A male thread I'm afraid

[mrguavafish]

Hello - a bit of relationship advice is what I'm after.

I am 33 years old, been married for 8 years - two children (sons) - can't get into that ds thing sorry (which seems to be code for sons I've worked out) - but my marriage is in trouble.

My wife is quick to anger and slow to forgive, getting annoyed for what I perceive as small reasons and then stays silent for weeks on end. I am into another cycle of this silent treatment now (week 5) and I think I've had enough. She doesn't speak to me during these periods, doesn't answer my calls or texts and when I am at home will pass messages to me through the children - 'tell your father this' e.t.c. The cause of this most recent flareup seems to be money issues - she keeps on parking in a private car parking area and gets fined £130 each time. I only mentioned it, I didn't even get angry - I don't tend to anyway.

I am at my wits end as to how to end these episodes. I even went away to climb Kilimanjaro in the intervening time (a trip booked long in advance) and I both went away, sent messages from abroad, and returned without her responding to my efforts to communicate. My approaches are friendly.

For the first time I am beginning to feel that there is no hope for the relationship, as these episodes are increasing in length each time. Do any of you have any advice?

[fluffyraggies]

I was seconding what LOIS last said btw :).

[Ipodmermaid]

I am going to get flamed here I guess. I am a sulker but wanted to share how it can come about, how you get stuck in it even though you hate yourself for doing it and makes all parties miserable. I don't want to hijack but thought a different perspective might help.

I learnt sulking from my father who was emotionally abusive to my mother and I and it has scarred all my relationships. For me though while I understand it is punishing to my partner, it is not my intention. It is a fear of confrontation (my father was absolutely terrifying and dissent not an option) and an inability to successfully negotiate dissent or compromise. I bottle dissatisfaction and resentment up until I can't contain it anymore.

There is an unresolved fight (often only tangentially related to what's actually bothering me) and I shut down. The initial silence is often for fear of saying something hurtful in anger. Then it just seems to go on and you can't find the words to build a bridge. I should add though, to LOIS' point, that sometimes it is about not being heard. Often the unresolved issue is the same really important unresolved issue and I feel that I have run out of ways of expressing how I feel and am running out of hope that there will be change no matter how often its promised. I am depressed and beyond tired. I am sure that I make my partner feel the same way but tbh he is as bad as me at communicating and sulks too - though not as badly. I desperately want to change my behaviour but don't know how.

Your DW's behaviour does sound more deliberate and calculated but could she just be stuck and feeling the same way? Sorry if this is not helpful.

[Opentooffers]

It may be relevant for us to understand if she is a SAHM or works also OP? Sometimes people have trouble changing roles in life. It's fine that some enjoy and desire to be full-time parents, but some end up as such and feel uncomfortable with it and feel dis-empowered like their opinions count for less -not that this is right.
The tricky thing with abusive people, is that they can be emotionally irrational at times and fairness doesn't come into it. It seems fair that you had your trip as she had hers, but that does not mean that she was happy about it happening in her mind. Tbh it can feel like banging your head against a brick wall when trying to get an abuser to 'see sence' so good luck with it all. Sounds like you will either get through to her by threatening divorce or become happier in the future by having to divorce, but you really ought not to put up with it indefinitely, your life is worth more than that and your children should not have to grow up in a negative atmosphere. They will notice as they get older, but will see it as normal which creates its own problems.

[Offred]

L01S - I get sucked into it all the time!

Guava - I'm glad you'd scouted MN out first!!!

[waltermittymissus]

Offred she hasn't been 'sucked in' to anything. She is an adult who was engaging in victim blaming on a thread about abuse.

Doesn't mumsnet have a We Believe You policy?

[Offred]

Actually Walter I think L01S was pretty clear in stating she was talking about herself in her situation and offering an alternative view which I think could have been a reasonable possibility. I think it is pretty clear it is not the case here BUT I don't think what she said was victim blaming because she wasn't saying "I don't believe you, she must be being squashed by you" she was just a little coloured by personal experience I think.

[waltermittymissus]

Yes she was most certainly coloured by her own experience. That doesn't mean she was 'sucked in' to anything or she should rise above it.

She said she couldn't drum up sympathy for him. Then said she never said she didn't say she didn't have sympathy for him?

She said she didn't blame him. Then said that her ex abused her and that's why she gave him the silent treatment?

There's a time and a place. She was challenged on views that aren't helpful to someone in an abusive relationship. And so she should be.

[Offred]

I can understand why you wouldn't be able to offer much sympathy if the accused on a thread is doing something you did in your own abuse story, it'd be a huge trigger. I don't agree what she posted was completely unhelpful as it allowed that perspective to be exposed as invalid just as asking about the trip allowed that to be squashed. I also think it is unfair to expect everyone, especially victims will be always able to personally give sympathy on every thread and I don't think it means they have nothing to offer the op. There were a couple of nasty uncalled for posts directed at her, that's what she got sucked in to.

[waltermittymissus]

Are you serious? Where are there any nasty posts directed at her?!

[Feckbox]

mrguava you are either a saint or an idiot ( I mean that kindly!!) to put up with being treated like that.

I wold have left her for the repeated parking in a fineable area , even without the sulks!

( I speak as someone in a difficult , unhappy relationship but it seems small fry compared to what you are enduring )

[Offred]

You told her she was choosing not to support the op when she had made it clear she had good reasons why she just wanted a bit of clarification because of her own abuse issues and then you were accusing her of victim blaming and haranguing her about being supportive and OMC said she was competing.

[hopespringy]

I can't agree with you harecare that this could be depression. It doesn't sound like it at all. It sounds like purposeful bullying to grind the OP down.

Are you thinking of mooting the separation/divorce idea in order to get her to listen to you OP? If so, I don't think that is the best way to go about it. Get yourself up together first - yes, counselling; which can take you a long way in a short time, especially at the beginning.

L01S has been getting an unreasonably bad time on here I think (and has responded with aplomb). Mermaid, that sounds like agony for you both. Counselling, please - why carry that shit around with you for the rest of your life? It's not pretty dealing with it but infinitely better than a life sentence.

and btw when I say 'counselling' I mean therapy, the long haul. Not 6 weeks with someone who has had very basic training and has never had a day of therapy themselves. Some things go too deep and you need an expert on the case.

[Omnishamble]

You & your wife have had big trips where you've left the DCs behind, but have you had any breaks where you've been together away from them?

[hopespringy]

and OP - it's not 'bordering on abuse' it is abuse. She may not know it is but it doesn't change that it is. She may have learnt it (like mermaid) but that doesn't change that it is abuse. We're all trying to get our needs met (therapy cliche alert) and some of us have learned shortcuts that are damaging - to other people, if not to us too. (though it's hard to have sympathy for her when she drags the kids into it too)

[waltermittymissus]

I'm hiding this thread because I'm getting too invested for want of a better word.

I feel for L01S and for what she's suffered but this was the wrong thread to bring it up on. If her experiences make her doubt someone who is suffering abuse then she shouldn't be on it.

Her experiences don't give her any special privileges. She SAID she was finding it difficult to have sympathy. It's right there for you to read. It's not my interpretation of what she said it IS what she said.

When you post on a thread where the OP is suffering EA through silent treatment, and then talk about how you used silent treatment as a defence against abuse, THAT is victim blaming. Thinly veiled but blaming all the same.

If she has had bad experiences she is perfectly entitled to talk about them but this was not the right place for it. And now people are feeling sorry for her? I honestly don't get it.

OP I wish you luck.

[hopespringy]

fair point walter.

[savemefromrickets]

My ex was a sulker, a puncher (of things and himself) and a depressive. In the end I just didn't have the energy or the inclination to try to put things right for him any more. I don't know how you cope.

I do know that it may rub off on you and the kids though. They will grow up thinking this behaviour is normal and acceptable. I got out before this could happen to my son. Unfortunately it had already rubbed off on me. Any anger I feel at incidents that crop up with new dp result in me wanting to hit things or sulking. I don't hit things and I try to snap out of the silent treatment before a couple of hours have passed. The problem with either of these reactions is that you feel like an idiot when you've calmed down, that's the bit I struggle with, having to admit I've over reacted and feel like an arse.

Perhaps you could consider standing up for yourself a bit more. I wish DP would but he's so laid back, and so grateful that I'm not totally psycho like his ex, that he doesn't tell me when I'm over reacting so my boundaries as to what's acceptable are getting blurred. By accepting her behaviour you are telling her it is acceptable but it isn't. Would you accept it of your kids?

[Timetoask]

Op, this cannot go on. Your home life must be awful. your wife sounds a little immature. She needs to accept that she has to change.

I wanted to give you another perspective. I think you wife needs CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) to work through her issues. I don't think you need couples therapy.

My DH, used to have terrible mad moods and temper. Not aggressive in anyway towards me, but the anger and moods were making me so unhappy. I am really thankful that he acknowledged he needed help, so he went to the GP, who gave him antidepressants. This really helped him feel better while he worked through several months of CBT to work through his issues.

He has been off ADS for 9 months now, everything is fine. We didn't need any couples therapy, it was DH that had to work himself out.

Good luck op, for the sake of your children I do hope things improve.

[AgathaFusty]

Your wife sounds very similar to my mother, who is now in her sixties and still acting in this unacceptable and abusive manner, and did so all through my childhood. No one ever told her it was abusive and not acceptable - my Dad was similar to you, I think, in that he was just relieved whenever the latest bout of being ignored was over. So was I. It didn't occur to me until fairly recently that I don't have to put up with it, and I'm in my forties now. As a result, I have very minimal contact with her, and by extension my Dad (although I would love to see more of my Dad, it is not possible on her terms). This could be the future for you and your children.

I would urge you to challenge her on this behaviour, and if she is unable or unwilling to change, to consider whether separating would be the best option for you and your dc.

Despite what you may think, this is a very damaging environment for your children to grow up in. What they are learning from her, and from your tiptoeing on eggshells reactions to her bad behaviour, will be potentially very damaging to them in the future when they come to form and maintain their own adult relationships. They are learning that this is normal, when in fact it is very, very far from normal.

Your wife can't actually be happy herself during these 'sulks', however, she has made the choice to act in this ridiculous way, and only she can make the decision to change her behaviour.

I wonder also if your "mild OCD" tendencies may result from the anxiety that you must be experiencing at having to live in this way. Perhaps you have other stress symptoms too?

[Offred]

Except Walter that she didn't say she doubted him, she said she didn't feel she had enough info having been a person who gives silent treatment and that being in response to being abused herself. I actually think it is a valid point to raise as others will surely have been thinking it and asking enabled it to be dealt with. It wasn't victim blaming in my opinion because she explained it was her situation and not the op's, which she felt she didn't have enough info to judge, that was making her ask. Victim blaming is not at all the same as asking for a bit more info.

[CailinDana]

My mother is a long-term sulker. I honestly think long-term sulkers enjoy it, I know my mother certainly does. It makes her feel powerful. She likes to see people squirm. Rather than actually relating to people and sorting out problems (which she is totally incapable of doing) she would rather "punish" the other person. The main aim for her is to feel in the right -by not actually discussing the problem she can convince herself she is the helpless victim and everyone else is against her. She is totally stuck in a victim mindset and takes no responsibility whatsoever for her actions.

She doesn't sulk with me anymore because at some point in my teens I decided I was just going to pretend not to notice she was sulking. So I just started talking to her. I would talk and talk and just make her look like a total idiot when she tried to ignore me. Eventually she would have to say something - constantly ignoring someone is incredibly hard if they persist in talking to you. Nowadays she doesn't even bother sulking because it's too much effort. She's the soul of good behaviour around me. She is still emotionally stunted and childish but she hides it around me which is all I want really.

You need to confront this OP. You have nothing to lose. If she is unwilling to talk about it then you have your answer. You tried to resolve it, and you're not going to put up with her behaviour any more so that's the end of it. That's a tough thing to face and it will take time. But sulking really wears you down over the years and damages you - you shouldn't put up with it any more and you shouldn't let your sons see it happening.

[HalloweenyHerrena]

My mother sulked throughout my childhood - strangely enough she doesn't do it now that we have left home. Seems she has realised that if she does act like this, we very probably won't want her around to see the grandchildren (whom she adores). So it is very, very obviously something that she used to do for control and she doesn't dare to do it now that her control is 'broken', as it were. Doesn't make me respect her very much but there you go.

She is (and has been for a very long time, IMO) depressed. My father didn't know how to handle it and so as a family we all just ignored her until she stopped her current sulking fit (2/3 days usually). It was harder on us kids because we couldn't challenge her behaviour without incurring furious outbursts; dad could've but chose not to for a quiet life. I didn't respect him much for that either, in retrospect.

You have my sympathy OP. My advice would be to either prepare to put up with this for the rest of your life (and very possibly have your children resent you for it) or to stand up and say you won't be treated like this anymore. Obviously I think option 2 is the way to go but ultimately it is up to you.

I personally think it's better to have kids who might occasionally miss their sulky bitch of a mum than to have kids who hate their mum as much as I hated mine. I don't hate her anymore but I certainly can't respect her.

I hope this helps :)

[Lottapianos]

'My advice would be to either prepare to put up with this for the rest of your life (and very possibly have your children resent you for it) or to stand up and say you won't be treated like this anymore'

I'm an adult but I honestly do resent my parents for staying together. They are utterly miserable and realising years ago that their relationship was a disaster, they have made me and my siblings responsible for their happiness. I am still so angry at both of them as well as sad for their wasted lives (working on these issues in therapy). It's a hell of a burden to bear OP.

I know that counselling has been much maligned on this thread but whatever you decide to do about your relationship, you could always access counselling or psychotherapy for yourself. Not because I think you need 'fixing' but it is a safe space for you to share your feelings and to start to learn more about what you need and want out of life. You sound very neglected emotionally. Never be afraid to take care of yourself. Your children need a happy,healthy parent. How are you feeling today?

[mrguavafish]

I guess the one thing that comes through overwhelmingly here is that children are not forgiving of parents who stay together 'for their sake'. I hadn't really figured that really. My sons seem amazingly unfazed by this conflict in the house and seem to cheerily pass me their mother's messages but I guess a time comes when these things take on a deeper meaning that they seem to at the time. I am not really prepared to put up with this 'for the rest of my life' if it is of no value to the children at the very least - I just figured it would be less damaging that the whole two houses and possibly new partners scenario for them. I will speak to my wife honestly about all this once I have processed it myself but these opinions from people who have seen the other side of this type of conflict are valuable. Are there any people who were happy their parents stayed together when they were not suited and sulky situations were taking place?

[Offred]

I'm not sure you should confuse happy with healthy. Children adjust to their environment so their current environment is teaching them normal relationship parameters, I suspect you have been entirely minimising the negative effects on you in order to not upset them and in some ways this isn't helpful. Feeling ok or happy or normal about something really horrible and abusive being done to one parent by the other over a period of time is really worrying. It shows they've been taught that this behaviour is just how you behave and not even noteworthy and it puts them at risk of ending up in a similar relationship when they are adults. Children are much less harmed by conflict where conflict is appropriate than they are the pretending everything is fine behaviour.