A male thread I'm afraid

[mrguavafish]

Hello - a bit of relationship advice is what I'm after.

I am 33 years old, been married for 8 years - two children (sons) - can't get into that ds thing sorry (which seems to be code for sons I've worked out) - but my marriage is in trouble.

My wife is quick to anger and slow to forgive, getting annoyed for what I perceive as small reasons and then stays silent for weeks on end. I am into another cycle of this silent treatment now (week 5) and I think I've had enough. She doesn't speak to me during these periods, doesn't answer my calls or texts and when I am at home will pass messages to me through the children - 'tell your father this' e.t.c. The cause of this most recent flareup seems to be money issues - she keeps on parking in a private car parking area and gets fined £130 each time. I only mentioned it, I didn't even get angry - I don't tend to anyway.

I am at my wits end as to how to end these episodes. I even went away to climb Kilimanjaro in the intervening time (a trip booked long in advance) and I both went away, sent messages from abroad, and returned without her responding to my efforts to communicate. My approaches are friendly.

For the first time I am beginning to feel that there is no hope for the relationship, as these episodes are increasing in length each time. Do any of you have any advice?

I'm not having a go jingle btw, genuinely concerned that you appear stuck in some unhelpful thinking.

There is a victim here, one of us, he has kids. He needs help and support, so do his kids.

The best place is not with her by default. They need help and protection from behaviour as dysfunctional as that which she appears to be involving them in.

Please point out where people have said the op's wife should not have access to the children? People have simply said if she is abusive it is important he not feel pushed into her automatically having custody and him being the NRP just because he is the man. That he needs to make sure the children are protected from being involved in abuse or abused by their mother as much as possible.

Going to counselling with an abuser is never going to work and is highly inappropriate, it isn't "trying everything" it is just flogging a dead horse at the risk of becoming further embroiled in the abuse because couples counselling is about communicating, compromising and trying to stay together which are things you absolutely shouldn't be doing if there is abuse.

6 years of therapy, 3 times the Freedom Programme.

If OP went from a fabulous weekend together and then still went on with pursuing the divorce, I can quite see how his wife could lose it. That sounds a headfuck to me.

Your not the only one to have done the freedom program, I ended up in a refuge and have completed the freedom program and counselling and CBT. Just because you say you have experienced abuse does not make you the judge on what is and how serious it is, nor me for that matter but I do know I would never leave my dc with an abuser.

No op started taking legal advice and moving to separate and the wife made a short lasting play to be nice to him which soon changed to overt abuse and threats - attempt to regain control through manipulation, followed by escalation when he took steps to leave. Including her threatening him with having his children taken away and you are saying he might be an abuser why exactly?

We can't know whether he is or isn't. It is often the case that there is abuse on both sides of the relationship. I'm not saying this is the case here at all, I'm saying we just don't know. OP going through with the divorce after a fabulous weekend seems strange, but we can't know what's going on there. That's what professionals are for, otherwise why bother to train for n years when someone can post a few details on an internet forum and get a conclusive dx there and then.

I hope you remember to post that on threads begun by women springy(!)

No-one is conclusively "diagnosing" what people are saying is the described behaviour is abusive. And it is, and she involves the children in it.

Continuing with legal processes after "a nice weekend" is not strange at all, not at all. It is exceptionally common for an abuser to try to be nice in order to regain control before becoming aggressive when that doesn't have the desired effect.

So sorry to read of your dilemia with your difficult wife, I hope you can gain some help from these posts, I had an abusive relationship similar to yours along time ago , we divorced and life got better my DCs were very young and I thank goodness they did not have to be brought up in this oppressive atomsphere , even if it did mean raising them myself , they are now normal adults who have no memory of being stifled or ignored , I wish you all the very best and hope it all works out for you and your DCs.

This sounds a very difficult situation to live with, however, I can't see how you could justify leaving, and breaking up a family, without trying to fix it (I know you didn't suggest this but other posters have). I can imagine how difficult it must feel to risk causing another one of these episodes. I have also had some problems in my marriage (much better now), and I know the feeling of relief when things are good so you don't want to rock the boat.
I think you need to think about what you really want from life, and from that, gather enough courage to face this issue, asking her to speak to you about it and possibly suggesting some relationship counselling. It might be that you need to remove yourself temporarily from the household to get her to see that you are serious.
But also, I would start of gently with her, because from a female point of view, she sounds like she might be suffering bouts of depression and masking it with anger. Also, if she tells you all the reasons it's your fault, try to think of something to say which makes her feel heard, even if you don't accept her view point. As soon as you start arguing both of you will just retreat further into your positions, but you you do need to make it clear that the current situation is intolerable for you and detrimental to the kids.

mrguavafish having read the whole thread, the first thing I would say is do not let your wife read this thread

It will be used as a stick with which to beat you.

You are describing very controlling behaviour on your DW's behalf. Abusers are always charming to the outside world - that is how they isolate their victims. She will be making you feel as though it is YOU that has done something wrong, as if it were her, then everyone would be getting the same treatment. Singling you out for her silent treatment is incredibly deliberate and manipulative - it is abusive.

It's sole purpose is to cow you and to make you tow the line - and it's working. You can't/won't say what you need to say for fear of another episode. When she "comes out of it", you're so grateful that you won't dare say anything to rock the boat and upset the status quo.

You say you had a wonderful 4 months earlier this year. This is not uncommon, and is part of the abusive cycle. If all abusers were horrible all the time, then no-one would be with them!

Your children will absolutely be absorbing the atmosphere and mechanisms of your relationship and assimilating them into their own frames of acceptable behaviour. They are young, and are developing a sense of self and others, and this is what they will be learning about relationships: don't say or do anything to upset people you love/like as they won't talk to you and that will make you feel sad.

You need to separate your children from this abuse, because whether she is intentionally or unintentionally including them in the cycle, it IS having an effect on them.

Have a look at this blog - it has some useful ideas, advice and case studies, and I would be very surprised if you don't recognise your "D"W in them.

Sorry, OP, after my spectacular opening gambit of "having read the whole thread" I'm afraid I somehow missed the last and more recent update from you - so sorry...

However, I do just want to add that her turning nasty and threatening all sorts of horrible things is the final tactic now that she has realised that your change in attitude towards he behaviour is permanent. Playing nice was whilst she still thought she could go back to the silent treatment and you would just take it as you always have.

Playing nasty is the next step in terms of trying to regain control over you.

You said: "I actually wished she would go back to her silent ignoring phase."

That's exactly what she was hoping would happen - that you choose the lesser of two evils.

Please explore some counselling for yourself to ascertain why you felt, for so long, that you deserved to be treated like that. You will also need professional help to guide you through your separation and divorce, and to assist you in making it as easy on the children as possible. Your W sounds like the type of woman who will use the children to punish you for standing up for yourself and saying that you're not prepared to accept that awful way of life any longer, not for you and not for your children. I would also take legal advice re: the potential outcomes of all of this.

Please look after yourself and your DC in the run up to Christmas, and try to have a happy one. Wishing you all the best of a bright future.

Hey OP, I feel for you I really do, you need to stand up to her, this needs bringing to a head one way or another. you're children already are being affected, they learn how relationships work from you and your wife.

Best of luck.

op, I dont know i you are coming back, but it is really concerning to me that you have moved directly from (on the face of it) unreasonable behaviour and lack of communication about it on the part of your wife, to divorce and no looking back.

I wonder whether we actually have the full story here?

Her behaviour is completely unreasonable, but from your description I have no doubt that it isn't without cause (even though you may not know what causes it, and even though it may be an inappropriate reaction on the part of your wife).

Why isnt there an intermediate step here ie an attempt at reconciliation once your wife has realised the seriousness o your feelings about the situation? She would need to do lots of talking and self reflection (and perhaps you would too), but with the help a counsillor you may be able to work things out together, which is surely better for your children than a quick and acrimonious divorce?

He did not say he was divorcing her. He said he had "started things" with a lawyer and her abusive reaction has convinced him they are heading for divorce.

Why are people advising he should try counselling with someone who is behaving abusively? Also why should he try reconciliation?

Maybe there would have been a chance of reconciliation if she had accepted that she was wrong and sought counselling for herself instead of threatening to take his children away and verbally abusing him. Victims of abuse don't have to be bothered about the reasons for the abuser abusing.

He said -
he threatened legal action - she ignored it (and him)
he went ahead with legal action
she apologised
they had a fabulous w/e together
he decided to carry on with the legal action
she flipped out and threatened to take the kids away from him
posters say OP should go for full custody of kids because she is an abuser

there are too many holes in this story I'm afraid. My ex could very easily have painted me as the abuser when the opposite was the case.

I am concerned that OP hasn't been back.

Sorry for the delay in getting back- I didn't expect it to keep growing to be honest! Thanks for the advice. I think there is always blame from both sides when these things happen and after a lot (a huge amount really) of introspection I know I should have tried to lay down some kind of groundrules about her unacceptable shunning behaviour. But I didn't, as it was easier not to and I buried my head in the sand. Cowardice, basically. I had my head in the sand for years but had her behaviour not been deteriorating I probably would have just carried on and accepted the bad with the good. The good was steadily diminishing and the bad was worsening. I tried counselling with 'relate' but had to go by myself as she refused and later was quite mocking about it.

I felt very out of place there anyway to be honest with domestic violence literature everywhere and a poster of a woman with a black eye. The session ended early and I left not making another appointment.

When we had that last weekend of goodness I reasoned that I should this time make some kind of make or break effort to change things permanently. She said she was sorry but when I pressed her to say she wouldn't do it again she said 'I ignore you half the time anyway so what does it matter?' We had a long conversation and, unusually, I stuck to my guns and she went very wild.

I told my family shortly after and they were, surprisingly, very supportive and said they'd been wanting to say things for years but not felt brave enough to. Even my elderly grandmother said 'it's about time, it's been going on far too long as it is'. I guess my efforts to hide it were not fully successful.

I must admit that the decision I made does 'feel' right. I am very sad and very happy both at the same time.

I would never try and fight my wife using custody as a weapon and fully intend to have some kind of equal sharing thing, though I do need to look at the specifics of this and the law surrounding it. Or my lawyer.

Thanks for all your helpful comments!

What you write now confirms the fact that she is abusive, she knows it, and what's more she doesn't care who she hurts in the process.

PLEASE don't leave your children with her. Please go for residency, please help them live a life that the deserve, not endure.

It's not about 'fighting your wife' it's about safe guarding your children, protecting them from an individual so warped ALL your family can see it from miles off.

Please talk to Mankind, you've suffered extreme emotional abuse. So have your children.

You are projecting springy.

ok Offred

Glad you came back OP. I'm very sorry things have come to this but I sincerely wish you well in the future.

You are because you have changed the thread to make it fit with what has happened to you and you are identifying with the wife.

No I don't think so. My main concern was the baying that this woman lose her children when we don't know the full story - I was alarmed at how quickly the thread changed to that and was trying to slow the pace.

though I'm impressed that, according to you, I succeeded

Except that no-one did say she should lose her children until after you piped up. Saying he should try for custody or not let himself be sidelined just because he is a man is not the same as saying she should not have any access although if you are springydaffs then I've seen you argue with me about how your ex should not have any access to your children. The reason you are projecting is because you are not reading what has been written and instead shaping things to fit your paranoia that this man is like your ex. I don't think there is any basis to believe that.