'Leave the bastard!'

[Abitwobblynow]

Is the MN common refrain. In fact, it is presented as THE ONLY option, and MN gets very shirty (and some people can resort to nasty labelling) if the OP declines from doing that - straight away.

But is it the only option? Is it always the right thing to do, straight away? Here is Lundy Bancroft:

'There can sometimes be advantages to giving your partner your time so he can change.

You might use the time to construct a plan of exiting as safely as possible, with as many sound emotional and financial resources a s possible - this is especially important if your partner is violent or threatening, or has indicated that he will get financial revenge if you leave him.

With a dangerous partner, you might use the time to hope that he loses interest in you, so that he is the one to leave you, which can be safer.

Giving him your time might give you the sapce to become very clear about what is happening; going through repeated patterns can give you the opportunity to identify them, prepare yourself emotionally for them, and see the range of his ability.

Giving him your time can allow you to manage major life transitions, such as caring for infants or very small children, or dealing with a relative's sickness and death, with fewer disruptions than leaving might ential.

Giving him your time can allow you to articulate for yourself what exactly your 'deal breakers' are so you are more prepared to insist upon change, and to reinstate for yourself your standards and your clarity.

.., when safety is not an issue, can allow you to detach yourself from the intense care and responsibility for him, and reestablish yourself as a priority, even while in the relationship.
Giving him your time can assuage the voices in you that say 'what if', or 'I have to'... These voices can't be heard and these expectation met until you can meet them squarely and feel confident in your conclusions.

Giving him your time, if things are noticeably improving, can connect you to the love, hope and expansive feelings you felt when you first met.
... if things are noticeably imporiving, can afford you some of the acknowledgement and healing that you desire and deserve.

Giving him your time can help you feel certain of yourself as a person who has treid everything, who is committed to relationships, who believes in giving people a chance.
Giving him your time can give your children a chance to be in an intact family. (Of course, the costs can quickly turn too high for you, and for your children also, so be alert to when the costs start to outweigh the benefits).
Giving your time can spare you the pressures of having to go through finding a new partner and building a new life.

THE DECISION OF WHEN TO STOP WAITING FOR YOUR PARTNER IS A DIFFERENT DECISION FROM THE ONE ABOUT WHEN TO LEAVE HIM.

It is possible to leave your partner but remain attached to waiting for him. ... And just as you can leave but keep waiting, you can do the opposite: stay and move forward...

So I think here at MN we should honour the inherent wisdom of women who come here with destructive partners. Bottom line, I do believe they weigh up their options and they are doing what is best for them (whilst they gather strength, money, education, jobs - whatever the resources needed to move on).

simple facts is LEAVING THE BASTARD is not easy

not easy at all

if it was, people would leave them faster!

issues including

childcare
MONEY, how many can afford to run 2 houses? This is the biggie
family pressure
remnants iof love
fear

right read whole thread

GOOD LUCK WOBBLY
I think when your children are telling you to LTB, its time

and for reasons as stated above, its NOT easy

sending you strength, and happiness

I wish you happiness and joy wobbly ( fully fledged member of LTB brigade) he has never deserved you or the DC. It has always been about HIM.

'It's the trust, respect, pleasure in their company, which really is the bedrock of a solid relationship, ' - THIS, matilda. For me that is all I want from a relationship, and none of it I have.

It is the shock of finding out you are just a thing, interchangeable with another thing (the warm admiration of co-worker hero worshipping her boss) that was the most shocking and hard to really absorb. I mean, really absorb. That the person you married and who fathered your children, you do not know. That they got bored and then revealed themselves. Truly creepy!

When I saw the 'non-business' email that he crafted to junior co-worker OW in March and then sent to me as an afterthought (pictures of all the snow last winter), that was the final confirmation.

Thank you ALL so much for your warmth and support. It means a hell of a lot.

Wobbly it is frightening, disorientating and hard work BUT you will find yourself through it all...you won;t be trying to fit him into the "reasonable but difficult" box any more, you will have so much more energy and space to heal yourself.

You won't necessarily stop loving him immediately....or at least the idea of him that was embodied in the "nice guy" who came out to play every now and again, and why should you? Those feelings are a part of you and your DC.

I wish you every blessing and hope that you receive all the support that you kneed from those in your RL and here too.

Just checking that he actually sent you a copy of that email of his own free will?! If so, then that's breathtakingly cruel

No, Choc, it was a culmination of the previous two things:

that he refused two invitations to go to MC 'because there is nothing left to save'*
that he coolly confirmed he did not love me

made me look at his iPad.

It was in the trash, he forgot to delete it.

*same dynamic as fuckitybollocks. Don't love you etc, but won't go!

So are you going to petition for divorce and have you told the kids you're splitting up?

Could you leave and put a charge on the house till it's sold?

Cos I see that you've given up, but you haven't actually left yet have you?

Solicitors on Monday, Leavenheath.

Then, could the good people of MN help me work out how to get him to LEAVE?

What would you say?

Having armed myself with legal advice, the freezing of the accounts (to stop him spending), I fly into the other country and say what to him?

Hi Wobbly I hope you're feeling okay. Good luck from me too.

Ok, leave what?
If I understand it correctly you are now leaving in different countries?
Or is he living in the family home and you want to live there instead?

If your children are still at home you can ask to the right to live in the family home with them, but he may push you to go to court.

Or get with your children and convince him to leave.

You may need to think of some form of compensation for him to leave of his own accord, if you don't want to go to court.

I'm sure your solicitor will be able to help.

living in different countries! Doh!

Its a bit complicated. Owing to feelings of grandiosity, and his need to keep people at a distance, we live in more than one house and more than one continent.

No practical advice I'm afraid. When my shit marriage ended 12 years ago I didn't have mumsnet to advise and support and I'm sure I made things so much harder for myself and my children. Anyway, 12 years on and I recognise where you are at, and I promise you happiness in your future. I did a mini-yay at your latest news.

Be happy. And try to take the shortcut route to happiness. It's the hardest, bluntest advice (usually a la Any Fucker style - though widely available on mumsnet), the posts that are furthest from your comfort zone.... Those are your right path x

Wobbly, you've reached the end?! Oh, well done!

Just that. You will manage the rest in your own sweet way. Welcome to your life, in which you are at last the major player

I'd advise you what to do if I understood what was going on here.

So is he living on his own in another country?

And you live with the kids in another?

So where is it you want him to leave?

Why can't he stay there and you and the DCs stay where you are until the properties are divided up by the divorce? With an interim agreement that the house you live in is your home and he doesn't have right of entry without permission - and the same for 'his' house?

I'm not clear on whether you've even told him you're divorcing, or whether you've told the kids.

Can you clarify?

Really glad to hear this news

Well, SHL retained and D petition signed, and I have told children and friends. They are supportive and deeply disapproving of him. Wow, affairs are not seen as a cool and romantic thing at all.

But I feel so foolish.

I feel foolish for spending 4 years post BD to getting here, so that the original adultery has legally been condoned.
I feel foolish for having so much hope.
I feel foolish for being played.
I feel foolish for being such a chump (see chumplady.com for definition).
I feel foolish for believing that someone could really change, instead of manipulating to keep cake.

I generally feel like the worlds biggest foolish chump.

Big hugs to you Wobbly.

Wobbly, you are where you are.

In some ways the time was wasted, but in another way not.

Look at all the learning you gained along the way. So many if the women who leave immediately grieve and learn, but afterwards. You have done much of it, havnt you?

You were not to know who he is , you just have him a second chance, but are denying him a third.

Hats off to you.