Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

pony I hope your list starts to get manageable. Loving the sweet popcorn idea I totally agree about the carpet cleaning not being one of the deadly sins!! Honestly, the fw. He wasn't even annoyed about the forgetting, he was annoyed on principle because a) anything I do is stupid and must be savaged b) anything I spend, I must be accused of being a spendthrift madwoman and c) because he doesn't like paying anyone for anything (not that he bloody paid, I did) grrrrrrrrrrrr!

Climbing out of black hole=FAIL. It seems FW has had his foot on my head so to speak so no matter how hard I try I'm still stuck in this black hole. He's been in a foul mood this avo/eve, blaming me for boiler still not working and got in a right strop as when he was at work I went out to a supermarket with kids (I have no money so just looking) but because I should have run it by him first wtf! I've got some time to myself wednesday avo so going to try and sort storage place then and put payment on my credit card. And there is a god-FW has been given a group of dates he has to go away on work courses so this will give me the chance to get stuff out of the house and then finally me and DC out too hopefully. Finding situation really hard at the moment I have to admit

In other news...D.old flame (who I had thought I had scared off by practically stalking him being over friendly) sent me a lovely very long email today apologising for not being in touch and said he wanted to check if I was ok as had a feeling I wasn't. Blimey he must be russell grant in a rather gorgeous disguise! He wanted to talk on the phone so he could hear my voice as would be able to tell straight away if I was ok or not but said I couldn't as FW around and temper was bad today. Think that said it all really and he knew I wasn't ok then. I just left it at that saying I had lots going on at the moment, he said to let him know if I need him, even though he lives hundreds of miles away. Would love him to punch FWs lights out and carry me and DC off to saftey on a horse into the sunset like in the films but...no....need to get out of this mess and rebuild mine and DCs life again alone for now. He does make me smile a lot though and is good to know he is there now and doesn't think I'm a crazy stalker lady!

Oh god-so sorry about the epic me me me post. I'm ashamed to say I've still not caught up with everyone properly yet...sorry ladies am always thinking of you all though. Back soon xx

Hey guys, sorry I've been AWOL lately, I'm lurking but not much time to post right now. Thanks for thinking of me Try. Fool, sorry to hear your FW is still being a FW, it's depressing to hear they never change. Your poor little ones, he must confuse them. Maggie, keep swimming, don't let the bastard grind you down. as lovely as D.old flame sounds, Leclerc is right. You can do this yourself, even if it's nice to have a bit of backup.

My exam is a week today - the rest of this week I'm on study leave so hoping to knuckle down, but not feeling very confident about it all. Too much to learn, too little time. I was hoping to get DD into nursery on Monday so I can get some final cramming in, but they told me this morning they can't take her. Don't know what to do now - havn't got anybody who can have her for a few hours, and NSDH, if he'll even agree to take the day off, will just hang around the house with her all day, so she'll get confused as to why she can't see mummy, and I'll get stressed. Why is there no [exhausted] smilie?

NSDH has a job interview tomorrow - cross your fingers for me and hope he doesn't get it. It's closer to home so his commute would be less, saving us money. However, he's 'decided' (and sprung this on me this in front of his friends so I couldn't argue) that if he gets the job he'll be taking the car every day, leaving at the same time he does now (and thus avoiding the rush to get DD ready and to nursery) and coming home early (again, avoiding having to pick her up). I walk to work with DD in the pushchair most days which takes me 30 minutes, but as my work means I'm based at different sites, about once a fortnight, sometimes more, I have to go elsewhere, so I usually drive DD to nursery, come home, and then walk to the site I'm needed at. Of course, if he has the car I can't do that, but does he see that as an issue? Oh no. Why would my needs be important? I should just be rooting for him getting this job, after all, it will make his life easier, and my sole purpose in life is to get on my hands and knees so he can stand on my back. Then I can carry us both.

Sorry, I'm ranting, I'm just very tired.

were and match, my youngest is ten and although the Family Courts dealt with it years ago, he still harasses me constantly. I have always thought ah well, when youngest hits sixteen I'll be in the clear... But recently in an email, FW ex actually said "Don't think I will stop when they are sixteen".

Apparently the latest F4J trick is for them to insist on seeing the kids' medical records. Presumably looking for evidence of bruises, or things they can then blame on the parent who is primary carer... My husband was just telling me about this, and sure enough ex started demanding two weeks ago to see the boys" medical records.

However relentlessly the controlling ex pursues you, it is still the best thing you can do to get away. I hadnt heard of courses for abusers... What a load of naive tosh! It is ibvious to me these men are recidivists like sex offenders... There is no cure for being a total arse.

Leclerc totally understand your anger, let it out, we are here to listen x

Nini good luck with revising/exam, we are all thinking of you, hope you can get something sorted with DD

Another day....another foul mood here I tried to convience him to have a lie in but he went mad wanting to know why am I trying to be so nice when I'm really an evil nasty bitch. Alrighty then. Roll on this avo when he goes to work. Back later x

Thats ok Leclerc . The library is a good idea, it's just up the road, but they don't have any traditional 'working' areas anymore. It's all computers, a few shelves with the odd chair, but no actual desks. Bizarre. I will text NSDH and see if he can at least be around, there isn't really an alternative.

Regarding studying, I can't really take a break from it all as have 2 more exams (more if I fail this one again) and a dissertation. It'll take me 18 months to finish this course even if I pass this exam this time. So ages. At least the next exam won't be until July so I can take a few weeks off.

And about anger, I don't know how to let it go, struggling with that one myself. I keep finding myself snapping at him (which plays into his whole 'victim' impression of himself), and it doesnt help. The only way I can see all this hell ending is if one of us is dead. They don't change. They don't know how. They especially don't see the hurt they cause and I've yet to find a way to let go of how angry I feel. Sorry that doesn't help

LeClerc it is not a whinge fest. I often get flashbacks, think we all probably do, as that is the nature of stress and trauma. Rationally, we want to forget but then something triggers another memory, and you are there again... I have felt such release since I found this thread, and can see other women saying things I had thought were "only me". All these years on, but I still get flashbacks and even dream I am back in that time in my life, all the time. I think maybe because part of me repressed so much, just to survive. Reading your posts has been so helpful to me and the flashbacks resonate so much, there are no words for how useful it is for women still there and those of us now safely out, to see others' experience.

Oh and how weird about the car seats! My ex bought a big expensive leather covered one for his car only... I stole it when we split.

He also bought a posh three wheeler buggy... I tended to use a Wilkinet baby carrier that had survived from my older kids, or a cheap fold down basic jobby. When I left him, I made sure I got that too but then left it at the top of my garden with a sign saying "Free! take this push chair if you want it!" (Days befire Freecycle) as anything my ex had even touched was "bad karma"... This woman couldnt believe her luck getting a three hundred quid pushchair for free!

Oddly the pushc chair and car seat for our elder son were the only things he ever bought. Because he was on Incapacity Benefit, CSA declared he has to oay a princely sum of £0 for the kids, so effectively they have cost him nothing iver a decade. He holidays abriad and has hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank, thanks to inheriting his mum's house. The kids either dont go on holiday at all, or we camp a couple of nights. I see from his FB my ex has just got back from yet another holiday in France! No wonder I get flashbacks!

Leclerc - I think teapot is right, the flashbacks and the anger are the nature of having had such stress and trauma. I have it too, to a lesser extent, I still have nights when I lie and can't sleep, playing over scenarios and wishing I'd done things differently. That side of it is awful and pointless (but I can't seem to stop), but the anger you can hold onto - it'll propel you forward to living a good life without him - the best revenge.

Teapot - that's rotten that he's never paid a penny, is there really no way round that given his obvious pile of cash in the bank?? Seems very unfair.

Nini and Maggie - thinking of you both, and your bad situations.

FW will probably receive the solicitor letter today. Feel nervous already, that'll get worse throughout the day. Already had some FWittery today from him - he's asked if he can drop off DS2 back to me earlier than normal on Saturday because he has to take the girls home for a party. I said that wouldn't be possible, I was out all afternoon (it's DS1's birthday celebrations, for whatever we decide to do), he could take DS2 with him to drop them home. No, he said, not good to be driving about with him (Eh???), and if i wasn't willing to get him early that was fine he'd have to get DSDs to change their plans. I said I was sorry, I couldn't guarantee I'd be home for 4.30pm, he could take the girls home earlier but it was up to him if he changed their party plans. He then accused me of 'being funny' about not giving him a specific time that I'd be home. Argh!!!! At least I can see it for the manipulative guilt trip that it is now. But I think it sets the tone for how things will be. Any hope I have of this being sensible and normal are gone.

Think I need a flash back or 2 to keep me in reality...otherwise I'd be back to minimising and wondering if he's right about my sanity .

I think abusers courses are for us really....when we get to court they can't deny they were abusive. As they tend to be long it gives them a deadline to work to and maybe a little space for us whilst they concentrate on trying to look good in the counsellors eyes. And if it weren't for the courses where would the research on FWs be done if they don't change despite the course, they wouldn't change with us...more validation.

Exactly: why does it matter what they think?

After all a year ago you were in the dark about abusive men, 2 years ago so was I.

Actually without you there to prop him up the likelihood is that he WILL prove your point for you...but hopefully by the time people see him for what/who he is, you will be beyond caring!

PS I approve and here's a great big pat on the back >>

I know Leclerc, I am obviously an awful mother for suggesting that poor, neglected DS2 drive in a car for an hour with his sisters, just so I don't have to make my other son curtail his birthday arrangements. (Although maybe his concern really is that new his car seat is for show only and is actually absolute shit and only good enough for doing the short 2-min journey from my flat to the house. Maybe i should suggest that this is the problem?)

fool, I think you might be right about the abuser courses. They are a useful process - but not for the reasons that the abusers themselves think. And I agree. Sometimes I can wonder if it was me. And then I remember, and remember, and remember. And no, it wasn't me. It wasn't any of us.

Me too

pony, no. I had no idea how much money he had in the bank (he wouldn't even buy my food when we supposedly lived together), but when I left him and the police were doing him for harassment, they had seen his bank balance and it was a police officer who tipped me off. When I told her the CSA had let him off paying me a penny, she was so incensed, she got on the phone to them there and then! She got no joy, either.

After I left him, his mother died, leaving him a third of a large house in London at the height of the housing boom. So I can only guess how much money he has now. CSA said they didn't give a toss, because he was claiming Incapacity benefit which meant he didn't have to pay for the kids. Now, I understand his Incapacity Benefit has been stopped but he is still liable to pay nothing.

I have often wondered if there was a court I could take him to, to sue him for literally not paying for his kids - despite the CSA saying he is a lovely person who doesn't have to pay a penny for two kids. My husband is on minimum wage and he supports them totally. I do a small amount of freelance work, which is growing but it is nothing near a steady income.

That just beggars belief, Teapot. Am on your behalf!

That's so awful Teapot! But not the first time I've heard that story, I know several women in a similar situation. The attitude of 'why should I give them anything' is astounding in men like this.

Well, NSDH says he can't take Monday off as he meetings. No surprise there. So I'll be at home with DD the day before my exam then. Boo, won't be a fun day for either of us.