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Relationships

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 17

999 replies

foolonthehill · 17/02/2013 13:51

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin


Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!




Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
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MatchsticksForMyEyes · 17/02/2013 21:01

Out of interest, how many of you have big age gaps in your relationships? FW is 21 years older than me. He has never dated anyone his age. I think it's because they would have the same amount of life experience as him and would've kicked him into touch quicker than I did, being young and very inexperienced/naive.

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ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 21:48

fool, love the Dr Who connection, and it really makes sense. (Yes, t'was The Silence ).

Matchsticks - me & FW are the same age, just a couple of months apart. I don't think age differences has anything to do with it.

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MatchsticksForMyEyes · 17/02/2013 22:14

Didn't mean anything negative pony. I just think I was totally clueless and wondered if it was due to age or inexperience.

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NoraLuca · 17/02/2013 22:14

Evening all! I've been slightly disconnected from the internet (lost the other thread... hope everyone is OK. Last time I read Maggie was just about leaving, hope she's OK)

Matchsticks H is 7 years older than me. I was 21 when we got together, and I like to think that if I'd been older with more experience I wouldn't have let it get as bad as it did, or dealt with the situation better, but I'm not sure if the age gap per se really affected our relationship.

I have moved into my new house, but keep going back to our old flat because the DDs won't stay over on their own with H. H wants them to stay with him half the time, which I agree with in theory. They are both fine with spending the day with him, but DD2 especially becomes hysterical if I try to leave her for an overnight stay. The thing is, H didn't do very much with DD2 when we lived together - hardly ever sat with her at mealtimes, or helped her with her bath, or helped her get ready for bed, or played with her - so I understand why she is reluctant to stay with him now. I have been leaving them with him on his days, and coming back to the flat just before their bedtime so I can say goodnight to them. Then I stay over too. This probably isn't the best way to be dealing with the situation but I can't bring myself to leave poor crying DD2 with H when I can't be sure he'll comfort her.

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TisILeclerc · 17/02/2013 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 22:19


I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days, to do with why I chose to (finally) take my wedding ring off the day after Valentine's, and why I was so able to believe in the relationship for so long, when it was so obvious to everyone outside it that it was a bad 'un.

I think I was half expecting him to send me something for Valentine's. I think I half wanted him to. I think I wanted to believe that he was sorry, that he could be sorry. I was grieving having lost my love for him, and wanted to know that my love hadn't been wasted, that there was a good person in there somewhere.

Part of me is aware that if he had sent something, I would be much more able to forgive him, and perhaps even be less rigid legally with the finances of the divorce etc. Part of me is appalled at how easy it would be for him to manipulate me, if he so chose. Part of me realises that this is how he manipulated me so easily. I read about DV and read about the massive apologies afterwards to reel the partner back in. 'He never does that' I thought. But he did, just in a much more underhand way. Every weekend would be horrible. Then through the week it would gradually get better until, on a Thursday (our 'date' night) he'd make an effort and cook a lovely meal. I've recently realised that this was not because he loved me, it was because he loved cooking. He would regularly cook inflict big elaborate meals on us all at the weekend, that sometimes weren't ready till 8/9pm (not great for my then 5-year-old DS). He'd say that he was determined to cook fresh for his daughters because they ate ready meals and take-aways through the week. But the act of cooking took hours and took him away from spending time with them. As ever, it was never about them, it was about him and what he wanted to do. (And part of it, I think, was about him wanting to be seen to be providing for them, he wanted them to be grateful and me to be impressed.)

Anyway, rambling slightly...

I also didn't think he gaslighted me, but over the weekend I remembered an incident where we'd argued a bit on a Friday morning (before we were married, when we both still lived separately, but I was pregnant). I was stressing about packing for selling my house, we argued, he said for me to just stay at mine on the Friday night and pack instead of going through to his as I had been doing every weekend. I was upset he said that, but a bit relieved (and also genuinely needed to pack, and gawd knows he didn't lift a finger to help me). However, what actually happened (I now think), is that he pretended to his daughters that he didn't know I wasn't coming through, and started texting and phoning me at 6pm to ask where I was. He then phoned much later and verbally abused me enormously while drunk, saying I was upsetting the girls, demanded that I come over there and then (it was 11pm, DS was in bed, I said no, he threatened to end things... I didn't go but went first thing the next morning, I ended up apologising).

My brain can't compute that someone would lie to their own daughters and get them upset just to manipulate and control someone else. I can't process it so I ignore it and focus on the stuff I can process, like a bunch of flowers, him telling me he loved me, the weekly promise of 'come on, let's have a good weekend' etc. It's easier to believe that, and believe that I'm the one at fault than to believe someone could actually be so calculatingly mean as to lie to their daughters and upset them.

So. If he'd sent me some Valentine's flowers, I'd have been able to focus on them and not process the fact that he's demanding so much money off me for the house, despite the abuse. In actual fact, he's probably missed a trick there. Not so bloody clever after all, eh? EH? Ahem.

But he didn't send anything. Thank goodness, in a way, but I think it still makes me sad inside, to realise that this is the kind of person he truly is. It's there, in bold fact, I can't focus on something else instead. I was so blind. I blinded myself and was willingly blinded. So that's probably why the ring came off the next day. I still keep rubbing my finger where it was though. Sad I think for my 40th this year, I want to myself get a lovely ring (for another finger) that I can rub at and look at and enjoy. I remember JK Rowling doing that with one of her first big payments, a kind of 'Eff U' ring. I want an 'Eff U' ring!
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MatchsticksForMyEyes · 17/02/2013 22:24

pony I took my rings off very quickly. Then fw guilted me into putting them back on. Except they wouldn't properly go back, my finger went white and they had to be cut off at the fire station as A&E didn't have the right kit. So that kind of drew a line under it all for me. It did take a while to get used to it.

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CharlotteCollinsislost · 17/02/2013 22:31

Nora, that's great that you're in your new house. Do you have a fridge?!?

Could you not take dd2 back to your house with you; say you're happy to work towards overnight stays, but she's clearly not ready yet?

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ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 22:36

Matchsticks, no negative taken - I just don't think age gap or inexperience is the whole story. A FW is a FW, whether he's older, younger, or the same age. I was 37 when I met FW, already had a son from a previous long-term relationship. I was a woman of the world, and thought I was pretty independent and strong. But I got suckered in, when I should have been there to protect my DS but I wasn't. In my counselling, I'm going back and looking at why. My boundaries are non-existent. My people-pleasing (and disapproval-avoiding) are off the scale. And there is evidence to suggest that my childhood had a part in it too. I think 'the FW' can detect vulnerability wherever it lies, whether it's in someone younger than them or someone their own age who has been through the mill.

Nora - glad you have moved in, congratulations! Regards your arrangement: if your H didn't do much for the DCs when you were together, there is no need to agree to a 50-50 agreement just because he says it. You can use your very valid arguments about DD2 not settling to suggest a different contact arrangement, eg little and often (several times a week for a couple of hours), or one day at the weekend. You are within your rights to say no to overnights for now. I know it's really hard to assert it. Have you spoken to a lawyer yet? The current situation is obviously not ideal, for anyone.

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minkembra · 17/02/2013 22:38

Fool. thank you.Thanks

Ex 7 years older and already had 2 kids. think that did make a difference to how much he respected me but only accentuated an issue that was already there.

scarred welcome. re ex hopping from one gf to next, i think that is why my ex is so utterly pissed off to have been exed. he says for first time on his life he has no one to love him. well he has been dumped or left before so can only assume this is first time he did not have his next move lined up in advance. feel sorry for next mug gf as he will no doubt be keeping a spare in reserve from now on.

And boo hoo again the boy can cry me a river. at least he can go out whenever he wants. if i find a new partner it is going to have to be based on 3 hours out a fortnight, my pottery class, average age 75 - they are all lovely...but marriedWink...or work.

Even if i did meet someone i'd be smuggling them in and out while the girls were asleep.
That and the fact i have a fair bit in common with Miranda in the romance stakes...awkward clumsy geeky bit blokey...

Nonetheless i have the new haircut going to get the lashes done (hoping not to look like a transvestite (nothing against them just jealous that half the time they look more convincing in a dress than meGrin)and then see who i can trap in my wicked web mwahahah.


Dr who connection brilliant.

Fi lonely Saturdays suck. the fact that Saturday with FW can be worse does not make being on your own better. it can be like the choice between having cold sores or conjunctivitis... no one wants either (although i do know some people genuinely like being alone)

Its like what we chose from the menu of life was a warm loving relationship and what you got served was a month old plate of greasy bloaters with a nice dressing (well you cannot serve greasy bloaters without a nice dressing or ahem no one would order them...)...worse a plate of bloaters that cheats on you

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ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 22:42

Matchsticks!!!!! Grin Is it wrong to say I laughed at your tale of wedding ring woe? That you had to get them blimmin well cut off (thereby taking away any possibility of being able to wear them). I should have thought of that (I did struggle to get it off on Friday, wondered if I'd be able, finger was turning a funny colour Hmm...)

FW actually demanded that I take my ring off and give it back to him at one point, so maybe that's why I kept it on for so long or cos I is a stubborn-ass mule.

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MatchsticksForMyEyes · 17/02/2013 22:43

No, it was blackly funny! I rang my best friend on the way and she laughed loads. Best bit was, the firemen laid out 3 garden saws and told me to choose my weapon to wind me up. Was an odd, but amusing night in a way.

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ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 22:45

mink Grin Grin V funny! Am snorting at greasy bloaters... No idea what they are but they sound funny!

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TisILeclerc · 17/02/2013 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 17/02/2013 22:48

Have just been at my parents' house for a very relaxing weekend. FW has dd1, dd2 and ds on holiday; I am finding just having dd3 unbelievably relaxing, such a treat!

Am pleased with myself, because I put my headlights on full beam when possible, driving home, whereas last time in November I didn't because FW thinks they're unnecessary ("you can see far enough down the road as it is," he always says as he roars down narrow country lanes far too fast...). FFS, he wasn't in the car either time, so please FW get out of my head, too!!

FW came home for about 24 hours on Valentine's Day: long enough that I feel the need for a self-indulgent rant!

He says that being married to me is the most important thing in the world to him, so he'll do whatever it takes, even if that's a complete personality change. WTF?? Does he even know what he's saying? What does that MEAN?

I told him that his behaviour is damaging me, and he looked mortally wounded and muttered about it being "a bit strong." So I said that I'd told him that before about a month ago and he'd reacted the same way then! He didn't quite know how to reply to that - no recollection whatsoever!

I also used the N-word, you know - narcissism, and explained (v v briefly) that Ns have low self-esteem but come across as arrogant, which he could identify with.

Still, two minutes later, he'd rationalised all our problems into: "I think you've stopped loving me and you need to start loving me again and you don't know if you can be bothered." Hmm Great work, FW - don't let logical reasoning get in the way of a good theory, eh?

So, I'm not expecting it to be easy to tell him it's over... I'm half-worried that he'll avoid talking about it till his 40th birthday, then force a confrontation and make me look like a complete cow for ruining his big day. Whatever... It's going to be a bad year for him, however it happens, esp if he loses his job as well, but I can't stay around indefinitely putting him first while he also puts himself first, can I?

Thanks fool for new thread and helpful linky in old thread. And hi to SBA and DFOD and friendly waves to everyone else I've not mentioned.

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minkembra · 17/02/2013 22:49

pony sad for you that he is too big a twat to apologise but glad he did not too. think we want so much not to be right about them.

I came back from my parents to a lovely vase of roses...bought them myself before i left and they still look fab. decided not to wait for someone else to get them. these are my eff u flowersGrin


its not the same pony but ThanksThanks

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ponygirlcurtis · 17/02/2013 23:01

Thanks mink! I actually won a bunch of roses at DS2's toddler group on Thursday, and put them straight on the front windowsill because then FW will see them every day on his way back from work. Naughty!

Charlotte lovely to hear you sounding so positive! Grin Hurrah for a relaxing weekend. You are almost certainly right about his intentions to ignore the problems (since that's what he's doing for now anyway). Any opportunity to make it all about him will be an opportunity wasted.

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BreatheandFlyAway · 17/02/2013 23:17

Mink I have "new life daffodils", I like the FU flowers theory too Grin

Charlotte my fw is reading from the same script as yours. My leaving him has been a wake up call, etc etc. I explained that he's left waking up too late by a couple of years. That when I am driven to an extreme act like leaving I do actually mean it.

Thank God he didn't turn up in my bedroom again last night. I was out with friends and came back and got really tensed up, kept waking up, tellingly I woke up at 4.30 am and couldn't get back to sleep, wondering if he would appear at 5am.

I put a stool in front of the door so at least I'd have some warning and I actually put my switched-off laptop (which of course contains the magical strength of this thread!) on the bed between me and the door, along with my teddy from childhood - I mean how silly am I Grin - I had had a few glasses whilst out!

Anyway he didn't appear. I had a productive day, went for an hour's walk, did gardening for an hour, ignored the house being messy (which I find quite hard to do) and made stuff.

Thanks for new thread, Fool Thanks

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BreatheandFlyAway · 17/02/2013 23:18

pony glad you had some lovely Thanks too!

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minkembra · 17/02/2013 23:23

Dam. wish i had not looked at that not worth it thread. only meant to read it but got a bit hacked off Angry

Nothing like blaming abuse on the abused at all was it? Now what kind of personality would do that i wonder.

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BreatheandFlyAway · 17/02/2013 23:25

Mink I think I'll be avoiding that thread from what I've heard. We don't need more to fight against, God knows!

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FairyFi · 17/02/2013 23:33

not sure about following the theory of age gap, experience or set up for it (parents). It keeps reminding me of the idea of short skirts, low tops, flirty behaviour, being a little bit drunk, and over friendly being the 'cause' of rape!

Yeah they are poles apart, umm, well no, maybe not. This was occurring to me as I was reading the thread just before about 'why women do it' (!) why they don't just turn away, etc. etc. blah blah.

Children have vulnerabilities, which abusers take advantage of, good loving kind people don't. 'setting someone up' for abuse, doesn't mean theyll be unlucky enough to find one (although I score a full house on that one!). Girls from lovely homes with kind loving and respectful parents can still fall foul of the 'conman' abuser.

Are all the years and years of successful 'time share' sales, all the fault of the people that invested, or the fault of the misleading sales tactics.

I know I am very wary because it'll mean I brought it on myself, if I align myself to that theory, but I honestly don't think it mattered, they were abusive end of. We don't know whether 'that' poster is in an abusive relationship and just doesn't even realise that right now.

There are cultures that are more maybe, whats the word, appeasing? People pleasing, for sure GB where our history and our current policies set us far back from the likes of scandanavia. The women of aus have been found to be (thro psych testing) to be less swayed by others opinions and pressures.

No definitives but lots of influences and possibilities, just don't want to say we brought it on ourselves!

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Noonelistens · 17/02/2013 23:38

matchsticks - H is 11 years older than me. And I was young when we got together. I think this has played a huge part. He'd already got a house so he knew about mortgages so I went along with what he said. He'd already learned to decorate so I let him do it because it made no sense for me to take twice as long (and get it wrong) when he could do it. He already had a load of pictures/furniture etc and even now I feel like I'm sitting on his sofa.

Nora great to hear you are in your own house. Could the DDs not just spend the daytime at their Dads? I too would hate to leave my DD with H overnight as I know he wouldn't get up to her to comfort her in the night if she awoke.

pony you definitely should get an eff u ring. Maybe we all need an eff u ring!!

I have had a weird development this evening. I think H is having an affair. He's been a bit more welded to his phone than usual but thought it was down to having a shiny new iPhone. Anyway he went to the loo and I noticed his phone had fallen out of his pocket and onto the sofa. So I know it's wrong but I couldn't resist looking. There are loads of messages to and from a lady that I know he is friends with from his last job. I mean daily messages. Lots of night night messages. A red love heart from her on 15th Feb. A message from her stating 'just having a bath but something's missing....' I only had a few minutes to read - didn't get as far forwards as valentines day or before. She's not local but that bath comment cannot be innocent can it?

But the strange this is, I know I should be feeling devastated but I don't. If anything I feel lighter. I think this may be my way out. I know if I confront him about the EA he will make light of it and possibly talk his way out of it. An affair he can't can he? And am I right in thinking that infidelity would mean that he couldn't fight a divorce?

So I need evidence. I need to get the phone and photograph some of the messages - and read back a lot further because they clearly converse a lot. Just not sure how I can get the phone because like I say he has been possessive of it (and now I know why). He sleeps in the spare room and is a really light sleeper - but perhaps it would be worth risking sneaking in whilst he's asleep?

Sorry bit of a long post - really needed to share.

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FairyFi · 17/02/2013 23:43

and Mink that was hilarious, thanks for the laugh! Thanks

ooo lots of flowers going around at the mo!

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minkembra · 18/02/2013 00:10

The age thing- don't think that made me more likely to think he was right but i do think it contributed to his belief that he was superior. It is that whole trying to hide insecurity by making yourself out to be superior or putting others down.

That was my stated reason for leaving- he does not think i am the equal of him because i am younger and female. (Incidentally both him and his dad used to refer to women as 'some female'. As in i went to the council offices and had to speak to 'some female' -used to hack me off).

Plus he used different generation thing as an excuse for his 'old fashioned' ideas.

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