day was the last time I saw exp for all those years, he came in, demanded (demand man) to take DS with him at the weekend back to his house (with not a single item in it for a baby nor any experience of looking after a baby), we `debated this' and I have to say I didn't have the energy to be anything but calm.... as his fist came up towards me I screamed for him to leave and it went into the hands of solicitors and he never replied to my sol letters.

No I need baby step reminders too - it's not in my nature.... we just want to wave that magic wand don't we.

I've been doing notes for my sol. tonight, internet was slow with DS on the ipad earlier and this site kept crashing on the laptop, wanted to chat to you guys really - must sort out better internet...

Bounty my FW would hate me getting texts for very different reasons - he had no friends (still doesn't) and he hated the fact that anyone male or female would ever text me...... (why I didn't bin him at this stage I will never know)..... so one night he decides to try and get me back... it's hilarious this.... he starts getting texts and I didn't ask who they were from and after each one his laugh got louder.. I ignored him.... in the end he said he was fed up of all these texts and threw his phone down.... and I just asked where they boring you... it was as I suspected his cousin... about 10 years younger than him.... they are just sad.... any weapon they can use to try and piss us off.... why bother..... being more productive just actually gives you a happier life - I know Lundy talks about what they think they get out of it - but in most cases in the end they don't, they just can't see it.

I think with my text thing, I just thought he was pathetic, I didn't realise that it could turn dangerous .. that was the big learner for me.

Alice just read your post about how you react... this is another area I fear - I don't react well .... I saw a course on `managing difficult behaviour' it was work related but I recon the skills could transfer, think I may go on it. I think it includes a buffet lunch

Any advice on how to stop me actually putting a knife in his head one day promise I am not quite that bad....

The thing is Alice... and I think this is important for me to really get a grip of but unsure how to cope with still ... they do it when you are at a low ebb the most, when you are most vulnerable.. so it is harder to react well.

The physical stuff only came when I was preggers....

When exp rocked back up after 7 years of peace, he left a present on the doorstep and card for DS which DS found.... 10 mins after I came into the house with these and was dealing with this and a very confused and frightened DS and an internal feeling of OMG... bang.... an email flies in to me... now they say on TV so must be true that when a bomb goes off, if there are two one shortly after the other they know it is terrorism as it is done so people are panicking over the first bomb and the second will then have more impact...... I only thought about that last night.

better, the thing is, the behaviour you described 4 days post CS, you described my mother, that is what she would do, and so for me, the boundaries thing goes right back to childhood. It is an awful scary feeling standing up to them, and asserting your boundaries, but once you start to do it, you can draw strength from the times you did it before.

Re buying a hula hoop, you can get quite large adult ones, remember you are not constraining yourself either

FW has already lost confidence in our Relate counsellor. Ironically, it's because she seemed to encourage another couple to split up who have since fought to stay together... All weird and a bit of a headfuck, but doesn't really matter in the long run, I suppose.

DD3 up most of last night with earache. Typically at the beginning of a weekend, so two more nights before I can see a doctor! Feeling weary today - hooray for sunshine here to get me through another dull day.

Thanks butterfly I just don't seem to find the right words. On that occassion I said very little but did show my scar to prove I had the op they both looked astounded and disappointed. You make a very valid point about not constraining myself. Off line for a bit now - take care everyone, I will miss you and be thinking of you.

Took DCs to a birthday party today and H managed to shout at DS in front of everyone and then humiliate me further by snapping at me a few times when I told him to calm down.

Thank fuck he's at work tonight, as I cannot even stand to be in the same room with him right now. He was shouting and us this morning as well. He spent the whole time at the party being miserable, and at one point when he was supposed to be watching the children while I was in the toilet was completely ignoring our 3yo who had fallen and hurt himself and everyone was looking for his parent. Where was he? Standing RIGHT THERE ignoring them while messing about on his stupid phone!!!

Hey everyone, hope the sun is shining wherever you are.

Not been on much this week, have been retiring to bed early with a book in an attempt to rediscover myself and the things I used to enjoy doing (and to try and get some more sleep). Former starting to be achieved, latter not so much. cheers, DS2!

Not much to report on the FW front - our house will be sold in a few weeks' time, with any luck. In the next couple of weeks I need to get all my stuff out of there. Head hurts just thinking about it, but I'm largely leaving it to DM and DF to organise (since they seem to be doing that anyway without me asking...) So far, FW has not made any mention of where he's going to after the house is sold, or what will happen re him seeing DS2 (ie is it close enough to stay the same, or will he much further away and we'll need to look at the arrangements). But then, he's still never made any mention to me of him having a girlfriend (who spends time with DS2) either.

But some good news: DS1 had his P3 school report card last week, and we had his parents evening this week. His reports have always been good before, but this time it was stellar! When I met his teacher, she said that he's doing brilliantly at everything, that he's confident and always participating and has great ideas and an advanced reading age! She was his teacher in P2 as well, and there were problems with his behaviour. Nothing horrendous, just couldn't seem to settle. This year he's been fantastic she said, no worries or incidents. Seems a little too coincidental that this whole school year we've been on our own, away from FW. I think no coincidence. I am so proud of my little trooper.

Also, DS1 apparently had something he wrote read out to the whole school last week - he never even mentioned it to me!!!!

pony well done on your DS's progress!

Sorry Alice, x-post. That's horrendous, but at least there were plenty of other people there to witness it. Was there anyone there that you would regard as a friend or ally that you could confide in?

Why did he have to go as well anyway? Did he insist on going along?

And x-post again Alice! Thanks.

pony no, don't know any of them that well. He went because both DCs were going and it was a facility that required both of us to keep an eye on them, as our DC with SNs is a runner and has to be closely monitored (which could mean otherwise our 3yo is not watched very closely), so we both needed to go. He was angry about that too.

Ah, I understand now.
Do you think he deliberately didn't do what he was there to do (keep and eye on your 3yo) to get back at you? I know you said he was distracted on his phone, but I suspect that was a deliberate 'she wants me to watch 3yo, but she can go and boil her head, I'm playing on my phone instead'.
It's immaterial anyway. He's a FW. You are desperately unhappy. I wish you could just leave.

There was a discussion a few pages/days back about whether a FW's abusive behaviour is conscious or deliberate. I think it was Fi who posted a link ages ago to a site where I read something along the lines of: An abusive person is using abuse to get their needs met. In other words - they want to get their needs met, come hell or high water. There's no question of them not getting met, for them that would be disastrous. And they use abuse because it works, it gets them their needs met. It's when it doesn't work that they start using different tactics, the Mr Nice Guy tack, etc, but in the end they are so familiar with abusiveness (and it's worked for them for so long) that they inevitably go back to it.

So I don't think its necessarily conscious or deliberate, but it is a deliberate attempt to get their own needs met above anyone else's, and they are willing to do anything they have to in order to get them met.

Anyway, that's my two-penneth on the discussion!!!

Yes, I agree with that to some extent. I think I keep putting it off because I think deep down he will pull it together. He's not going to, I KNOW he's not going to. Plus the firestorm of his family when it all falls apart, I know I'm just delaying the inevitable.

I worry about the whole solicitor stuff. I just don't trust him not to cause problems once we're separated regarding the children. And it would literally put DCs at danger because of DS's disabilities if he wasn't 100% monitoring them - and he can't be relied to do that even at home, so can't imagine he'd do it if he had them elsewhere on his own. Plus a history of verbal abuse and borderline physical (physical IMO but I'm aware legally it might not be classed as such) regarding the children. I would not be comfortable with anyone other than supervised visitation, which he could fight if he wanted to really cause problems.

Some days I think he is pushing over and over because he wants me to end the relationship, as then people can't say he walked away from his family. (that's a huge sticking point to him)

Alice I don't wanna scream at DP I just feel constantly worn out. Whenever he starts I just feel like I sink a little more like what have I done now

Bounty I don't think it's unreasonable to ask but I don't think your going to get the answers you want/need. If you confronted him 2 weeks ago he's going to be ver carefully about what he keeps on there and what he deletes.

Noregrets you have nothing to apologize for

Pony I think your completely right about abuse not necessarily being conscious or deliberate but it is deliberate toget their needs met above anyone else's.

I'm feeling very tierd and worn out today. I'm out with DD tonight which he isn't happy about so I'm sure this is end up causing me a ton of grief

Alice he might want to say that it wasn't him that walked away from his family but it is him who is making their lives miserable and forcing them away