A male thread I'm afraid

[mrguavafish]

Hello - a bit of relationship advice is what I'm after.

I am 33 years old, been married for 8 years - two children (sons) - can't get into that ds thing sorry (which seems to be code for sons I've worked out) - but my marriage is in trouble.

My wife is quick to anger and slow to forgive, getting annoyed for what I perceive as small reasons and then stays silent for weeks on end. I am into another cycle of this silent treatment now (week 5) and I think I've had enough. She doesn't speak to me during these periods, doesn't answer my calls or texts and when I am at home will pass messages to me through the children - 'tell your father this' e.t.c. The cause of this most recent flareup seems to be money issues - she keeps on parking in a private car parking area and gets fined £130 each time. I only mentioned it, I didn't even get angry - I don't tend to anyway.

I am at my wits end as to how to end these episodes. I even went away to climb Kilimanjaro in the intervening time (a trip booked long in advance) and I both went away, sent messages from abroad, and returned without her responding to my efforts to communicate. My approaches are friendly.

For the first time I am beginning to feel that there is no hope for the relationship, as these episodes are increasing in length each time. Do any of you have any advice?

[Jinglemyalanbells]

Sorry, what a crap situation. Haven't read other replies but have you tried writing to her?
It sounds weird but neither my husband or myself are great at confrontation. However, if something is upsetting us, we write to each other. It works for us and gets the ball rolling again.
Sulking seems such a waste of time and trying to talk to her doesn't seem to get you anywhere.
Also, I know you mentioned divorce but if you're not ready to go down that route, I'd be worried that once mentioned, she may go along with it thinking you want it and vice versa so no one benefits.

[Lueji]

Last weekend was such a lovely family weekend - we all talked just like old times, went out to a children's party and saw a DVD. I realised I had to stick to my guns though and see it through. As if a mist was lifting really. Then she became very communicative indeed, horribly so. Threatening to move far away with the kids and saying all sorts of horrible things really. I actually wished she would go back to her silent ignoring phase.

I don't understand what happened here unless it was a case of MrG realising that this was too little too late/the ship of the marriage had sailed/the souffle couldn't be reheated/the magic had gone.

That is the problem with abusive relationships.

You have a nice weekend, but it doesn't really erase what happened before.
And her response to him still wanting a divorce is very telling.
It's when things don't go their way that the abusers reveal themselves, not the good times.
And threatening to take the children away is not on.

[mathanxiety]

Two people can be perfectly nice but not able to get along well together. OTOH, two people can be very annoying without being abusive and unable to get along together or get past the annoyance -- the not getting along together bit involves inability or unwillingness to communicate, which means disregard for the fact that a person is sharing his or her life and space with another. Not a good foundation for a relationship what involves family life. No matter who is more annoying, failure to address a communication problem will scupper you every time but both parties need to be willing to work on this. Sometimes the difficulty lies more with one person than the other of course.

From the scant details offered I can see how MrG's reminders about the front door and telling his wife to bring back toys/second guessing her purchases, plus arguing with her about finances in her family (maybe interpreted as attacks on her family) might not go down well especially if that is ground that has been ploughed before. Nobody likes to have things brought up over and over again. But having said that I don't know if that has been the case. I am just surmising.

Last weekend was such a lovely family weekend - we all talked just like old times, went out to a children's party and saw a DVD. I realised I had to stick to my guns though and see it through. As if a mist was lifting really. Then she became very communicative indeed, horribly so. Threatening to move far away with the kids and saying all sorts of horrible things really. I actually wished she would go back to her silent ignoring phase.

I don't understand what happened here unless it was a case of MrG realising that this was too little too late/the ship of the marriage had sailed/the souffle couldn't be reheated/the magic had gone.

I know MrGuavafish you have felt out of place in Relate and somehow the idea of domestic violence against women is an element that makes you uncomfortable in that environment. However, there are other options besides Relate, and even different counselling environments within Relate.

If you are committed to your children's welfare, I urge you to take up any suggestion of a mediated agreement in your divorce rather than letting solicitors (1) rack up bills and take money therefore from what is available for your children, and (2) make it all more adversarial than it has to be. Ideally both divorcing parties are equally invested in the agreement wrt the children, custody, residence, time with each partner, how communication will be handled in the future (you can work out every little detail including time span within which communication must be answered or certain replies assumed. This takes care of stonewalling).

[amillionyears]

The op seems to be behaving very sensibly under trying circumstances. Having a wife that goes into weeks of sulking, not just with himself, but other family members who have upset her, must be very trying indeed.
He thinks he will try for joint custody?Again that may be sensible. I dont know enough to say. Yes, he may be abusive too, for all we know, but each and any one of us on MN could be accused of that, as we are strangers to each other.
I think, as his children get older, they may get fed up of their mums behaviour too.

[HisstletoeAndWhine]

We, as abuse victims, among all the other insults we have hurled at us, are that we are abusive ytoo. Usually when we get a little stronger, a little less cowed. It's boringly predictable, and totally without foundation.

OP does not appear to be abusive, and as we have no reason to doubt him, as women victims on here routinely are, so he must be heard, listened to and believed.

He needs our help, support and acceptance, his children need all the help they can get.

Enough of the BS victim blaming, if you doubt his veracity springy then go find a thread you believe in. If we're all wrong and you're right, whoopy doo for you, no skin off your nose or ours.

The tack you are taking is inappropriate. The children's welfare comes first, and if that is in a different home to the one they are in, or on a residency split in the OP's favour, so be it. it's not for us to judge, but only to remind the OP of his priorities. If it's bad enough for him to leave, then why should he leave his children behind.
The question has to be asked, and properly considered. This is the only time that the children can be helped, as once the ink is dried, he'll have little chance of changing things.

[Offred]

I'm not doing pm because it is important that those accusations are publicly challenged. MN won't delete things which aren't overtly victim blaming they expect it to be challenged on the thread. Seriously I'm pretty amazed no-one else seems to be batting an eye-lid at springy's "we don't know the full story, he might be abusive."

[SomethingProfound]

Well said Sunday.

Good luck OP you are doing the right thing, remaining in such an environment would not be healthy for you or your DC's.

[SundaysGirl]

Tell you what how about the bickering ones take it off-thread and to PM?

Just scrolled down almost nothing but snark on a thread where the OP clearly wants support.

Jeez.

OP - Good luck with it all, sounds like you have made a very painful but ultimately freeing choice.

[Offred]

Where is the bullying? I've said the same thing over and over because you keep accusing me (indirectly) of telling the op to take his wife's children away from her. Am I not allowed to challenge those words you put in my mouth or question the fact that you have accused the op of being abusive to his wife based on what? That he is a man?

[jingleallthespringy]

incoherent bullying?

[Offred]

I've got a headache so I may have been less than coherent but I'm not sure that lets you off answering springy, unless you don't have an answer.

[jingleallthespringy]

ok then, incoherent

[Offred]

And what exactly is the difference between being an abuser and having learned abusive behaviour because as I see it all people who behave abusively have learned it from somewhere, it isn't something the victim should be concerned with. Their primary concern should be protecting themselves and any children. Unless you are saying she has learned it from him in which case I hope by thinking about why saying it on say getting big's thread would be inappropriate you might see why it would be inappropriate to say that here. Inappropriate and victim blaming. I think as adults surely we all know that this is the Internet and any of it could be made up. That doesn't mean we call someone describing abusive behaviour an abuser.

[Offred]

I think it is clear I meant father btw. What exactly is the difference then if not that this is a man?

[Offred]

I'm not attacking I am disagreeing with your misinterpretation of what I said.

[jingleallthespringy]

I assumed your blatant attacking was because you were incoherent with rage. I stand corrected.

as for my own children not being allowed to see their children - erm, my children don't have children.

[SoleSource]

Leave the bitch. Now.

[Offred]

No, springy, I am neither incoherent with rage nor have I not read the thread, nor do I agree that you have supported the op all the way through.

I am simply pointing out that you have now launched in on the misplaced assumption that people saying he needs to protect dc from abusive behaviour, should not be sidelined because he is a man and should try for custody is the same as saying he should take away her children. You also completely ignored that she did threaten to take them away from him, accused him of possibly being an abuser because things aren't black and white and your abuser would have made out you were abusing him.

The poster that clarified they thought abusers shouldn't have contact with their children did so after your accusation and to be fair that is an argument you have made yourself about your own children not being allowed to see their children. The only difference I can see here is that you are female and he is male.

[jingleallthespringy]

Read the thread Offred. I have consistently supported the OP throughout. You seem to be incoherent with rage, which is specifically directed at me. I am flattered that you consider I have changed the course of the thread as I don't see that myself. I understand how abuse can polarise opinion but time will tell (ie a process followed) if the wife is an abuser and will continue to be an abuser, or has learned abusive behaviour which can be effectively addressed. If she is an abuser and continues, despite professional intervention, to involve her children in the abuse then it is my opinion that she should lose all access to her children save, perhaps, supervised access. Not straightforward to implement but my opinion nonetheless.

[JingleBellaTheGymnast]

OP, I'm another who grew up in an atmosphere of incredible tension. My father is now dead, and my mother admitted just last week that she thought many times that she had made a mistake marrying him. They were married for over 40 years.

The positives of my childhood are that I knew what I didn't want and am now with a man where the atmosphere in our house is relaxed, and we don't snipe at each other. We also never hold a grudge. The negatives are that I am not great at facing conflict, and have an eating disorder traceable back to my childhood.

Being apart will be the best thing for your children, and you will finally be able to relax.

[Offred]

Now you have successfully linked the idea of protecting the dc from abuse from her with him "taking away her kids" and being an abuser himself. Male victims of domestic violence have a really difficult time overcoming prejudices as it is I fail to see how your intervention helped in any way other than to further disempower the op.

[Offred]

And if you are springydaffs then it was you shouting me down about how abusers should never have access to their children last time. Does that only apply if the abuser is a man?

[Offred]

Except that no-one suggested that the wife should have her kids taken away. Not the op, not posters saying that he should seek custody. Having custody is not the same as her having no access and you accused him (albeit indirectly) of being an abuser.

[zippey]

No way should the OP's wife lose the kids - this is between OP and wife and the kids are a seperate matter. With her record she will probably use them as a pawn to try and hurt the OP, which is why I think the OP needs to be sensible and not try and pick fights with the wife. Keep her sweet and hopefully they can sort things out amicably.