Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

try meant to thanks for looking out for me - taken all decs down today does this mean the official end of the f.emo's. x

PrincessFionne - I don't feel brave. I feel defeated, exhausted, and just depressed.

I have had a truly horrible day, which was punctuated by ongoing outbursts at myself and the children from H, a lot of it over small insignificant things. I argue each and every time that it's not the way to speak to your family, but it falls on deaf ears.

School starts tomorrow. I'm getting overwhelmed by all that I have to do just to keep up with regular things and that doesn't even include any added organisation for long term stuff. That list is growing daily as well. I feel like I'm drowning. Or going to implode.

I'm sure, twelve, but despite all of that you are talking of change. Keep coming and letting it out so you don't implode with it all. Get some help; are yours young enough to be entertained at a family centre near you, or speak to a health visitor, doctor anything, to get some more RL support? and you are still standing against the way he speaks to you and your DC. I hope you have a good sleep and rest tonight and more of a break tomorrow, with some time to yourself. take care Fi

Leclerc, I don't have much more to add, other than I love Fi's idea about getting her some work experience. If not a vet practice, then maybe an animal shelter or something like that? She needs to find the motivation within herself, you can't do it for her like you say.

And glad to see your FW is going to be doing you that 'favour' of taking the boys on Wednesday. Because, as usual, it's all about the image - it's not about him spending time with them at all, it's about him being seen to 'help you' and being seen by others (his parents) as a good dad.

twelve - I think I know how you feel, that you'll implode. I felt like that too. I felt like I was paddling furiously to keep my head only just above the water - it wouldn't have taken much for me to go completely under. Look after yourself. Do you think your GP could help out? And keep planning. You need to. things can get better for you once you are out, but while you are still there, you are stuck in this awful situation that wont fix itself. Thinking of you.

I posted elsewhere here today about my controlling ex. Ten years since I left him but still he bombards me with threatening emails, constantly setting deadlines by which I should do x, y and z.

We have had a nightmare with him. Even long after you leave a man like this, he can make life hell. Police told me to take him through the Family Courts so he couldn't just turn up whenever he felt like it, or take my kids abroad as he threatened. In the end a case that should have taken 18 weeks, took 18 months.he went from saying I was controlling because I said it was unfair of him to go on holiday alone, travelling round for six months leaving me alone with two babies.... To insisting he had brought them up singlehanded. Twice he vanished abroad. Once to Cannes, once to LA. he left me on benefits, with no help, nothing.

When he knew I took it to court, he countersued me for residency and tried to take these two kids he barely knew and had never paid a penny for or cared about, from me and everyone and everything they knew. He ended up losing, getting court orders against him to stop him coming near the kids.

I have had over three hundred insane, bullying and threatening emails from him since Spring. The police are putting together a case as we speak.

He was done for harassing me and got off on a technicality. They are saying it goes beyond harassment this time.

Things women are saying here is ringing bells with me. I remember when I was with him, one Valentine's Day we went out but then he decided he wasn't speaking to me. He sat and read a paper in the cinema cafe, then went down to the loos, before we left and ... I am a strong woman but by that time I took the usual strategy of keeping quiet, to keep the peace, I hate myself for it now.... As he went in the loos, a young lad came out and asked me if I was with that man. I said yes. He said "Do you want me to punch his lights out?" Apparently, he burst into the men's loo literally screaming obscene abuse about me. This young man was so disgusted if I had said do it, he would have walked back in and lamped him. To my immense regret, I said don't.

All the time I was with him, he never laid a finger on me but the control was such... Put it this way... He once refused to speak to me for three days because I pegged the washing out "wrong". Slowly i stopped seeing my friends because it caused so much trouble.... Later he cut me off systematically from all my relatives.

And ten years on, the nightmare continues. He got involved with the Alpha course and F4J and since then has got worse as he must be surrounded by people who encourage him in this fantasy that I have stopped him seeing his kids for no good reason.

I have nothing to do with him and live hundreds of miles away, but he has still made my life hell all year. I dont want to sound negative but be aware some men who are emotionally abusive will never give up. I know damn well that even if he ends up behind bars when he gets out, I will be prime target, yet again.

Thanks for your kind words everyone - Leclerc, I think you had it there, it was almost as if I was hoping for a last-minute reprieve. Daft, innit? Anyway. I feel much more detached from him generally at the moment (for however long that lasts), so am trying to get on with stuff in my head, got so much going on. But we all have. I just need to get my head down and try to get on without getting hobbled by pesky things like emotions.

If I needed any more convincing, had another talk with DS1 earlier - we started talking about renting houses, and how we'd only move from this flat if we found somewhere with a garden for DS1 to play in, I loved the flat but wanted DS1 to have a garden. 'What about you Mummy?' he asked. 'What about what you want? What would make you happy?'

We got onto talking about us not going back to the house. There were a few more 'I remember when my stepdad said this to me and I got upset...' stories, to which I said that I was glad he was telling me about them, and things like this were why we weren't going back. I said that he'd had some lovely times with his stepdad but also some upsetting times. He told me again about how he would get upset hearing FW shout at me when he was in bed. And about how he still remembered the time that FW told me to 'shut up'.
'Mummy, I'll never forget that as long as I live. I know that's not right. I came and said to you straight away, that's not right, didn't I? You shouldn't say things like that to your wife.'
What a love he is. We talked more, and I said that all marriages can have arguments sometimes but... and he finished for me - there have to be more nice times than bad. I said we both deserved better than lots of bad times. He said 'Yes, we deserve better than that.'
Was so proud of him saying that, I thought I'd burst! But instead I'll just share it with all of my lovely ladies on here. Hope everyone is safe. Good night all, and thank goodness it's Monday tomorrow!

Teapot, that sounds just awful. I'm sure you've already considered this, but can you just change your email address and let the one he knows fill up with the vitriol from him, unanswered, which you can then just pass on to the police?

You've been away from him for 10 years - having him still affect you so much must be really hard (and so unfair). I hope you manage to get a case brought against him, I really do.

leclerc sorry you are feeling so worried about dd1. I was thinking back to my school days - I had some turbulent times and I was trying to remember what it was like being in my head then to relate to your dd. I think the fact that you've removed her from the ea situation and she now has a stable, rational home with you, has maybe allowed her to feel safe to express and go off the rails a bit. I am sure, with your kindness and understanding, plus the new home stability, that she will balance out naturally in the end. It'll be the a-level grades that'll count, so in a sense maybe it's kind of better she is having her "off the rails" time now than two years down the line? My dsis was much more of a rebel than me and I think because she got all the difficulties out during teens, she has become such a sorted, strong minded person and achieved goals, etc (huh, lucky her!) xx

pony well done, lovey! You are amazing to have got to the stage you have. You are being very brave

Twelve - to hear you're feeling like you're going to implode. I know that feeling. I hope your anger and frustration will propel you out of there soon.

Fi glad you had nice walkies and feel refreshed. Walking in the fresh air is such a great way to clear your head and feel a bit better.

I took kids to funfair today for afternoon, to meet friend I hadn't seen for a while. I told fw about this last week and he of course had a moan but then obviously forgot. When I reminded him this morning, he flew off the handle.

I think he's getting weirder and more controlling. He won't let me go anywhere with kids overnight (which is fucked up in itself - ie not even to my mum's) but has never had a big problem with me taking them out for afternoon ffs! But today he screamed at me and said it was appalling I was "taking the kids away" without consulting him (!!) and that in return he was going to book two weeks holiday next xmas abroad with them without consulting me .

I took them to the fair anyway but felt horrible all afternoon, anxious, not knowing what I'd come back to (he has form for this). I tried phoning (under pretext of arranging what we'd eat) but he didn't answer, which is how things kicked off last time. I felt quite fearful. In the end, whilst out, I texted our lovely friends (about the last remaining friends he has) and invited them round. I knew he'd behave in front of them and them coming made me feel safe. Sure enough, he became "normal" during the evening and that saw off his weird mood. Plus it was heartbreakingly lovely to see them, as they are normal and lovely and kind (welling up!).

But this fecking fwittery made me long but feel scared for the day we leave. I was clattering about in kitchen getting ready for guests, muttering to myself along the lines of "not long now mate and you'll be sorry" - oops gone mad ahem - didn't realise he was sitting within earshot. Not sure if he heard!

Sorry for epic post, just needed to air the misery and confusion!

Pony your ds1 sounds like a total angel, please give him an extra hug from me (insane internet random woman ). How lovely he sounds. I'm glad he's managing to talk about stuff, he sounds very sensible and intelligent.

teapot first of all, I love your nn . How bloody awful that your ex is making your life hell, I'm so sorry how old roughly are your dcs if it's ok to ask? I'm wondering if the abuse may stop once they're older? But so awful it's on-going, he sounds like a madman

Hi ladies...am so sorry not caught up yet, had to share this-found out why FW been watching my every move last week or so, one of his regular drinking buddies wife and DC has just left him and moved straight into a new flat. I don't know her but well done her! She seems to have basically nicked my plan but did a quicker job of escaping! All this taken into account and the drinking buddy laying low FW still laughs about it thinking she has just gone off in a strop and will be back to him in no time He really is mental and thinks its all a joke. He laughs saying that ill be trying that trick next-gives me chills-i just try and laugh it off and say as if I would, where would I go with no money and two very little DC etc etc. So much more determined now to give myself a kick up the ass, crawl out of my hibernating black hole and get plan back on track. At least I won't be the first one in his circle of "friends" to have left home and it will be so much easier explaining stuff to DD now as she sort of looked up to drinking buddys DD (FW and him used to take my DD and his DD 'on days out so mums could rest' (bull as I still had DS and they used to just take them to the pub-selfish bastards)

I will be back properly soon supporting ladies, going to be doing a fair bit of digging tonight outta this hole...hopefully be back in the commune by tomorrow night! Get the rose on ice! Thinking of you all x

leclerc sorry to hear about your lovely neighbour's mum I really hope she is ok and recovers soon.

What a bugger re dishwasher - they are so essential with kids, must be a nightmare managing without.

Maggie - interesting re your OH's buddy's wife leaving him - that does explain your OH's vigilance! Wow, maybe you need to ask her to share some tips with us - is her OH abusive too?

Nini are you OK? You haven't been on for a while? xx

Good luck and continued courage to everybody.

Reading your post, Teapot, I was thinking about how many abusive men seem to be involved in a church (mine included although I think slightly differently from most). It would be so helpful if archbishops and priests etc were to be heard on the radio speaking out against EA, like the Prime Min (for all his many failings) did a couple of months ago. But instead, the church almost seem to take the side of the abuser, discouraging women from leaving the relationship and encouraging them to accept some of the blame purely in order to be conciliatory. That is my rant for now.

Very good point five. I think the ea personality likes to feel self righteous and have rules; maybe this is why they are drawn. My FW has become more and more religious in recent years, in a narrow minded way as opposed to an all embracing, kindly way!

My heating's packed up (must be everything's going on strike after the hols hey LeClerc ?) still I suppose it nearly got us through Christmas.

Wish I had a (D)H it was easier to talk to about life's trials and tribulations.

HeyHo !

"Life's a bit pants quite often" .... YY - heating is one thing too many to think about today !

Thanks all, for your kind words. As you will know better than anyone, it can feel very lonely. Ten years on, with a lovely husband who has been a good stepdad to the kids, and with all the court orders from Family Court in place to protect the kids, you'd think it was sorted - but it's not.

The police are hoping to go for charging him under the Malicious Communications Act, this time. I don't know the details yet but should do over the next week or so.

Kids are 10 and 12. I'm assuming he can continue to bring vexatious cases etc right til the youngest is 16, which makes me about half way through this.

I wanted to post something positive, but feel like - ten years have gone by and still this man tries (fails but tries) to control me, and still he causes havoc. He was diagnosed as having a personality disorder by the court psychiatrist - previously undiagnosed. I wonder how many of these men have some really deep, underlying psychopathy going on? People say to me all the time "What the hell were you doing getting involved with someone like that?" but at the time I met him, he appeared (almost) 'normal', and the paranoia built and built, over months and then years to the point it was obvious to me he was a raving lunatic but honestly, hadn't been like that at the start...

Small things like, I am an average height and was then a perfect size 12, but he told me e'd never take me on holiday as I'd look too fat in a bikini... Then because he created so much when I wore make-up (which I used to love) I stopped wearing make-up. "Just to keep the peace". You know how it goes. Those seem like trivial things when you love someone. But they are not.

The reason I'm saying that is so rather than think you can cope with it, or settle for it, those of yous still in these situations - get the hell out! I look back now and what I don't get is, my best mate volunteered at a women's refuge for years and told me all the horror stories, and yet when it was happening to me, I refused to accept that an intelligent, strong woman like me could ever be in that situation. Maybe it was my imagination, maybe there was something wrong with me - all those cliches we all know but never think apply to us.

Keep yourselves and your children safe. The police, CPS and courts moved mountains for me to help us - there are people out there to help you and help protect you even when it's all over. Which is my other point. It isn't always 'all over'. Don't assume his attempts to get at you will stop - so keep yourselves extra safe, even after you have left.

Sorry this was a long post, just something I feel strongly about. xxx

Leclerc, sometimes it's just everything all at once, isn't it? Hope your lovely neighbour's mum is ok. And glad you have a dishwasher coming - never mind why he's paid for it, just accept it with a smile!

It's so hard to see your child not fulfill their potential. I'm not even close to that point yet, but I know it's hard - my parents went through it with my sister, to the point that I was guilt-tripped till I agreed asked to do her homework and school projects for her. Not help. Do. None of it made any difference, she had decided that I was academic, she wasn't, and school wasn't for her and just stopped trying. I do wonder if she struggled with comparisons to me, as I was good at stuff like English and History (and well-behaved in class whereas she wasn't). But she still found something to do that she was passionate about and very good at (photography) and has made a good career out of it.

Maggie - stay safe, lovely. That all sounds a bit scary, that he's seen his friend go through it, he might tighten the reins to make absolutely sure you wont follow suit. Can you speed ahead with your plan?

Try, I had a knot in my stomach reading your post. It was so familiar, that churning worry and fear. I think even if he didn't hear your mutterings, he knows you are detaching. That's when he might up things. You stay safe too.

Juggling - still a rotten (and cold) time for the heating to go. Will it get fixed soon?

Teapot, good luck with the case. Will be thinking of you.

Argh, argh argh! Have been nervously checking my emails, waiting for a reply from the solicitor, only to realise that the email I sent yesterday morning never actually sent!! Numpty. Have resent it.

Sat in the council offices for an hour this morning, almost in tears. My housing benefits application, which I started in October, has been terminated - not because of anything I've done, but because they didn't hear back from the landlord on some stupid little point. How is that something I have any control over? Honestly, I've been back and forwards at least four times, taking in this document and that document as it's been requested. So I had to sit for an hour as the patient woman filled in my application form from scratch again (with a request for it to be backdated). I was all over the place - fumbling through documents, not able to get words out, shoogling DS2's pram as he cried. Had to keep apologising for myself, but just felt really tearful that this is still ongoing after me jumping through hoop after hoop already.

And to top it all, DS1 told me this morning that he doesn't like my hat!!!!!
'I'm sorry to tell you this Mummy, but I would like it if it was all pink, it's all the different colours I don't like.'
Up there with 'No, I don't like that top Mummy, it doesn't suit your face'!!!!!

'praps he'll think you're plotting murder Try !

aw Pony. You have resent the email, brilliant. Things will change now. Horrible experience for you (one of my biggest upsets and struggles - benefits - although a few of the people assisting were wonderful, and sounds like you had one with a heart too).

and.. with all dooo respect, don't look to your little one for top fashion tips! or take them to heart, I bet you look gorgeous in it

[Maggie] thats the spirit. Keep up the maneouvres. Nobody will be more gobsmacked than him when you disappear, as I don't think for one minute he REALLY believes you would go, he arrogantly assumes you wouldn't cope without him and couldn't bear to leave him, right! and, in that vein, he'll also likely think you have just got carried away with the silly ideas of the drinking buddy's OH! ha! ... mmmm. watching your space with interest. take care and be safe.

Leclerc result over DW! that was quick, lets hope all future negotiations will work out like that. Re; GCSE's great that DD already doing the WE as you'll be able to have chats about what she's getting from it, and which bits she enjoys/likes best, it will all focus her mind to start thinking about the repercussions. i..e would she want to stay at the local one or change practice, or work in a specific area, etc. Gives her your undivided attention and 'me' time, feeling supported and all those lovely things, as well as giving her mind a nudge to consider things a bit more again.

I gave 'church' a 2nd chance, as hated being forced to sunday school as a kid and just gave me guilt feelings. As an adult, found them to be one of the most self-righteous lot I've ever come across [as a group]. There were a couple in there who were friendly and showed interest/welcomed, but others very cold, etc. and decided to walk away again on many levels.

Juggling no heating... brrrrr... hope you can get it fixed up quick (they all seem v. expensive CH engineers and the good ones busy, but you are emergency with dc?) My tips, loads of layers, heat one room with borrowed/bought heater, hot food, which makes the kitchen hot cooking it! yummmy hot baths which makes the bathroom hot. I went through sub zero temps last year when heating broke, but I do have an open fire, when the water went too was final straw!

thinking of all you ladies.xx

Aw Pony, bureaucracy is the worst! I sneaked away from my ex to fill in the forms for council housing, and that was over ten years ago but only couple of weeks back, had an email from him saying he had filled in the forms and it was really his house (bizarre). About a year after we moved in, the council rang us to say they were investigating a claim that we had got the house fraudulently. It's now obvious who sent that in! Of course, they investigated and realised it was a malicious claim, pretty quickly but the stress of thinking I was going to lose the roof over my head with two little babies!

At the same time, I was on benefits as I had been unable to afford childcare and return to work and been forced by the benefits system to live off the money I made from selling my house and my benefits were suspended - again due to a claim I was committing fraud, somehow. Again, once investigated it was found malicious. But the stress of having no money whilst they investigated - you can imagine. When I was hauled in to the DSS office, the man left the paperwork unattended and I used my old teaching skills of 'reading upsidedown' - it was my ex who had contacted them. Even though it is a few years back now, I have never forgot the stress of dealing with these bureaucracies.

LeClerc it is those small things that are the worst though - like my pegging the washing out 'wrongly' (two items to one peg, overlapping therefore not drying 'perfectly'!) That was maybe in 2001 but I have never forgotten it because in some ways it is their insanity over the tiniest of things that is the most symptomatic of something wrong. A normal person wouldn't quibble over three quid, when they have caused the issue in the first place - or want to make you feel bad about your pegging style! These small things are the biggest red flag.