So miserable

[OhThisIsJustGrape]

Not really sure if relationships is the right topic for this.

I'm a SAHM with 4 DCs, two older ones and two little ones aged 2.5 and almost 5. DH works long hours running his own business.

Every day feels like groundhog day. I spend my whole life, it seems, cooking, cleaning, washing... The list goes on. I don't see anyone all day apart from on the school run and then I don't really talk to anyone. I only have two friends and they both work full time. DH comes home from work usually very stressed or knackered so doesn't really want to talk/listen or if he does I know he's thinking I'm complaining about nothing really.

The children just seem so full-on. Youngest dc is a real monkey, and the arguments between him and his sister are constant. Luckily she is at school full time but I dread the time after school when I'm trying to get tea cooked etc as I end up referreeing between the two of them. He really is going through the terrible twos and I'm struggling. He is an angel at weekends when DH is here though.

No-one cleans up after themselves, it's all left to me. I've tried taking things away from the eldest two if they don't clean their rooms but they don't care. Eldest DS works full time and pays board so I don't expect him to do much around the house, just like I don't expect DH to. A little consideration for me would be nice though.

That's the thing I'm struggling with I think - no one gives a shit about me. No one cares if I'm unhappy or lonely, no one asks how my day was. They all walk in to a meal on the table every evening and it's the end of the world if I'm ill or something because how will they survive - no one else cooks. Even Sundays are planned around what I'm cooking, I fucking hate cooking, DH knows this yet refuses to learn or help just at weekends so I can have a day off.

DH doesn't get involved in anything to do with the home or the kids. One example is I'm planning a party for DD1s birthday, he is refusing to come/help with ideas etc as he just doesn't want to. He feels he can opt out of things because I'll pick up the slack. Having said that, he is a very good father in terms of doing bedtimes, playing with the kids, will look after them if I have to go somewhere etc but he just won't help out with things like Christmas - this is a big issue for me. He never takes any interest in what I choose for the kids presents but always throws it back at me afterwards that I've spent too much/bought them a load of crap etc.

I can't work because I have no back up. All time off to cover kids being ill or holidays would be down to me. DD2 was ill with a heavy cold and temperature last Mon, Tues, Weds and Thurs. She went back to school Fri by which point DS2 had it. He was better by Tues but DD2 then developed an ear infection so has been off school since then. How the hell would I hold down a job with that much time off? Yet being at home every day is driving me mental. I know though, at least while the youngest two are small, that I'll never have the freedom to work without the responsibility and worry of childcare etc, unlike DH who can work whatever hours he likes because he knows I'm here to deal with all the shit pick up the pieces.

I know this is a self indulgent rant and I don't really expect any replies offering advice but there must be some of you in a similar boat who can rant with me? :)

You took him back after what he did to you?

And you are still unhappy.

I hardly ever say this, but what did you expect ? Are you still hoping things will improve ? That he is a decent man ?

It seems to me you have 2 choices. Stay and remain a resentful and unhappy domestic appliance or decide you will tolerate no more. Your Children also deserve Better examples of what is respectful behaviour, and what is actually damaging about deciding to stay in such a destructive situation

Any chance to access some counselling just for yourself with the view if building your self confidence / esteem? You can always give another reason to DH. I realise you will have to negotiate for budget.

Maybe negotiate a budget for everything: Xmas toys, groceries, outings, taxi, cleaner... You can them save a portion or spend on counselling.

I am not of great experience so I will leave others recommend better avenues.

Hugs.

It just gets better and better judging by what you have just said - so not only is he emotionally abusive to you hes been violent to, in front of your children! Yes hes agreat Dad I would say

I realise you are worn down and most likely depressed to and I dont mean to sound brutual but staying means nothing will change - this man doesnt respect you at all - and your children will grow up with a warped view of relationships and have to watch their Dad slowly destroy their Mum.

oh grape sorry that it's still all going on. I remember your thread well, you seemed so depressed then. FWIW, I don't really remember a flaming, lots of people were sympathetic and I remember you had a lot of good advice about how to move forward and do something for yourself. I imagine that if you are depressed, it's pretty impossible to implement any of it. Can you use the time your youngest is in nursery to get some counselling? Have you seen your GP?

anyfucker has summed it all up well (as always!), the situation is just not going to change on its own.

When he told you that if you split up he would just got back to his mother's, he was telling you with astonishing clarity how he sees you.

As a housekeeper.

Even before I got to the bit where he'd been violent and unfaithful, I assumed he was contracting out sex to someone else.

The Dad role has got nothing to do with your personal relationship and so all you've said you get out of this relationship is a gilded cage.

That you get to clean every day.

Don't you want someone who'll be your lover, your friend, your rock and your confidante? Someone who will care passionately about you as a person, who will nurture all your dreams?

Why wouldn't you want that for yourself?

"I 'earn' (in theory only I'm afraid) about £900/month after tax. He always tells me I'll be double taxed if I work, I don't question it as I know nothing about all that."

I calculate that you're on the books as earning £12,000 gross to get back to £900 net. Do you see that £900 in your bank account each month? If not, it's likely he's committing fraud by having fake employees on the books. Demand your £900 so that you have an income.... it's yours by right.

If you got a job (and I still think you should go for that) you would not be 'double taxed'. However, anything you earned would be added to your £12,000 gross for tax purposes i.e. you've used up your personal allowance.

I think you're frightened of this man which is why you don't speak up about anything. I feel sorry that you're choosing to live this way rather than make a happier, independent life for yourself and your children but it's your decision. However, I would suggest you contact Womens Aid and get their advice. Some counselling may help you see a way out of this.

Oh OP this is just awful.

If you hate it and resent it now, you need to think how you will feel after another 5,10 years of this!
I appreciate the last split was hard but honestly the children will be fine. You cannot go on like this, you only get one life, are you willing to accept this is it? Does everyone else in the family deserve to be treated like kings whilst you are a slave to them?
You are not the sum parts of a cook, cleaner & skivvy. You are a person. You can be a person in your own right as well as a wife & mother.

Only you can change this situation. The others have no cause to change it as it's all rosey for them. It falls to you make the decisions on what happens from here. It really doesn't need to be like that.

Your £900 a month has paid for his little sports car whilst you have to sell your own things to buy Christmas presents for HIS children. They are HIS children too. He doesn't get to check out of family life just because he can't be arsed. This man makes me so angry.

Ok, sounds like you feel trapped in part because DH also feels trapped. So get some childcare so you and he can have a few nights out or weekends away.

1. Food. Once a week have Toast Supper Night, where everyone makes themselves toast with whatever is available on it. Once a week as well have takeaway food.
2. Small children will do chores if there is a. an incentive - helping points etc - and/or b, an element of competition. We used to set a timer and see who could stack the dishwasher quickest without breakages. DSs will often do housework if they can play loud music while doing so.
3. It's one thing for you to decide housework is your role, another for someone else to TELL you that. Get a part-time job and sort out some childcare for it; you need to get out of the house. Then have a rota for room cleaning, and DONT do it for them if it isn't done.

He feels trapped????!!!!! He attacks her, shags around, treats her like a maid, encourages their older children to do the same thing, swindles her out of an income.... and you think date nights and incentives for small children are the answer?

I feel I need to clarify the wages situation. The £900/month gets paid into our joint account, as does his earnings. I don't have this money for myself any more than DH has his money for himself, our joint income pretty much gets swallowed up by day to day living expenses. I don't know anything about the double tax aspect, all I know is that DH told me if I was to get a job in tesco for example, a couple of evenings a week earning £60 then I would be taxed on it. DH said it wouldn't be worth me bothering.

The one difference between us is that DH often gets cash jobs so often has a few hundred in his wallet. This money is usually used for meals out, day trips etc. however, I never know exactly how much he has at any one time hence him managing to squirrel away £6k to pay for his car. His argument is that he works hard and has nothing for himself - no hobbies, not interested in clothes/gadgets etc etc so buying the car was the one thing he wanted to do for himself. I wouldnt have a problem with this at all if we could afford it but when we never take the kids on holiday i personally would say there are higher priorities. It really stung when it came out that he had this money but, whereas in the past i wouldve kicked off this time I just didnt have the fight in me. I've had it out with him that I have no personal money therefore no autonomy but it falls on deaf ears.

I can't decide whether it's the daily grind getting me down or DH. I know the two are interlinked but I cant throw away my marriage just because DH doesn't cook. Also, if I'm struggling now surely it would be harder totally on my own?

And yes, I wish I'd never taken him back the last time. Mainly because I'd be over it by now and also even more happened after he came back and it fucked my head up forever more which I can't forgive him for :(

Its not to late, you can still get your dignity back, this man has bullied you for long enough. The £900 a month doesn't exist, its what he tells the tax man he pays you so he doesn't have to pay tax on it, its common practice. The fact is that he still has this money in turnover and isn't paying tax on it, you are being used to commit tax evasion - im not sure if it is strictly illegal as I "charge" my DP for doing his accounts etc, he doesn't actually pay me to do this but of course we save as we don't have to pay someone else, but he would have to so we don't pay tax on what i charge. I keep it realistic though - what is he saying that you do for that wage? He is on very thin ice i can tell you.

He is a vile bully that wont let you work wont give you money for yourself and you have to sell your own things to buy your kids presents??? what for? a big house - not worth it!

I think you need to get some counselling to un fuck your head and get away from this man, you know that he will probably leave you when the kids leave home and he wont have to pay maintainance don't you? Because he will be able to hire a housekeeper then! Sorry to be so blunt but you really need to see him for what he is :(

I think you'd be ending the marriage because your husband doesn't love you- not that he doesn't cook.

Have you realised that yet?

Ok, I hear you all. The bit about him not loving me cut like a knife :(

If I was to say all this to him, he would ask what I want him to do. He'd say he works hard, provides for us etc and make me feel bad for asking more of him. What would I say to him? In the past when I've asked for help he has said fine, I'll give up work and do everything then. Which, of course, is not what I'm asking.

He has the ability to make everything I complain about sound really petty. Maybe that's because it is?

I assure you that wasn't to hurt you, but to get you to realise how low your standards of a relationship have become.

Even now, you're trying to convince yourself that your needs are 'petty'.

Someone who loved the bones of you wouldn't treat you like this- and you know it.

The housework and cooking is a mere distraction.

This man neither loves nor respects you- and that's the core of it.

If you stay with someone despite that- I feel very sad for you.

*If I was to say all this to him, he would ask what I want him to do. He'd say he works hard, provides for us etc and make me feel bad for asking more of him. What would I say to him? In the past when I've asked for help he has said fine, I'll give up work and do everything then. Which, of course, is not what I'm asking.

He has the ability to make everything I complain about sound really petty. Maybe that's because it is?*

He makes you feel small and petty because it suits him for you to feel that way. You have had been conditioned into believing it for years, making it harder for you to get your argument out coherently. I imagine when you do crack every so often you never say half of what you want because you are at the end of your tether. Therefore he can say you are 'hysterical' or some such nonsense.

When I said you £900 paid for the car, I didn't meant it look at it literally. I meant that by ensuring you can't work (as you technically work for him) he has been able to squirrel away this money. Can you not see the complete lack of respect/thought he has for you? He thinks it is acceptable for him to do this. Tell you want to buy yourself a bike or something and see what he says about you having something nice for yourself.

He doesn't treat you as an equal because he doesn't value what you do. You either tell him to leave or book yourself a day out and leave everything to him. Kids, house, meals all of it. If that doesn't give him a clue nothing will.

I cannot believe there are partners out there who don't stand up when the person they love is suffering through being ill. If you can't rely on your life partner to be there when you are sick then when the fuck can you?

(for the record, I don't think ONE day out will fix this and I'm not sure this man has any redeeming qualities, however, if you want to try something before making a life altering decision, this might give you an idea)

I know it wasn't said to hurt me.

DH had some health issues a couple of months ago, which turned out to be fine, and it put everything into perspective. Despite everything, I do love him and I don't know if I could be without him. Also, apart from the kids, he is all I've got. My mum died years ago and I don't get on with the rest of my family. If we split up I really would be on my own (which I found out last time).

However, I know he'll never change. He could put a but more effort in but ultimately things would slip back and I'll never change his mind set that work comes before everything else.

How do I make a decision to leave him knowing that I would lose everything. I've been with him all my adult life. I've supported him whilst he built his business, and we've had some really tough times with that alone. Things are looking up financially in the near future and I would be throwing all that away. I know money isn't everything but I feel that in some part I've also worked hard towards that future - effectively I'd end up watching someone else reap the rewards of all that as I have no doubt that he would replace me pretty sharpish. It didn't exactly take him long last time.

I was not totally surprised to read either that you met this person when you were 17 and perhaps also at that time in a bad place yourself. You were ideal prey for such an abusive man.

Abused women stay in bad relationships simply because nobody taught them how to recognize an abusive relationship when they fell into one. Two things leave women vulnerable to abusers; lack of information and lack of self-worth. Nobody would willingly put themselves through that misery. What follows are 7 critical mistakes that all women unknowingly make that put them at risk - that you doubtless made also.

1. You bring a lot of unresolved negative programming to your relationship.

You may say that you were riding high before you met your abusive partner. (Abused women frequently tell me that they were doing well before they met their emotionally abusive partner.) That may well be true. But here is the other side of the coin: you felt bad about yourself; you had low self-esteem. You didn?t really believe you deserved the best. In fact, you didn?t believe you deserved very much at all. That is why you settled for a partner who you actively disliked at first glance. Chances are your parent(s) trained you to expect to be treated as inferior.

1. You don?t have clearly stated needs, wants and expectations at the start of a relationship.

Well, you wouldn?t, would you? You were trained to be less worthy (than pretty well everyone). So how could you possibly imagine that your needs, wants and expectations would be important to anyone ? even you. Maybe you thought that if you could just get your partner to love you, then he would want to focus on your needs, wants and expectations. It?s a nice theory, but it doesn?t work, because it is like trying to rewrite a contract, after it has been duly signed and witnessed. The contract you actually signed up to stated that both of you would focus your energy on meeting his needs, wants and expectations. Why would he want to change a state of affairs that suits him perfectly.

1. You are brilliant at putting yourself last.

It?s probably in the context of your relationship with your abusive partner (and offspring) that the word ?martyr? comes up most frequently. But you are an Olympic medallist at people-pleasing. Your unvoiced hope is that, one day, if you do enough for other people, they will finally reciprocate. How long have you got? If it hasn?t happened yet, the overwhelming likelihood is that it never will. A wise person once said: ?Today is practice for tomorrow.? What you are actually practising is throwing good love after bad; while your partner is practising bleeding you dry. If today is practice for tomorrow, what do you think tomorrow might look like?

1. You are quick to believe the best about everyone - except yourself.

You?ve grown up in the fantasy kingdom of The Pedestal. The most precious thing in this kingdom is the pedestal on which one lucky person gets to stand, because of their outstanding personal merit. Maybe, at the start of the relationship, your abusive partner allowed you to stand momentarily on his pedestal. But an abusive man soon reclaims it ? by right, of course. Standing on the pedestal means that he is The Best ? and you are a sorry excuse for a woman, a partner and a human being. Because he says so, you believe it; and because you stand so far below him, you find it easy to believe that you stand far below everyone else also. Believing is seeing, is it not?

1. You fail to learn from experience.

An abusive relationship represents the ? insane ? triumph of hope over experience. Every time you tell yourself that it won?t happen again, that it will get better, that you can believe his apologies (if he still bothers to say he is sorry); and every time it does happen again. The only difference is that it gets a little worse. And you hang on in the relationship, by tooth and nail, in the vain hope that it will get better. You hang on while the months turn into years, maybe even into decades? but it never does get any better.

1. You don?t hold your abusive partner accountable.

Perhaps you tell him that you don?t like his behaviour. You may even have left him, on occasion, for a while. But, sooner or later, you ?forgive him?. You take him back, and the abuse starts all over again. Why? Because he knows that although you might make the ?right noises?, there are no real deterrents to his behaviour. He knows that, whatever you say, when push comes to shove (as it often does) you will put up with whatever he dishes out. In an abusive relationship, you get the behaviour that you are prepared to tolerate. How do I define the term ?tolerate?? What you do not draw a line in the sand under, in reality, you tolerate? Under which of his behaviours have you actually drawn a line in the sand?

1. You become a denial superstar.

Distorting the true importance of what happens is a lot easier than changing his attitudes and behaviours. So, you tell yourself, and the world, a story that is less unpalatable than the reality. ?He can?t help it?, ?he doesn?t mean it?, ?he loves me, really?, ?he?s had a difficult childhood?, ?it?s just the alcohol?, ?he?s going through a really hard time?, are some of the stories you tell yourself to explain his treatment of you. The next stage is: ?I don?t blame him for feeling like that?, ?it?s my fault, because I??, ?if I hadn?t done X, he wouldn?t have??. And then there is: ?he?s no worse than a lot of men?. Your justifications sanction his bad behaviour. By refusing to admit what is really happening in your relationship, you collude with him to allow the abuse to continue.

What do you get from this relationship now?.

He has you well trapped in the gilded cage partly of your own making but you can still be free of him.

If you leave him you will just lose him and that will not ultimately be such a big loss to you. What sort of life do you want for you and your children?.

You also need proper legal advice re separation, what you have recently written about someone else potentially getting more financial benefit is pure supposition.

He does not love you and treats you as a mere possession to use and mistreat as he sees fit. He also does this partly because he can and also because he actively enjoys seeing your discomforture and distress.

Where do you see yourself in a year's time - still with this person?.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships, currently the two of you are imparting all your children damaging lessons about same.

I don't mean to sound nasty or antagonistic but you need to start setting a good example by making your sons help and and your DH,

you probably know you are making them a rod for someone else s back and soon their future wives,GF's will be sat here in this very situation, do you want to be responsible for that?.

I'm not sure it's really like that. We were both just kids when we got together, although I already had DS1 who was just a baby. DH took him on and has brought him up very much as his own. He is a good man in that respect because believe me, with all DS's needs it would've been much easier for him to walk away.

I did have to fight to keep DH when we first got together, he was a young lad used to going out on the piss, shagging whatever, he wasn't ready to settle down but I wanted to. We didn't even live together until 4yrs into our relationship which is when our first child together was born.

I was always the fiery one, I used to push him away a lot and it was always him who fought to keep us together. Until we'd both had enough which was when we split up that time.

Now it's as though neither of us can be bothered to fight so the resentment just simmers without anything really getting resolved. I'm not sure I'd describe him as abusive, there certainly hasn't been any physical abuse since the time we split up.

He is not naturally affectionate with me, only really if he thinks he might get sex. It's a viscious circle though, I don't want sex when things are the way we are yet we are a lot closer when we are having lots of sex. I know he gets resentful when theres a bit of a drought.

It's all a bit of a mess really.

So, realistically then, you don't want to and have no intention of leaving him?

No one is saying you HAVE to leave, we all think you should, but i know where you are coming from. It is a big deal to leave and if you don't have a support network around you, it would be tough.

If i were you i would be saying, "fuck you then" and doing your own thing - start earning your own money, you might have to pay for childcare out of this (he should contribute to be fair), hire a cleaner to take the pressure off and start doing some work that you find fulfilling. What did you do before? Leave him, in your head - stay in the house, carry on as is - you never know, you may actually want to leave when you realise what there is out there for you?

Do insist that your eldest helps out, the problem is, all through your childrens lives their father has treated you like a skivvy and now the children are seeing that its OK to do this. Make it clear to them that it is absolutely not ok and you are no longer going to be the unpaid maid to everyone. Those who can do for themselves had better start chipping in and helping - even if its little things like fillin the washing basket etc.

Maybe tht is the way to go. Make myself more independent then I will be in a better place should I decide to leave.

Financially I would get very little if we split. He has always said he'd provide well for the kids but would rather bust the business than watch me take half.

Oh, hes a real catch isn't he!