Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 17

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I know it's better to criticise the behaviour and not the person, so here goes for another attempt: I find his attempts at contact pathetic, clueless, and selfish. To me, they demonstrate that he remains deaf to what I have tried to communicate.

HDLIG I know that too.

so having just heard from my ex I am going to say he is (behaving like) a total arse.

birthday card for dog!!! well if the dog wants to reply I suppose that is her choice.

Leclerc - a nod and wink is as good as a nudge. Or something. So glad your friend is back in touch. You can have a good rant to him. I had to cut contact with several (male) friends at the start of my relationship with FW, it was humiliating and upsetting but he insisted. I hope to one day get back in touch with at least one of them, who was a good pal, but feel to ashamed at the moment.

Breathe - does that mean that he's been ranting at you? Can you record that he's been doing that (I mean as in report it somewhere)? That's not on. The normal behaviour was just a front, as always.

HDLIG - if only he knew that it was his actually attempts at contact that were keeping you remembering why you have no contact! Be selfish, do what's right for you, never mind what he wants/thinks.

Sorry Mink, forgot to add - what's he saying to your proposal? Arse is as arse does, as ever.

FW bingo. he said 'remember I am the victim here' bingo
(not that I abused him but I cruelly left him to fend for himself for some spiteful and mysterious reason of my own.)

accused me of emotional blackmail. yadda yadda. I may ahev had a wee pluck at his guilt strings but only because he should feel guilty about treating his kids differently.

and accused me of being controlling. blah blah.
must have been looking in a mirror at the time.

he also made it clear that his basic objection to seeing the kids more is that he does not want me to get free childcare as an unintended consequence of his access visits. (control. bingo) (arse behaviour!)

and that he can't afford to spend more time with them. really? the park is free. and anyway it is a total lie. I know he has money. he has clearly forgotten I know.

vent vent vent.

his priorities are totally wrong.
priority number 1- punish me.
number 2- money

way way down the list his dcs.

still I got him to send me another 3 or 4 text messages so that will have pissed him off as his phone balance went down. petty, moi? mais non

really though. why am I bothering to try and keep the kids in touch with him. having a father is meant to be good for them so that they see positive male role models. I am not sure he fits the bill

I told him to stop letting his desire to spite me get in the way of his relationship with his kids as ultimately it is him who will get hurt.

I have said that we will stick to the very restrictive window he has chosen on those occasions it is mutually convenient (3 hours this month!) but if at any point he wants to stop trying to be vindictive and see sense then I am here to discuss it.
(because I am an adult) (I am honest I am)

really i should not speak to him at all but...it needs said. even if he is not hearing.

Would have to see the exact text and compare it to his usual style some people are always flirty.
The fact you showed it to your friends suggests you suspect it is flirty and out of character.

Question is do you want him to?
Bit of flirting does no harm and can be great for your morale. might be best though to decide before hand if you only want to flirt so you know when to bring on the cold water or if you want to slowly sizzle

I'm no expert, but a bit of flirting doesn't need to mean a relationship, does it? If he's not a FW, he won't be expecting you to be available for a good while yet. The right sort of flirtation just makes both parties feel good about themselves and nothing more.

I would renew the friendship if it seems appropriate, enjoy the company, but keep things cool, so that you don't get in over your head emotionally more than anything.

Hi ladies, hope it's ok to do this. I just want to say that I have seem to have put my foot down here re going to visit the inlaws! I have been declining to make this trip abroad for the past 18 months. Partner (20 years, committed drinker til recently) had an EA a couple of years ago and started to only talk to his family at work. They stopped ringing the house and have had barely any contact with DCs. He blames me for everything and has little grip on reality. Last time I went there his Dad was very off with me, and more recently his Dad's partner rang to ask me if I am ok because of all the awful things she has been hearing. So I know he has been telling them shit about me - the same shit he told to the couples counsellor we saw. He says he's told them nothing and it's all in my head cos I'm paranoid. He wouldn't tell them about his alcohol abuse and his EA because he 'wouldn't want to worry them'.

He has been pushing and pushing (bullying, stropping, shouting etc) for a 'happy families' trip to his family. He is invariably nice to me in front of them, and mostly horrible the rest of the time. Tonight he tells me he has booked Easter long weekend off and is going to ask the DCs if they will go with him. I said that I am ok with it in principle, but that I do not expect him to book to take children away on a holiday weekend without discussing the dates with me first. I said, for instance, how would he feel if I announced I would be taking them away for Xmas. His answer 'I discussed this with you last week'. Er, no, you didn't. Anyway, sorry for barging in, but just felt that this would be a good place to share this step towards extricating myself from this madness. Because I don't have to go along with his pretence, and manipulation of the truth. Now I need to deliver the news that he cannot take the children unless he agrees to some conditions about their safety - 1) no travelling in a car when the driver has been drinking -2) no drinking himself unconscious when he is their sole carer and 3) if one of them is admitted to hospital he has to tell me promptly (previously this happened due to his carelessness, and he did not notify me for 6 hours though my child's life was in danger). They are much older now and I will want this things agreed in writing. Wish me luck! x

Well that was a short conversation. I made my request. His answer. 'You are trying to destroy the children's relationship with their grandfather. You are just doing this because you are a really difficult and paranoid person. You are just being controlling and now I can't book the flights'. Me - they are perfectly reasonable requests and any normal person would agree to them. Walked out to leave him talking to himself about what is wrong with me. I've hidden the passports and will take them away from the house. Does it seem like a lot to ask? He had my child seriously ill in another country, in hospital for 6 hours before he told me, and he told the couples counsellor that he couldn't see any problem with that and in the same situation he would do exactly the same again. She said 'but kitty is the child's mother and the child could have died'. His response - I would not leave my child alone in hospital for 5 minutes just to tell kitty. Bastard.

quick note to Charlotte re the getting outdoors that Tis mentioned, just cos of your interest and possible inspiration! xx

aw hun... wassup tis I can send note if neeeded..

oh no! ISWYM ... no, that was the 'quick note'

kitty even if he agreed to the conditions, would he stick to them? In the light of the behaviour when your DC was ill abroad, this trip sounds like it should be a no-no, whether he agrees conditions or not.

Kitty, legally I don't think he can take DCs out of the country without your consent. Nonetheless, I think you are right to say no. If you have to lay down the kind of conditions you describe,then you can't trust that they will be safe . It is not controlling, you are being sensible given past experience. I remember putting my dad to bed when he was completely drunk, God knows what would have happened in an emergency. No, keep your DC safe.

hello kitty its very sad that you have to join us here with the EA you and your children experiencing, but you are very welcome. Come along in and share. It does seem like you have yourself a plan! and know his tricks, without tryin gto be too flippant about it.

I just wanted to say tho, that if he's alchoholic he will not be able to stick to any promises that he might make regarding no drinking rules around driving. Mine made empty promises around drinking when in charge of DD, but well, the rest is history as they say.

He's also proven neglectful, so he doesn't seem fit to be in charge of DC atall? Same here, very worrying life threatening incidents that put him in a rage if I questionned atall, and in turns out they related to drinking too in the end!

I would never trust him again if ittook 6 hrs to let you know of that situation!!! What about the Dc??? they would just want you to be there surely, for their sake? Mine have never wanted to be around him when ill, because he's rubbish at looking after them taking any notice or giving a shit

Keep posting, and keep the passports hidden!

I haven't actually said no, I just reminded him that he shouldn't ask the children until the t and c s have been agreed...then he became unpleasant. He drinks much much less these days, and they are older. (He drank 10 units or more every day for 20+ years - now it's a bottle of wine 3-4 times per week.) The children are old enough to ring me if there was an issue, and old enough to know and tell me if he had done anything untoward. I don't know - he's not taking them anyway without a written agreement, and I'm not seeing any sign of that. If he did anything out of line, anything, he would never take them again. They might not even agree to go with him anyway, but guess whose fault that would be? He takes nothing on the chin, just responds to everything with accusations and name calling. It's wearing. Thanks for posting. Sorry for crashing the thread. It's so hard to go against him.

Thanks Fi x Obviously we have quite a bit in common. Hopeless at looking after them when they are ill - yes, yes, yes. It's hard to stick with the facts when they're so disputed and never acknowledged. For whatever reasons - perhaps to just prove to people that I was lying about his alcoholism, he has cleaned up his act a lot. He is more involved in family life and less moody, but I'm not sure how to square that with him saying the past stuff never happened/I made it up/twisted it all/am mad/paranoid/evil etc. I am a hate figure in his life, the only problem.

The children will want me to go - that's why it's so hard to stick to my guns. I might even cave in the moment they ask me. FFS. They are old enough to decide what they want to do. Sick of feeling torn. Appreciate the support x

yes, it is.. i totally 'get' that. please don't apologise its cool. It sadly what we know best here, or are getting to know (in my case). They are old enough to ring, but they are not old enough to be around an out of control drunk male with a temper. Thats very scarey. Its the expectation that despite appalling behaviour it'll stil lbe ok?! and yes, responds with name calling, and further abuse... tick tick tick

i am the only prob in ex fw life too. I am mistrustful of how much an alcholic can 'clean up their problem' especially without respected others around. Trouble is, ime, they tend to surround themselves with those that support this behaviour.

tis totally wrong of course to present it to the DC first!!! then mums the bad cop again yy to that here. just had that at the weekend, with very limited strict contact arrangements suggested by police, he goes right ahead and offers all sorts of things outside of the arrangement, who has to say no?

they might be old enough to decide what they want, but will they be safe, they cannot decide that, only your judgement dictates their best interests but I get what you are up against in making that call.

kitty you aren't crashing the thread - it's what it's here for :)

You are so bang on the money there fi - Mummy plays bad cop yet again. Oh shit, that's a nightmare you had at the weekend.

Thanks silverpussycat . I read this thread all the time, but I don't like to post when he's around - he always asks what I'm typing. I don't mean to defend him - he's still a shit to me, but he's cleaned up his act quite a lot. I think he knows that things are hanging by a thread, and also I think he knows they can do a hair strand test for alcohol abuse, which would have killed his position regarding contact if he had carried on as previously. Ironically, I think he resents me more because he is often sober and things still aren't ok. I understand that too - all the years I wished for him to stop getting pissed, and now he's sober and he's just as hostile and lacking in reality, where I'm concerned.

The women on this thread are amazing. I'm not exaggerating when I say Mumsnet has changed my life. I've learned/am learning so much, and it's different when the understanding that is on this thread is there day after day...like a positive drip drip drip. I've just started therapy, so that feels very positive. x