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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 21/03/2013 20:56

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
TisILeclerc · 12/04/2013 09:22

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minkembra · 12/04/2013 09:29

tisShock

But why would she have that idea?
Did she borrow anything important?

Does the have a diary? Possibly a wee chat saying imagine i 'borrowed' your diary to show someone else. So she gets the invasion of privacy issue?

But more Angry st him for letting encouraging her. and Shock for you at having your space invaded.

You need some kind of vanish stain remover for FW so that once you have spit they leave no trace. if only.

TisILeclerc · 12/04/2013 09:31

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kittybiscuits · 12/04/2013 09:40

Hi tis , oh dear. I would consider a chat with the police on the non emergency number. I believe it's an offence to steal someone's mail. Presumably, if it was all you dc's idea, FW emailed you immediately to explain her mistake and sent the post back to you. And then a pig flew past the window...

Sorry - that must be a bit of a shock x

BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 09:45

Leclerc that's appalling re post, I feel so angry on your behalf

Lemon good luck/ one last push, hoorayGrin

BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 09:47

Thats your poor DD. that's so rubbish of her granddad. What a old fool.

TisILeclerc · 12/04/2013 09:55

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BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 09:56

Yes kitty I think it's a criminal offence to steal others' post, particularly manipulating a minor to do it for you grrrr. Leclerc, Could you call 101 for advice? At least to log the incident? It's appalling.

BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 09:56

Sorry X post!

BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 09:57

Your poor dd how awful that he's manipulating her like this.

FairyFi · 12/04/2013 10:38

Good luck Try for your jam packed session day next week. Just remember both are in your control, you can do/say as much or little as you want. you can just observe and not speak if you want at FP, and obviously the counselling one is your first session and an intro to each other to decide, for you, if this is a person you can do this work with or not.

Good luck lemon too

yes, diverting post is illegal Tis, but be careful as FW might stick with blaming DD (no child would get it in their head to just pass the post to him! [to borrow Hmm ] but if its one word over the other and she's over 12 she can be charged as legally responsible.

I definitely agree with Mink over using her diary/similar to prick her conscience over privacy and respect for other people, I've had to do that here; our home and our things/lives being our own private business, and to be absolutely respected (as he is constantly prying and asking her questions about me/my life, and yet he seeks to be devious, deceitful and highly secretive to the point of causing upsets, over his) Hmm

ponygirlcurtis · 12/04/2013 10:58

Nothing to add Leclerc, other than I agree with everyone - if it really was entirely her idea it wasn't, then he'd have returned the mail immediately. Has there been anything else that she's taken to show him (other than mail, I mean), or any other info she's been passing?
Does he know that you know, and that you've called 101? Maybe he needs to. He's grooming her in such a terrible way.

And on her birthday too. That's an awful situation for you both - because I know you were feeling sad about not being with her, and now possibly feel bad (even though it's not your fault in any way) that she's in trouble on her birthday.

I've just been cleaning and thinking about it (as you do), I wondered whether you need to reveal to her more about the awful way he treated you, so she gets that her dad is not a good man and cannot be trusted. Or maybe that's too much. I just don't know. But then, I thought, Leclerc always seems to know just how to handle situations like this with her DCs so that she is always doing the best for her kids.

Sending you my thoughts, and for everyone else too.

minkembra · 12/04/2013 11:36

I so bet he told her a) it would help you to get back together
b) if you get caught don't tell tis it was my idea or we will never get back together.

What a shit.

She does know you ate not going back to him? It might be worth gently underlining that. we both love you but no mater what he may say we are not getting back together but that does not change the fact we love you sort of style.

As i cannot believe she would do it if she thought it was bad for you so she must have been manipulated into thinking that it was a good thing.

TisILeclerc · 12/04/2013 12:35

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BreatheandFlyAway · 12/04/2013 12:55

Bloody hell leclerc, YANBU Wink

Going back to your dd being manipulated in this way, I agree with mink's thoughts. Is it possible to ask advice of SS?

ponygirlcurtis · 12/04/2013 13:38

Do you think he's gone off with them deliberately, in the hope that he can drop them off to you have a legitimate excuse to doorstep you? I just wondered if, after seeing you at dinner the other night, he might step things up a bit. Maybe I'm wrong though - I know that the whole issue of clothes/toys etc being left at the NRP or not returned is often a contentious issue in ordinary (ie non-abusive) separation situations as well.

Dillie · 12/04/2013 14:15

tis that's awful about the post. I hope your fw is not using dd like that :(

Also I am agreed with pony that it does sound like he is trying to find legitimate ways of harassing you on a low level :(

I can't offer any useful, but strength

betterthanever · 12/04/2013 14:24

Tis this sounds a bit cruel but it is a criminal offence to take mail and I am sure a nice community policeman would have a chat with DD for you. We all know it is his manipulation but I would not even mention it to her, don't give him the satisfaction - if it was say a friend of your DD who was manipulating her into doing something what would you do?

I always try not to treat my FW any different from any other idiot, which I know is easier said than done. Please try and take all these idiot actions as a clear sign he is deperate for attention and he is very, very unhappy.

Please try and keep your barriers with DD as you would without it involving him. Sorry if that sounds bossy, it was advice given to me by a child phycologist. I knew why DS was doing things but he said if I made allowances it would not end well - it quickly rightly itsself and I thank him for that firm advice to me. You will probably be advising me that soon enough when I am on here and unable to take my own advice BlushI know it's brain blocking and just what they want us to feel.

Managed to speak to cafacss and it is good news, they said I was under no obligation to show my DS the book if I wanted things to be discussed with cafcass/the other side first but they could only do it at court and said wait until then and take it from there. I will still get the letter from the head to take I think?

kittybiscuits · 12/04/2013 14:56

That's great news better Smile.

I also agree with better about your DD. I think a visit from your local bobby to spell out the seriousness of the situation would be a great step. Your poor DD does need to realise that it is her who will face the consequences of her actions if she breaks boundaries and/or the law because FW sure as shit wouldn't be stepping forward to take responsibility

Yes, stripped naked is definitely the way to go for handovers Wink

ponygirlcurtis · 12/04/2013 15:03

kitty, you do mean the kids, not Leclerc? Grin

I just posted a reply to better and lost it - the reply, I mean. But basically say good news that you don't have to give the book to DS, and definitely get a letter from the head to give you as much back-up in court as possible. When are you due in court again?

kittybiscuits · 12/04/2013 15:11

Haha pony Grin

TisILeclerc · 12/04/2013 16:44

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arthriticfingers · 12/04/2013 17:19

Leclerc I had a similar experience with a letter addressed to me. It was opened without my knowledge, my signature forged, and the kids involved in lying about it.

The 'excuse', when I found out, was that it was because I was so unbalanced to save me stress.
FW tried to blame the kids Angry, but got very short shrift from me.
However, both teenagers got the bollocking they would have got in 'normal' circumstances and apologized profusely - they said they had understood all along that it was wrong.
Yes, it was FW's fault entirely, but I did not want my wonderful children to fall to his level.

FairyFi · 12/04/2013 17:27

whoa!

Am way too visual to cope very well with all these comments on little Tis and their mum being stripped naked for h/overs!!!!

FairyFi · 12/04/2013 17:36

x-posted there [oops]

agreeing over the children needing to learn the boundaries clearly, no point in him being made aware he'll never fucking change

and yes, each infringement of the returning all property rules should be met with 'bring them back - leaving them outside and not knocking at the door to return! - so no excuse for grabbed/forced contact.

y y to Pony issues over property for apparently normal separating couples.