A male thread I'm afraid

[mrguavafish]

Hello - a bit of relationship advice is what I'm after.

I am 33 years old, been married for 8 years - two children (sons) - can't get into that ds thing sorry (which seems to be code for sons I've worked out) - but my marriage is in trouble.

My wife is quick to anger and slow to forgive, getting annoyed for what I perceive as small reasons and then stays silent for weeks on end. I am into another cycle of this silent treatment now (week 5) and I think I've had enough. She doesn't speak to me during these periods, doesn't answer my calls or texts and when I am at home will pass messages to me through the children - 'tell your father this' e.t.c. The cause of this most recent flareup seems to be money issues - she keeps on parking in a private car parking area and gets fined £130 each time. I only mentioned it, I didn't even get angry - I don't tend to anyway.

I am at my wits end as to how to end these episodes. I even went away to climb Kilimanjaro in the intervening time (a trip booked long in advance) and I both went away, sent messages from abroad, and returned without her responding to my efforts to communicate. My approaches are friendly.

For the first time I am beginning to feel that there is no hope for the relationship, as these episodes are increasing in length each time. Do any of you have any advice?

On the face of it she sounds like an emotionally abusive, nasty person.

Be careful about going for any sort of counselling as a couple because abusers generally use those sessions to manipulate the person they are abusing.

She needs to snap out of this and fast, IF you want to stay with her. Frankly, from the sounds of it, she doesn't sound like she deserves you to stay. I know I wouldn't.

Y'know i think that's the saddest bit of all, the walking out of a room when you go in :(

It IS abuse.

It's sad to see a poster coming here looking for advice on what they perceive to be a common problem and get told/find out/realise that they are suffering actual abuse from their spouse.

It makes it worthwhile though, if they then heed the advice and end the abuse.

Let us know how you get on OP.

Dude,

She sounds bonkers. You have the patience of a saint to have put up with it for so long. Your kids WILL be absorbing, and will remember for the rest of their lives, the unhappy atmosphere between their mum and dad. I was a child with unhappy parents and will always remember the horrible arguments and sadness that filled the air.

The way I see it there are two options: Counselling, which you both have to want (if you want it, and she just "tags along" it wont work. At all). Or, leaving the relationship.

Wish you the best of luck!

Sorry, mate - that's close to Domestic Violence

Perhaps some of the following may help...

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Read everything you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and try to get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor. Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums or dads you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance)

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also find family law solicitors here:

www.lawsociety.org.uk/areasoflaw/view=areasoflawdetails.law?AREAOFLAW=Family%20law&AREAOFLAWID=36

Check your eligibility for Legal Aid here:

legalaidcalculator.justice.gov.uk/calculators/eligiCalc?execution=e1s1

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if any recommendations or feedback exists.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/Endingamarriageorcivilpartnership/Planningadivorce/DG_194401

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question. If you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

static.advicenow.org.uk/files/benefits-and-livingtogether-2010-11-1161.pdf

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you can, and take copies. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Child Maintenance Calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Is she working?
Do you share childcare?
Has she a history of abusing other people?

Just to reiterate: PLEASE do not fall into the trap of seeking counselling with an abuser. She WILL use it against you. I'm sure there are plenty of posters here who have fallen into that trap.

to respond to waltermittys post - I think if your options are

1. stay and put up with it, which everyone agrees is not on
2. seek counselling, both of you, to try and fix the problems or
3. just go

I'd say seeking counselling, with her, is the best option - BUT make sure you've got advice from the counsellor on your concerns that she may use it against you.

Otherwise you're stuck with option 3, which really isn't a nice process to go through for anyone, if there is a chance things can be fixed and she can stop acting like a spoilt child.

good luck, whatever you choose

Bantamrooster I'm not giving him warnings about joint counselling because I'm being overly dramatic. It's well documented, especially on here, that abusers can and do use these sessions to continue their abuse.

How is a therapist going to be able to stop her from using what's said in sessions against him at home? Even if he went back and 'told' on her, the damage would be done.

To be honest, you are putting your children through much worse by staying, than by leaving. You let them experience emotional abuse. Your children must be so unhappy. Dont think they are not noticing your wifes moods, and my bet is that they will be scared she will do it to them too.

2 sides to everything. She sounds very passive-aggressive in that she seems incapable of voicing when she is not happy about the things that you do, so silently holds the grudge against you.
I'd say it's no coincidence that the 5 weeks of silence was around your planned trip to Kilimanjaro, she was obviously not happy about you going from the start, as many people would not be (especially if not invited to come along ;-) ). Did you fully discuss the trip or did you assume it would be ok for you to go? As you have noticed, the silent treatment gets sparked by something more minor sometimes, but it's not about the sparking issue, it's deeper than that.
I wonder if she has been like this more since the DC's came along, perhaps she wants you to realise her worth so withdraws in an attempt to make you appreciate the effort she puts into the family. Does she work? Did she before the DC's came along?
I think the best time to get to the cause of the silent treatment is when she is being silent. You may have to be prepared to take it as far as temporarily moving out to get a reaction from her and make her see that dealing with her annoyance in this way is destructive to the relationship. Not good that she would not go to counselling with you. I think you will have to stick to your guns and play some hardball to get her to open up more.

I read somewhere that people do silent treatment when their voice is not being heard. And in my case that was true. I used to suggest to my x that we should have a joint account, that I should go back to work, that he should do do half of the childcare, that he should help around the house.... but in my case he always had a reason why none of that would work. He earned a lot of money and I had no earning potential. So I ended up feeling powerless and I literally had no voice. So subconsciously or not, I punished him by refusing to be the cheerful easy going witty person he got to know first. I was damned if I was going to 'give' him the real me, the best me when he wasn't compromising at all.

Eventually I left him. Because he didn't hear my voice and he didn't 'hear' my silences either. I hope that helps. It might. Because I used to do the silence thing to my x and I know it doesn't sound mature, or reasonable, or like an effective form of communication! far from it. I'm a good communicator, and YET I did it. ;-/

read the thread guys. OP has already said the trip was planned in advance (and that his wife also had a long haul trip away while he looked after the kids).

I really wouldn't say she has problems voicing her opinions. She is 'voicing her opinions' extremely succinctly going 5 weeks . a couple of days, 5 days even (at an absolute push) may suggest she can't express how she feels. but 5 weeks??? that is just torture. bullying. abuse.

How are you OP?

I think you are very brave to post here, and hope that the advice you've been given here, and the perspectives you've been given, will help you to find a route away from this abusive behaviour from your wife.

You really don't have to live like this!

As I said upthread, I lived in a similar marriage for far too long. Reading your thread has made me feel very uneasy (past memories), and then hugely relieved to remember that I never, ever have to put with this vile treatment from anyone ever again - bliss [hgrin] - you don't either.

There will be 2 sides to everything but her way of dealing with it is utterly impossible to live with. I can only think of 2 choices -counselling or leave.
Has she a lifetime pattern of sulking? Did her parents let her get away with it?

ps, I have never given my children the silent treatment, so that is certainly not an inevitability.

Sounds like a bullying way to stop you disagreeing with her, or bringing up what she dosent want to hear.

I couldn't live like that op.

So you were punishing him L01S. Sounds like you had a legitimate gripe, and I understand that you felt you had 'no voice', but from your description it sounds like you were punishing him.

it's not sulking. sulking is momentary. this is abuse. 5 weeks is abuse.

why are paying the parking fine unless it is from the council you dont have to pay

www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

To be honest with you OP, I don't think counselling will work, I really don't. If your wife is not talking to you about what is bothering her with you, her husband, I don't see that she will suddenly wax lyrical with a counsellor, irrespective of the ultimatum or encouragement given.

I think that is may take you some time, (a bit of meandering) you may need to give serious consideration to leaving this marriage/relationship. Once you realise that you cannot go on living like this, it is just a matter of time. Your wife will not change, on some level what she is doing is meeting some need of hers otherwise she would not continue to act in this way.

Sorry

Seriously, I don't want to derail the thread by playing the gender card but those of you who are seeming to take the wife's side should ask yourselves if your advice would honestly be the same if OP were a woman.

To me, this is clearly EA and I get a bit angry at some of the victim blaming!

I was punishing him, yes, but at any point if he'd said, "ok, I have been unreasonable, I will support you going back to work and we should have a joint bank account" then I would have felt so relieved. But I just felt so powerless, trapped and angry. I had already spent months, years, hours trying to verablise it all. I was weary. And I didn't sulk with my parents.

I don't think counselling is a good idea either. People try to hard to hold marriages together imo. Two people should only stay together if they're making each other happy and if they both want to be together. NOT the case here. It's the OP's prerogative to leave and I wish him better luck finding somebody right for him the next time round.

ps, he KNEW why i was sulking though. he couldn't possibly have been in any doubt. he'd rather have put up with my silent sulking than compromised though.

I don't want to hi-jack OPs thread. Whether or NOT there is an issue that he's not prepared to compromise on, he is entitled to end a marriage.

5 weeks isn't just sulking or holding a grudge. It is not normal behaviour. I could not live like that. It's hateful.

I think you need to act. Ultimatum time. If she won't talk leave her a letter.

L01S I think your posts come across as a little accusatory tbh.

Whether or NOT there is an issue that he's not prepared to compromise on

There has been nothing in the OP or subsequent posts that could make anyone think he's not prepared to compromise! [hconfused]

No, but he hasn't confirmed to us that there is nothing about which he is not prepared to compromise has he?!

I'm not taking a swipe at him though. She's clearly not happy in the marriage if she's going away for five weeks, and he's not happy either. So I advise them to split up. But the mumsnet advice will be counselling counselling counselling. So much counselling is advised on mumsnet when the relationships are all dead and buried!