So miserable

[OhThisIsJustGrape]

Not really sure if relationships is the right topic for this.

I'm a SAHM with 4 DCs, two older ones and two little ones aged 2.5 and almost 5. DH works long hours running his own business.

Every day feels like groundhog day. I spend my whole life, it seems, cooking, cleaning, washing... The list goes on. I don't see anyone all day apart from on the school run and then I don't really talk to anyone. I only have two friends and they both work full time. DH comes home from work usually very stressed or knackered so doesn't really want to talk/listen or if he does I know he's thinking I'm complaining about nothing really.

The children just seem so full-on. Youngest dc is a real monkey, and the arguments between him and his sister are constant. Luckily she is at school full time but I dread the time after school when I'm trying to get tea cooked etc as I end up referreeing between the two of them. He really is going through the terrible twos and I'm struggling. He is an angel at weekends when DH is here though.

No-one cleans up after themselves, it's all left to me. I've tried taking things away from the eldest two if they don't clean their rooms but they don't care. Eldest DS works full time and pays board so I don't expect him to do much around the house, just like I don't expect DH to. A little consideration for me would be nice though.

That's the thing I'm struggling with I think - no one gives a shit about me. No one cares if I'm unhappy or lonely, no one asks how my day was. They all walk in to a meal on the table every evening and it's the end of the world if I'm ill or something because how will they survive - no one else cooks. Even Sundays are planned around what I'm cooking, I fucking hate cooking, DH knows this yet refuses to learn or help just at weekends so I can have a day off.

DH doesn't get involved in anything to do with the home or the kids. One example is I'm planning a party for DD1s birthday, he is refusing to come/help with ideas etc as he just doesn't want to. He feels he can opt out of things because I'll pick up the slack. Having said that, he is a very good father in terms of doing bedtimes, playing with the kids, will look after them if I have to go somewhere etc but he just won't help out with things like Christmas - this is a big issue for me. He never takes any interest in what I choose for the kids presents but always throws it back at me afterwards that I've spent too much/bought them a load of crap etc.

I can't work because I have no back up. All time off to cover kids being ill or holidays would be down to me. DD2 was ill with a heavy cold and temperature last Mon, Tues, Weds and Thurs. She went back to school Fri by which point DS2 had it. He was better by Tues but DD2 then developed an ear infection so has been off school since then. How the hell would I hold down a job with that much time off? Yet being at home every day is driving me mental. I know though, at least while the youngest two are small, that I'll never have the freedom to work without the responsibility and worry of childcare etc, unlike DH who can work whatever hours he likes because he knows I'm here to deal with all the shit pick up the pieces.

I know this is a self indulgent rant and I don't really expect any replies offering advice but there must be some of you in a similar boat who can rant with me? :)

I'm going to find a part time job, preferably evenings as if I can get him to agree to be home on time to have the kids then it means I don't have to spend those evenings with him :)

I can see now that having some independence will help me feel more
Confident about leaving him. I can't do it at the moment as that is one of the things he has thrown at me in the past - that I wouldn't be able to survive financially if I left.

How does the free half hour with solicitors work? What would be the most useful things I could ask about during that half hour?

With regards to having an affair, he doesn't class what he did before as infidelity. He says as far as he was concerned we were over, I was adamant that I didn't want him back (hardly surprising given that he'd hit me) and the one night stand was his way of starting to move forward. Just 10 days after he left. He says he is sorry about it and wouldn't do it again, part of me wishes he would so I would have an easy way out tbh.

Morning Grape. Great that you're thinking about getting a part-time job, but I think the chances of your OH bothering to get home in time so you can work in the evenings is pretty slim. Cue loads more aggro for you. Would you consider working a Saturday/Sunday instead, and leaving him in charge?

And obviously, when you come in from your hard day's work, you can expect your H to provide the full feet-up, meal-on-the-table routine he demands from you

It is great that you are thinking of getting some independence but from what you have written you ate being completely delusional about the support your DH will give you. He hasn't given much support up until now so why would that change? Factor in working around school hours or using a babysitter would be my advice.

Why would,you not be able to survive financially without him? Just because he says if does not mean it is true. I would stop beliwvwing everything he says to you as god given.

I understand what you're saying but childcare provision is dire around here. No childminders or nurseries within 12 miles which, whilst it wouldn't make it impossible to find childcare it would certainly limit my options. Therefore working evenings would be the easiest option but I too am not sure DH would get back in time.

I could work at a weekend but DH works on Saturdays and then I'd feel bad not being here on a Sunday as that's the only time we get to spend together as a family. Obviously that only applies if we stay in the marriage though.

He likes having me over a barrell I know, he admits that by having me here it enables him to do his job without any concerns over what happens at home. That's all very well but look where it's got us.

As to why he thinks I wouldn't be able to survive financially without him? He knows I'll never be able to afford a mortgage on my own but that doesn't actually bother me. I am fully aware that I couldn't stay in this house, even if I could pay the mortgage - which actually isn't that high - I'd never be able to buy him out as there is around £170k of equity in the house. Plus the running costs - things like filling the oil tank at nearly £1k a time would be impossible. I'd happily rent though :)

Your H is a twunt.

I'm on page 3, the more I read the more I think, find a way to leave the bastard.

You are basically a slave, he has got you where he wants you.

"That's all very well but look where it has got us". No no no! Look where it has got you. He has the life he wants.

Hi grape so maybe a Sunday job - would you be able to work in a pub/restaurant - Sunday lunches tend to be when they need extra help? Forget the family time - he doesn't prioritise it and when you end up leaving, the dcs will be having quality time with each of you separately anyway, so think of it as practice! Also if you find it's simply not working for you, you can always leave the job - a part time job is not for life, it's pretty easy come easy go

Re solicitors - you just call one up, google family lawyers (but hide your traces on line, delete browsing history or google it at internet cafe) in your area and call them. Most will operate a free initial half hour consultation as they know you have to find one who suits you in these circs. Take a piece of paper with any knowledge you have of your financial affairs and how long you've been together, value of house, equity (don't leave it lying around at home ) You don't have to have all info, they are used to having people in a scrambled state in their offices, they won't mind at all, it just helps them give you an idea of where you stand.

Go for it - even if you think you don't mean to follow through - it will be putting one foot in front of the other slowly - and it doesn't cost anything. All my baby steps that I thought wouldn't lead anywhere have made me stronger at each stage. It's mental strength we need really, the perceived difficulties are nothing to someone determined. But these practical steps will help you build your mental strength without scarily committing you IFSWIM! That's what I've found, anyway

Good luck, you're Worrrth It as they say in the ads

PS come on over to our thread when you're ready, as all the women (and one man) on there are in/have been in/are emerging from very similar situations and will understand about not being able to change everything at once and will support you whatever you end up doing.

Thinking of you

Beth, what do you get from sticking the knife in, really? A sense of superiority? She isn't like this because she is a pathetic spineless wimp, you know.

Grape, I am going to get flamed for saying this, but can I just tell you that just as you didn't get to this place overnight, nor will you be able to just snap your fingers and go 'I'm out of here'. This stuff takes time to emotionally and practically come to terms with.

For me to truly understand, absorb and accept that he really was like this (as you are doing now) took time. It took time to get over the shock, disbelief, hurt, anger, resentment to acceptance: THIS is who he really is.
Then, that time is also taken (and a bit more), to let go.

Why do I say that? Because you have to stop looking to him for love, recognition, validation, support - all the things you want, and which are so reasonable, and start detaching from him and looking to yourself for your resources. Which means, accepting that you are alone. It is so tempting to think: if he would only just...
And that means, realising the whole of your life has been a waste. A waste of your time, your hopes, your expectations of how you thought it would be. And that just f in HURTS.

You see, he is never, ever ever going to change. He might be the 1 in a 1000, but I doubt it. He really IS this selfish, he really is this focussed on himself, he really DOES feel that little for who you really are, he really does ignore you to this extent. Your needs, feelings, wishes and hopes are really THAT unimportant to him. This unlove really IS where you really are at.
And to really absorb this, you have to accept it, and let go of those hopes and dreams, longing for attachment and recognition from him and truly know how alone you are. It means you have to emotionally separate your focus from him, and put it onto yourself.

MN seems to think that this can happen overnight, but as a SAHM who didn't have any sort of other identity, I have found it has taken me a long, long time (about 3 years tbh). It is hard to face how ground down you have been, by every little act of neglect and not being listened to and disrespect, it sort of becomes your new normal.

So many things you wrote, I was nodding along to. So I just wanted to say: be kind to yourself. If your twins are tiny at the moment, don't despise yourself for factoring in that you might need to carry on until they are, say, 5/at school before you set out for that job. It doesn't mean you are a failure, it means that you are factoring in all the issues AND you can do a lot of silent personal work in the mean time.

I personally think the emotional work you do now (to take the energy off of what he is doing/not doing, and on to yourself) will stand you in good stead. So you get to a place where you are strong enough tell the kids to pull their weight, not to ask him/expect his co-operation, but you will tell him. 'I am getting a job and if you are not home to pick them up from after school club they will be going to X the childminders', 'it is Christmas and I need £400' (repeat calmly and without justification until he either hits you or gives you it. If he hits you, call the police, if he gives you it, thank him with respect because YOU now have self-respect).

This stuff is hard, hard work and takes a long time and a lot of self-belief to get centred and a sense of self so you can then ACT. If you are still stuck on him and what he is doing, it doesn't matter if you are 100 miles away you are still tied in. I have been sneered at enough times by MN explaining this, but I just wanted to let you know I know where you are, and to start your quiet work TODAY. By being honest about how unhappy and alone you really are. I really understand, love Wobbly.

PS. and start stashing money. Now. Open an account he has no idea about, and make sure no paperwork comes to the house. Seriously, I really mean it. £5 here, a tenner there. I hide mine in books about affairs/becoming a better human being - because those books are kryptonite to him !!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha

Really sound advice from trying, it is all about taking baby steps in the right direction.

I agree too that working on a Sunday would be the best course for you for now - try your local library or a shop, 10-4. I think it's important that your H gets to know what it feels like to be solely in charge of the DCs.

Can't remember if you have said whether DC4 is at nursery yet? Life will certainly get a lot easier then. Try to form friendships with the other mums and you might be able to get into a childcare swap situation - i.e. your little one brings a friend back for lunch and a play once a week, and you reciprocate on another day. That way you'd maybe be able to squeeze in another regular half day of work.

Does your H really work all day every Saturday?

Also, the other reason to get centred on yourself, is that when you call him on his selfishness/insensitivity etc. you don't get invested in the outcome (which he will always insist on winning and it gets turned into a power struggle you lose).

So, you calmly state your truth knowing it is the truth, and however he takes it it his problem (which it always was: his problem). That takes a LOT of work, to let go of the anger and the hope (that this time he will hear you), and it takes the power back. Because no matter what he does or says, it doesn't touch you, because you believe in yourself and his retaliation doesn't stick any more.

Thank you Wobbly for taking the time to type all that out. It makes for painful reading but you are spot on. I know he will say that life won't get easier if we split because all the shit work will still be there for me to do - i'll still have to cook and clean etc BUT I won't have any expectations of him to help me out. The resentment that I feel towards him for walking away from the house every morning and not giving us a second thought until he returns 12hrs later will no longer be there. Separating won't solve everything but if I know I'm on my own then I won't be looking to him for support/love/help. Does that make sense? Am I interpreting your post correctly?

DC4 not at nursery yet, I'm hoping to start him at preschool after Easter. This will give me a couple of mornings a week to myself which will be wonderful.

DH doesn't work all day on Saturdays anymore. He used to, despite me often pleading with him not to but just recently he has cut it back to just a half day but is usually not back until 2pm which means there's not much left of the day really if I wanted to work. Also by him getting back at that time it still prevents us going anywhere as a family as by the time he has eaten and then got showered its really not worth bothering as not enough time before tea. He'll deny it but he could probably finish an hour earlier which would make a difference but that would be asking too much of him when he has already compromised enough by not working until 5pm like he used to.

The thing is, the only reason he now has a Saturday afternoon at home is because there is something in it for him. He really relishes spending time with the youngest two and he will take them outside on a Saturday which they all love. Before, he couldn't see the benefit for him to be here more so just didn't bother. Despite my pleas for help or even just because I wanted him to be here with me. It's all on his terms.

I have honestly spent years sitting around like a dog waiting for him to throw whatever scraps of spare time he has at me. Over the years though it has very much changed from me wanting him to spend more time here with me as a family to me wanting him here more to help with the children or so I can go out to get shopping etc without dragging the kids out with me. That says a lot doesn't it.

Yup. In my H brain something happened when I gave birth to our first. I ceased to be a person and became 'mum' and housewife. And that was it. I disappeared as a human being to him. I used to beg to go out, just him and me, even to watch a film (just to get away from the kids) and he would refuse. I would end up walking the streets of London just to have some time away from the kids. Did he care? No.

We never ever went out. To him being a workaholic coming home to be with his family was bliss so why shouldn't it be bliss for me.

It didn't matter what I said, how I said it he never ever heard me. All he would say is 'this house looks like a tip'. I was just a housekeeper and nanny to him.

He ended up treating me worse and worse and with less respect. Nothing you could ever really put your finger on, you know? Not talking to me about his day, not telling me about what was going on with him, ignoring me, walking down the road 5 steps ahead acting like I wasnt' there, holding one of the children's hands whilst I trotted along. Never consulting me about money or purchases, the silent treatment, all of it making me feel angry and unhappy but all of it HIDDEN. he would only touch me when he wanted sex. And not 'notice' when I pointed this out. And I loved him so much I didn't 'notice' the significance, you know? I would always dream about him not being there for me though...

After 15 years he had a 2 year affair and that is when I woke up (like you are now). I am not going to lie to you it is the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. Nobody is EVER going to hurt me like this again, but I have to face that I gave my heart and my life to someone who took me for granted. Bottom line. Now I give my heart and my life back to myself. its taken a long time and the kids are more grown (littlest was 7 when all this sh*t started) and now it is time for me uni and work wise.

Him? Moaning about how he has lost his relationship, feeling like a complete victim and blaming me for 'punishing' him. Whatever. I now accept him for who he really is - that is, a person who is incapable of seeing me and accepting my reality which would mean he would have to think about me. I cuddle a teddy bear at night and give/get hugs my children. That is what I have, trying to get connection from him would end me giving more than I got, and that is more hurt. It is less hurtful to accept the truth, really. The only thing I would respond to is serious signs of change as outlined by Lundy Bancroft, and there is no sign of those so onwards and upwards.

And also, what am I modelling my children? What am I showing them about love, affection, respect, joy in a family?

I do really and truly know that he had his problems long before I showed up on the scene, and I didn't cause them, I can't control them and I can't cure them only he can and he doesn't want to.

What I am angry about is with myself: that I didn't believe who he was (selfish, no interest in listening/compromise) when he showed me the first few times, and I was STUPID enough to think my love would change him. Boy, am I going to tell my daughters about this when they are old enough. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Some great advice on here.