So miserable

[OhThisIsJustGrape]

Not really sure if relationships is the right topic for this.

I'm a SAHM with 4 DCs, two older ones and two little ones aged 2.5 and almost 5. DH works long hours running his own business.

Every day feels like groundhog day. I spend my whole life, it seems, cooking, cleaning, washing... The list goes on. I don't see anyone all day apart from on the school run and then I don't really talk to anyone. I only have two friends and they both work full time. DH comes home from work usually very stressed or knackered so doesn't really want to talk/listen or if he does I know he's thinking I'm complaining about nothing really.

The children just seem so full-on. Youngest dc is a real monkey, and the arguments between him and his sister are constant. Luckily she is at school full time but I dread the time after school when I'm trying to get tea cooked etc as I end up referreeing between the two of them. He really is going through the terrible twos and I'm struggling. He is an angel at weekends when DH is here though.

No-one cleans up after themselves, it's all left to me. I've tried taking things away from the eldest two if they don't clean their rooms but they don't care. Eldest DS works full time and pays board so I don't expect him to do much around the house, just like I don't expect DH to. A little consideration for me would be nice though.

That's the thing I'm struggling with I think - no one gives a shit about me. No one cares if I'm unhappy or lonely, no one asks how my day was. They all walk in to a meal on the table every evening and it's the end of the world if I'm ill or something because how will they survive - no one else cooks. Even Sundays are planned around what I'm cooking, I fucking hate cooking, DH knows this yet refuses to learn or help just at weekends so I can have a day off.

DH doesn't get involved in anything to do with the home or the kids. One example is I'm planning a party for DD1s birthday, he is refusing to come/help with ideas etc as he just doesn't want to. He feels he can opt out of things because I'll pick up the slack. Having said that, he is a very good father in terms of doing bedtimes, playing with the kids, will look after them if I have to go somewhere etc but he just won't help out with things like Christmas - this is a big issue for me. He never takes any interest in what I choose for the kids presents but always throws it back at me afterwards that I've spent too much/bought them a load of crap etc.

I can't work because I have no back up. All time off to cover kids being ill or holidays would be down to me. DD2 was ill with a heavy cold and temperature last Mon, Tues, Weds and Thurs. She went back to school Fri by which point DS2 had it. He was better by Tues but DD2 then developed an ear infection so has been off school since then. How the hell would I hold down a job with that much time off? Yet being at home every day is driving me mental. I know though, at least while the youngest two are small, that I'll never have the freedom to work without the responsibility and worry of childcare etc, unlike DH who can work whatever hours he likes because he knows I'm here to deal with all the shit pick up the pieces.

I know this is a self indulgent rant and I don't really expect any replies offering advice but there must be some of you in a similar boat who can rant with me? :)

Gah,, quiet

We don't think you are trivial

Is it ever worth giving him another chance? If I laid it on the line and see if he's prepared to change?

I know deep down though that if we didn't have children together I could walk away. In fact, we both know that we would've split years ago if we didn't have children.

Could you do an exercise on here?

Write down all the reasons you love him.

Then write down how he demonstrates his love for you.

Restrict this list to the two of you and your romantic relationship; no kids, houses, businesses or other people.

This is a horrid situation that reminds me v much of my own. I don't have 4 kids but before I went back to work there were v common themes in my marriage and yours op. the one which rang extra true was the 'oh shall I just give up work and we will have no money' garbage from your dh. Mine would say exactly that if I whined and that would be the end of the conversation. That and the one night stand days after a b traumatic split and being attacked in front of the dc.

I went back to work v much against the wishes of my then H. He tried everything to sabotage including hiding my interview clothes etc 5 minutes before I had to leave. It didn't work I got the job - friends intervened and coached me for the interview. Marriage broke down b quickly after I started work as I knew it would but I had wrenched back some independence both financially and otherwise. Even just having work colleagues who treat me like an equal adult helped immeasurably - especially the male ones as they showed me how unreasonable and awful dh was to me at home. I wouldn't say I'm that close to my colleagues but the difference in atmosphere between work and home became so glaringly alarming almost imediately.
I left around 6 months after I went back to work. I made sure I was last the probation period it was my final safety net. I get tax credits etc and so will you. The first few weeks were scary but after that an enormous weight lifted and I didn't look back. Day to day the dc and I have a fan time and life is easy really. I struggle internally though - mostly because I realise all the time what atrocious behaviour I had accepted and normalised for do long all with this pathetic belief I was doing the best for my family - but clearly not myself!

I deeply empathise with you op but its like this - you need to get out x

Beth I have been thinking about your list since last night. If I'm not allowed to say things like 'he works hard to provide for us' and 'he's a great dad' because that's about work or the children then I'm struggling to think of things tbh. But at the same time, I'm not sure he'd have anything to put if he were to make the same list about me. When things are good between us they are very good but when they're bad it's awful.

amarylis I have a feeling that if I got a life outside of the home it would open my eyes to many things. I don't think he would stop me from getting a job but I'm certain his lack of support would hinder my chances of keeping a job.

If you are not ready or don't want to leave him then why don't you look at making the best of your current situation. Rather than changing him, change yourself. Why can't you get a job? Even a part time one whilst the younger children are at school? Or even look at a full time job with suitable Childcare. You can constantly say it wont work or I cant but then nothing will ever change. Working will give you some independence, pin money and will give you the chance to interact with other people. Don't worry about the double tax thing. You can overcome that if needs be.

You are the food provider so have a pizza/takeaway night once a week. Noone is going to die from lack of home cooked meal. that way you are getting the break you want.

Sounds like you want change but dont want an end to your marriage so look at ways of making it better.

Best of luck.

Oc

I know, I need to be proactive rather than doing nothing and moaning.

It's so hard when my confidence is in tatters to actually put myself out there. That's not down to him though, it's more the circumstances of the last few years being at home with two young children.

I imagine after a number of years it is hard to get your mojo. There are many who think being a sAHM is holy grail but so many hate the isolation.

Once you start taking the baby steps your confidence will start coming back I am sure. Start writing up your CV and remembering all you used to be good at in work.

Is there a parents council at your children's school? Could you join that so you start interacting other people and gaining some confidence?

Could you place an ad in the local centre to look for a babysitter or maybe there ione teenager on the road so they not too expensive and prohibitive allowing you to do some stuff for yourself.

Hi Grape, hope you're okay this morning.

I just found a thread you posted on Christmas Eve last year. Hope you don't mind me pasting this in:

*Things haven't been great for a while, I'm resentful of how much of his time is taken up by work - I think he feels I'm not supportive enough. I've had PND for over a year, he's been very little help to me. We don't argue as such, it's more of a case that we can't be bothered to make conversation

I've done everything for Christmas, only input he has had is to moan at how many presents I've bought the children. I haven't spent money we don't have, we haven't gone into debt for it. They really aren't getting loads of things.

DH hates Christmas, never misses an opportunity to mention how much he hates it. Even the DCs know he doesn't like it. He managed to go out for a night on the last two weekends running though 'because it's christmas' I never go anywhere.

Anyway, I've cooked Christmas dinner today (I prefer to have it today rather than Christmas day), cleaned the house from top to bottom, done lots of extra cooking and baking. DH has been looking after the DCs which is obviously a huge help. Tonight though, he has managed to binge his way through 3/4 of a bottle of Jack Daniels and is now dead to the world in bed. He'll feel like shut tomorrow and ruin Christmas and right now, I hate him for it.

Why did he have to do it? I put so much effort into it and every year it seems he sets out to fuck it up. He won't want to get up in the morning and he'll be grumpy with the kids.

At this moment I want out of our marriage. Oh, and he hasn't bought me anything for Christmas. He'll say he was too busy at work.*

Sorry, Grape, but this is truly not how a so-called 'great dad' behaves.

You said all this a year ago. Nothing has changed.

I really hope you find the strength to make some changes. You and your DCs deserve much, much more than this.

Thank you for posting that, I'd completely forgotten he had done that. Just goes to show I guess that it was nothing out of the ordinary for him to behave like that. Fwiw, I don't remember him ruining Christmas day due to it, not that it makes it any better. Stings all the more though reading how I'd not spent money we didn't have - no, I'd sold stuff of mine to ensure that didn't happen while the cunt was squirrelling thousands away for his fucking car.

I feel very :( now.

Oh, I remember now, he handed me £200 on Christmas day to go shopping in the sales. Very generous yes and it is what I wanted but I know deep down that he only does it because it's easier for him. I'd rather have less cash and a small token just to prove he'd put some effort into me for a change.

Sorry, Grape, didn't mean for you to feel . Just wanted you to see that this has been going on for years.

Seems like you are running yourself ragged, making yourself ill even, in an effort to compensate for all the things that your H isn't doing. Okay, so he works long hours and provides for you all. But you are the only one putting any effort into the family, and he doesn't appear to value that at all.

So he's obstructive as well - re that Xmas post.
Exp moaned like hell about Xmas, birthday parties or anything where he might have to slightly out himself out - holidays too.
The work thing is so familiar. Exp works in an offshore industry and is self employed. No one is allowed to question the holy sanctity of his work and it must be prioritised loudly over everything. What that translates to is that exp couldn't be expected to be responsible for any single other event or commitment unless they were of his choosing. A friends wedding or child's birthday would only ever be attended at the last minute but an army reunion (which happen twice a year every year!) could not be missed whether I was dying or not. Was always the same - no I can't possibly commit to one day next year work work work do you want us to starve? It wax so bloody rude because we had huge cash reserves (exp also extremely controlling with money but quite savvy too) . Me personally I don't see the point in all this cash aquasition if you have nothing to show for it - and by that I mean experiences and decent family time not necessarily material possessions. Exp also thought footing the bill got him out of anything he didn't fancy doing. This resulted in me, like you, being in a constant state of exhaustion.
Well that was then and this is now.
My dc and I are having a great time without him. I say yes to everything - birthday parties, trips etc and we all thoroughly enjoy ourselves be causes he's not here to sabotage or spoil them. This year for dd1 birthday instead of him whining and upsetting me and me doing everything and being utterly exhausted/stressed, I hired a hall with another mum and our dc had a brilliant joint party together. I lived it as much as the kids did it was do liberating I will never forget it it fix cost a few £ but I saved up a bit abdctherecwas no one to bollick me about it. I didn't have to pray he would turn up because he wasn't invited.

I am doing all the work bringing up the dc but it seems like a lot less now I don't have a miserable sod sucking the fun out of it and making me feel resentful all the time.

Work is everything to DH. Yes it's a huge responsibility for him, I very much understand and appreciate that, but I've had enough.

One of the worst things he has ever done that makes me wonder exactly how much I mean to him was just before Christmas 3 years ago. We had very heavy snowfall one night and a power cut at about 10pm. It still wasnt on the next morning and everything is powered by electricity - heating, hot water, no gas supply here at all. He did go and get a generator from work but it blew up. I was 14 weeks pregnant at the time (and feeling awful), DD2 wasn't quite yet 2 and also had the other 2 DCs but he still fucked off out to his Christmas work do at about 3pm. And stayed out all night at a friends in the warm. Meanwhile we sat huddled together in one room with candles lit, duvets around us fucking freezing. No phone line, only a mobile with virtually no signal (unlike his which got a reasonable reception). Try keeping a toddler under 2 shut in one room for a day - couldnt let her have the run of the house as it was just too cold. The power eventually came back on at around midnight so it had been off for 26 hours.

Ok, so him being here wouldn't have made us any warmer/more comfortable but it would've been nice to have had the support. But no, getting pissed up and having a meal with his employees was more important. Something that could've been rearranged for another time - inconvenient yes but not impossible - and I'm certain given the circumstances no one would've held it against him.

DH often says I store things in my hard drive just to chuck back at him and I admit this one gets thrown back now and again but is it any wonder?

And yes, I have attended countless family gatherings/parties alone with the children as he 'has' to work.

Workaholicism is a fantastic excuse to be selfish and opt out of family life ain't it

Oh yes indeed it is. He opts out of pretty much everything - because he can.

We're supposed to be going to his mate's wedding next month. I won't know anyone there apart from the groom and DH. Have been dreading it as I know DH will get pissed and spend the whole time talking shop with the people he knows through work and ignoring me. I think I might just 'opt out' of this one :)

Exactly, AF.

But unless you're working down a coal mine seven days a week, there's no excuse for not helping out at home, cooking the odd meal, attending his own kids' birthday parties. It's just that he can't be arsed.

Grape, you said upthread that if you split up He'd be able to work all the hours he wanted and get to be a Disney dad every other weekend. I'd be left to deal with all the shit for the other 12 days of the fortnight.

Don't you see that there wouldn't be so much shit if he wasn't around?! Look at what Amarylis said above, about life after leaving H: 'I am doing all the work bringing up the dc but it seems like a lot less now I don't have a miserable sod sucking the fun out of it and making me feel resentful all the time.'

You have shedloads to be resentful about. But unless you start making some changes, you'll be posting all this again the same time next year.

Really, you're due a much happier life than this.

AF You're right, and nowhere is it more apparent than when on holiday. (I don't even want to go on holiday with my DH anymore)

Im worried you say that you cant leave because this would be ruining your childrens happy lives for your own reasons - dont you see that by staying you are exposing your chidlren to a warped view of relationships and seeing you slowly destroyed as an individual - as I said before - and increasing obviously the risk of them developing emotional problems themselves as adults?

The children are happy though. I accept that by letting their dad treat me with such little respect they too will learn that that is how to treat people/be treated. But, they don't see that I'm unhappy with their dad and if I was to announce to them tomorrow that we were separating it would be a massive shock that they wouldn't have seen coming.

My parents marriage was not a happy one and as a teenager I used to wish (and tell them) that they should just separate. It would've been a relief not to have to witness the awful rows anymore. It is not like that for my children, they are happier the way things are, of that I am certain.

Re the Disney dad etc - actually this is what's happening in my life BUT for one I get an actual break during contact time - reread - BREAK!!! As soon as I get old he's back on land I can book a hair appointment or make plans with friends. Contact is extending soon to an overnight during the week too - it's amazing!!!! I can actually do things I should have been able to go in marriage like go to the cinema or take an evening class or better still rejoin the Labour Party or sit in the trades council (suck it up Tory year boy!) or more to the point spend time with other like minded adults and feel like there's more to me than just being a mother.

Since stupid ex insisted on a contact order he's now duty bound to pull his weight with the dc. He has to entertain and feed them for longer blocks of time than he ever , ever managed before! To be fair he seems to manage ok but this would have never happened when I was there, ever.

I know 12 days alone with no help seems daunting but its not any less help than you get now! His excuses about cooking all weekend are pitiful - how long does it take to get something out of the freezer and bung on a pan of veg - 30 minutes? He is telling you you aren't even worth that. Exp did to me too - he also felt he shouldn't have to eat with us at the table do I spent 4 years cooking fabulous meals then feeling heartbroken because he wanted to eat them alone. I was a fucking mug and he knew it.
I daresay he'd manage to feed himself if you did split.....

I digressed a bit - something I didn't realise before I split was that the expectation disappears. I don't cook big meals every night now - tbf that's easier because I am feeding a 3 year old but I alternate between having an early tea with her and just feeding her something to get liking and having a meal on my own in peace later - suddenly half the work has evaporated. I'd be getting your big ds under control too and asking him to either help with meals or cook a meal a couple of times a week - he probably needs to learn as he will move out eventually. You can set him up with easy stuff - same goes for your 13 year old - I'm sure other people with big families have to do this. Otherwise out some boundaries in too - feed the little ones early and instruct the big ones to heat something by themselves when they want it. It's v lovely to eat as a family together and something I feel is important but you need to ditch some work somewhere x

Oh the thought of every other weekend sans children is a very tempting one, I must admit. It's the two weeks in between that scare me. On Saturday night DS had such a high temperature that he was shaking all over and his limbs were jerking. It was quite frightening, especially in the middle of the night when everything seems worse, but it felt better as there were two of us to deal with it. I know situations like that don't arise often but still...

Of course he'd manage to feed himself if we split - he's already told me he'd get his mum to cook for him!

It's just all so daunting. I very much doubt I'd be able to continue living in this house, the running costs are too high for a start. If I moved then the children would have to move schools - I couldn't afford to buy anywhere locally and very few houses come up for rent and if they do the rent is higher than our current mortgage. It would be a lot to put them through on top of their parents splitting.