A male thread I'm afraid

[mrguavafish]

Hello - a bit of relationship advice is what I'm after.

I am 33 years old, been married for 8 years - two children (sons) - can't get into that ds thing sorry (which seems to be code for sons I've worked out) - but my marriage is in trouble.

My wife is quick to anger and slow to forgive, getting annoyed for what I perceive as small reasons and then stays silent for weeks on end. I am into another cycle of this silent treatment now (week 5) and I think I've had enough. She doesn't speak to me during these periods, doesn't answer my calls or texts and when I am at home will pass messages to me through the children - 'tell your father this' e.t.c. The cause of this most recent flareup seems to be money issues - she keeps on parking in a private car parking area and gets fined £130 each time. I only mentioned it, I didn't even get angry - I don't tend to anyway.

I am at my wits end as to how to end these episodes. I even went away to climb Kilimanjaro in the intervening time (a trip booked long in advance) and I both went away, sent messages from abroad, and returned without her responding to my efforts to communicate. My approaches are friendly.

For the first time I am beginning to feel that there is no hope for the relationship, as these episodes are increasing in length each time. Do any of you have any advice?

I'm sorry your going through this MrGuva, but she has proven that you are making the right decision. Focus on providing a safe,healthy environment in which your children can grow, and looking forward to a future where you are not continually ignored.

It is scary splitting up, and you will worry about the effect of the split on your children (i know i do) but you have to remember that growing up in an abusive environment is much worse than having separated parents.

Stay strong, good luck.

Agree with hisseltoeandwine.

It is very sad and a very sad time for it to happen too.

I think you have done very well in not caving into her attempt to manipulate you into staying under her control. Very well indeed. It is a big scary leap but I think she's well and truly proved that it isn't salvageable because it has become all about power and not about the relationship.

Do not let yourself be sidelined because you are the man.

Yes, how she relates to you doesn't automatically mean she will behave badly to the children but she has shown that she is willing to involve them in abusing you and you are more than justified, in fact I think you are required, to protect them as much as possible from her if she cannot keep them safe emotionally or physically because she is using them to get at you or trying to alienate them from you.

They need her but not so much that they need be abused by her.

I realised I had to stick to my guns though and see it through

What, see the divorce through? When she had apologised and asked to start over? That was the time to immediately initiate couples counselling, making it clear that the previous behaviour couldn't be repeated and this was the only way forward.

It seems to me that you have now taken the role of the one who is feeling powerful. I'm not pointing the finger - she has tortured you with silence, though, as a pp said, this is often learnt behaviour and abusers very often don't consciously realise what they are doing or, at least, the true effect of what they are doing (that it is abuse).

It just seems to me that you have leapt to the 'divorce' route when this is a fresh idea - you had previously been very passive (because of the abuse, no doubt). I'm wondering if you may have overshot the swinging back to a position of power. It is a very drastic step to take children away from a mother, please explore graded steps before you take this awful route. She is being abusive again (her modus operandi?) - and you are no doubt sick of it - but it could be that she could benefit from professional input. Please explore this first and try not to come out all guns blazing, setting off a holy war, before trying graded steps first. If you can't do it for her or you, please consider it for the kids. It doesn't have to be black and white - not yet, anyway.

Springy? Where has he said he would take the children away from her she threatened to move far away from him with them.

pp's are suggesting OP go for full residency of the kids.

I agree that this is a dire situation and your wife is abusive towards you in the way she relates. This is entirely unacceptable and can't continue. Give her the chance to address it, she may respond to professional input, which has to be a condition of you going forward.

And an abusive anything is not a mother OR a father. They should have ZERO contact with children, theirs or those of others.

Abusers abuse cos they can. They could look around them, realise everyone ELSE isn't behaving like a twat and change. Get help, protect those near to them. But they don't. They maim, harm and Fuck up everyone they come near.

Op ought to put the kids interests above everything and work out if if he'd be happy to watch his own children go through the hell he has, cos it's almost certain this creature would, since she's stuck them right slap bang in the middle of the abuse of her husband up to now. When he's gone, she'll need her fix somewhere. Those pesky kids will grow up to have opinions that differ to hers, and she will torture them, and their eventual families for all eternity.

Stonewalling is the worst possible form of psychological abuse that exists.

TBF if she's threatening to take dc away from their dad then he should go for full custody. Why is it so awful and drastic that he has full custody but not the other way round?

I was about to say similar InNeedOf if OP was a woman, who in their right mind would say to leave the kids with him?

She is a vile abuser, she is already harming them, they will go on to be abused by her, and by others, unless MrGuava helps them out of there.

They are future Stately Homers for sure. Mr Guava, don't worry about saving up for their education, they'll need the money for therapy more.

Save your children, they (and you) are worth it.

^^ yes that to!

'Him* being the other half of a partnership.

The only hope those kids have is if their dad helps them get away. And works to limit her poison in their lives.

Or she could go fix herself... Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen!

It doesn't have to be black/white, either/or. NOt yet, anyway.

It is interesting to see the wording of your post, hisstletoe re

"this creature"

"she'll need her fix somewhere. Those pesky kids will grow up to have opinions that differ to hers, and she will torture them, and their eventual families for all eternity"

NOthing like women to demonise another woman who doesn't come up to scratch...

I speak as a victim of hideous domestic abuse, so I'm not ignorant of the dynamics of abuse. I also speak as one who has divorced and there is no question that the kids suffer terribly from a divorce - very especially if there is a battle over custody.

I am suggesting there are a number of steps to take before reaching this drastic conclusion. There are many steps in between.

What about the damage that inflicts dc where they don't have one parent that wants them enough to fight for them?

If we switched the situation around and said An abusive man is threatening to move far away and have full custody of this womans dc I really doubt you'd be taking this stance jingle.

I would. I would recommend urgent counselling as a condition of moving forward.

I can't believe anyone would suggest counselling to a couple where there is abuse. Very inappropriate. Suggesting he go for custody is not suggesting she has no access.

Jingle it's classic DV 101 that couples counselling is NEVER advocated where DV is present.

Oh and ALL abuse is horrible. there is no more than, worse than. The OPs wife is however making her DC central to her power and manipulation of the family, involving them in her abuse (message passing) and now using them as pawns. Clearly she only has HER OWN interests at heart.

The other parent in this dynamic is abusive, and horribly so. Does that parent represent the best option to bring up children? Certainly not. Would you have handed your DC over to your Ex? Just like that? cos of his gender?

Would I? the fuck I would. Let the sorry twat take me to court (he won't).

NO abuser (male or female) should have residency. EVER.

Kids suffer in a straightforward, it's just not working anymore split, perhaps worse as there is less concrete reason for the relationship to fail. In abusive situations they are directly suffering every single day, 24 hours a day, even in their sleep. The suffering STOPS and the damage can be reversed WHEN THEY ARE TAKEN OUT OF THAT POISONOUS ATMOSPHERE.

When there is abuse, the BEST thing that can possibly happen for ALL victims (partners AND DC) is that the abuser is removed from their day to day.

Contact needs to be clearly managed, and limited. It needs to be explained clearly and in an age appropriate manner that there are good reasons why the access is restricted. Our children HAVE to grow up knowing that the way these people behave us unacceptable.

calling an abuser 'a creature' is mild. I could think of many other names.

Other parent being the OP's STBX. clearly

I went for counselling with my very abusive ex. I learnt the hard way that there was no way forward for us. HOwever, I tried it. We are not psychologists on here, have not conducted an in-depth and professional assessment. Things may not necessarily be cut and dried. It could be that OP is also abusive - we don't know, is the point I'm making. We don't know this true scenario at all. But in my book, it was a huge leap for OP to go from passive to instigating full-on divorce. What about the steps in between? There are many steps in between. To immediately pile in and suggest that 1. we know what is happening here 2. OP should go for full custody of the kids is absurd. Even SS follow procedures when a situation looks cut and dried.

jingle if you were in a very abusive relationship the counsellor would of told you to get the fuck out of the relationship why your ex sorted himself out. In fact it would of been very poor practise and s/he could of been struck off if the counselling carried on.

Oh and if someone abusive or not tried to move with my dc I would do anything I could to stop that, I don't see that as an over reaction I'd see that as making sure I was still in my dc's lives.

abusers don't necessarily come across as such. Charm itself, my husband (plus this was back in the day when they hadn't even heard of narcissism, not really). Abuse isn't cut and dried. In some ways it can be very complex, in some ways not. YOu need a professional to find out what is really going on, not leap in baying for a woman to lose her children.

To throw a bit more light on this, op, what made you go from a nice weekend, to going for divorce?

Op as pp's have said,there are lots of ways courts can prevent her taking your children far away as she has threatened. Make sure you have a good solicitor to see you through the divorce and custody arrangements. However on the face of it,even a bad one would do,your wife is clearly abusive. No court in the land would award her full custody unless she has a serious trump card. They might well award you full custody though.

Also jingle - divorce doesn't necessarily traumatise children. My parents split when I was 9 and subsequently divorced. Even at 9 I could see that it was better them being apart because there were no more arguments.

OP I will give you the advice I gave my sister when her emotionally abusive marriage ended - write everything down!
By that I mean keep a diary of her "silent treatment", what she says to you (e.g. taking the DCs far away), any other comments she may make that have any relevance to the situation. May also be worth noting in the diary the days when she IS being nice, as it can be shown that way that you aren't just recording a few exceptions & the rest of the time she's all sweetness & light.
Include actions you have taken e.g. when you visited your lawyer & when you told her you'd done so.
OK so this wouldn't stand up as legal proof of anything but it may help you confirm that she really is being as unreasonable as it seems, and may be taken into consideration when things finally get to the courts.

... So OK for a man to lose his, to someone who's abused him for years and is making threats?

She gets the kids cos she's got tits? No!

If you think men are all evil, and women don't abuse, then you need to look into counselling/professional input yourself. Until you do, you'll blame all men, forgive all women, just cos you're not fully integrated into the normal non-abusive world.

You are defending a woman because she is one. That's not only sexist, it's dangerous! Let's remind ourselves of the statistics. 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men experience abuse in their lifetimes. This is one of those times.

Did you do the freedom programme jingle? How many times? Did you get counselling, attend any groups?

If you cite irreconcilable behaviour Allergics suggestion of a diary will be very helpful because they do ask for examples of the behaviour,first,worst,last, to go in the petition.