Shocked by dh's angry violent outburst... What to do?

[itreallyhappened]

Happily married to dh for 4 years with a 2yo ds.

Dh is the picture perfect family man but he does have the occasional angry outburst where he says I wind him up and Push his buttons. He's never been violent but I have been scared of his angry outbursts.

Last night we were at a party and both had too much to drink. We were arguing about which way to walk home and I was saying I knew the shortest way, dh just lost it with me. Shouting about how I always think I'm right etc and before I knew it he had his hands round my neck and was shaking me. Obviously I got him off and then we went home. I told him last night that it was over and he was just saying he'd get our son as he works less than me so can be there for him more than me.

This morning he couldn't even remember it but was deeply deeply apologetic. Said he had no excuse, doesn't feel angry in general and he said his only defence is his horrible drunkenness but he knows it's not n excuse. He doesn't drink much but has told me he will quit drink. He also said he'd go to anger management, basically anything I want . I believe he is remorseful.

This is totally out of character for him and I am still quite shocked. Whilst he does have a temper, his outbursts are rare and haven't ever resulted in violence.

Ds and I have come to my mums today. Dh is at our house. I wish this hadn't happened. I want to give him a second chance as I do believe that it was a one off but in the back of my mind i don't know if we can go back from this. It's been a hard year for us both health wise, I was made redundant, we moved house, we lost a pregnancy and there has been a lot of pressure on us but I thought we were in a good place.

I don't really know why I am writing this - am I a total mug if I give him another chance?

I used to take anti psychotics too, and have spent many years on ADs, because of my serious mental health condition.

If I strangled someone, even if my mental health condition was the reason for this, I would not expect it to be used as an excuse to normalise what I had done.

If it is mental health related, then it needs to be dealt with, not excused.

The doctor will have to be going some to diagnose an episode the patient can't remember whilst drunk as a psychotic episode.

I think broadly most of us are counselling caution to the OP. The episode needs to be made real - at least within his medical record, preferably within hers as well and ideally with the police. It must not be possible to deny later that this terrible thing occurred.

The DH appears to be genuinely remorseful despite his previous history of blaming the OP. But given it might be because of the medication, is it really reasonable to assume it won't lead to a repeat as long as he doesn't drink? I don't think I'd take that short-term risk if I were the OP or the DH.

itreallyhappened, you seem firmly of the belief that it will be your fault if the marriage fails now. I think you may still be in shock. Take some time to process this before you make any decisions, except those which might ensure your short-term safety. See what the GP has to say tomorrow.

"Some medications that may induce psychotic symptoms include anesthetics and analgesics, anticholinergic agents, anticonvulsants, antihistamines, antihypertensive and cardiovascular medications, antimicrobial medications, antiparkinsonian medications, chemotherapeutic agents, corticosteroids, gastrointestinal medications, muscle relaxants, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications, other over-the-counter medications, antidepressant medications, and disulfiram."

"Following are criteria necessary for diagnosis of a substance-induced psychotic disorder as listed in the DSMIV-TR :

"Presence of prominent hallucinations or delusions.
Hallucinations and/or delusions develop during, or within one month of, intoxication or withdrawal from a substance or medication known to cause psychotic symptoms.
Psychotic symptoms are not actually part of another psychotic disorder (such as schizophrenia , schizophreniform disorder , schizoaffective disorder ) that is not substance induced. For instance, if the psychotic symptoms began prior to substance or medication use, then another psychotic disorder is likely.
Psychotic symptoms do not only occur during delirium."

A delusion is a strongly-held irrational belief, which appears to the patient as fact.

www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Substance-induced-psychotic-disorder.html

"I take anti psychotics because I have had psychotic episodes, when you have those your personality changes from that to a monsters, you behave in such a way your own mother would not recognise you."

When my mum had psychotic episodes, I still recognized her as my mum. Only, she did not recognize me as her daughter, or my sons as her grandchildren. She thought they were devils. She was scared of them. Even when the episode was over, she remembered, and rationalized it as them dressing up to scare her.

I am not so sure that your dh had a psychotic episode. I am leaning towards him being angry, and drunk, and did what he felt like doing at the time.

The op is not telling a story of her husband thinking he was Don Quixote battling windmills/giants. But he was angry with her, and strangled her.

Crossposted with your last, trib. I'm with you on that.

If some agent causes unpredictably dangerous behaviour, safety precautions must be taken. It doesn't matter whether the behaviour is intentional. I'm sticking with my example of sleep disorders but you could also say you wouldn't let a rabid pet roam the house, however sweet it is when healthy.

If your appraisal of his personality is correct, OP, he must be deeply shocked. Most women get a sharp introduction to the fact that our body chemistry can make our character change, thanks to our frequent hormonal changes and to childbirth. The changes in men tend to be more gradual unless an illness prompts sudden alteration. Consequently, they assume that "who" they are is fixed. I remember my horror when I had my first episode of real PMT; he would be feeling something like that. (I didn't physically assault anyone but, my god, I did a lot of damage.)

When's the doctor? Is it tomorrow? Good luck.

Quint, thinking he was Don Quixote battling windmills/giants would be an hallucination. A delusion is different.

I'm not arguing for one cause over the other. I just think that behavioural effects of medication can't be ruled out, especially when the medication has recently been changed.

if behavioural effects of medication were the problem, he would be strangling everybody, right ?

not just his wife, when she "winds him up"

there are enough stressors in modern life for there to be no explanation for a single person to be targeted for such a high level of violence, other than he did it because he wanted to

perhaps his social inhibitions were lowered because of meds, but why didn't he strangle the bus driver, or his boss, or his mate in the pub ?

I can't believeI'm back again. Honestly for all I know this man could be at the start of a terrible reign of violence. However, I was thinking about this last night and remembered years ago that dh (then dp) had antibiotics -dr told him to avoid alcohol which he did but on the same day he took the last one we went out that night and got pissed-we were young and stupid. Dh has never been aggressive/got in fights/never raises his voice if we disagree-he's a mild mannered academic. That night he decided the dj was a fake with a soundtrack (!)and we had to run off after he shoved the record decks off the table onto the floor. It was so bizarre and he's never done anything similar since.
I appreciate strangling is different to that, but then we had stress free lives when that happened.
I just think the dr needs to be asked before he's condemmed.

Steroid psychosis is quite common and ranges from mild anxiety depression and insomnia to personality change shouting and anger.
Is it Rh Arthritis or IBD?
I think it could be from the prednisolone. Unfortunately, equally it might not be. For some people steroids really do upset their mental equilibrium and behaviour.

I always have, and always will, condemn people who strangle others. Especially more so if they already have a history of frightening their OH with angry outbursts.

Please don't listen to teabagtights.

Both men who hit me did it twice. It is rarely a one off when it is as serious as this. One of the men couldn't believe I had the cheek to leave him .

This must be so hard and with so many of us saying get him out you must feel like it is us against you and him and you need to stand with him. No, it is us against him and for you and your son.

If it is a genuine reaction to the drugs why is he not been to the doctors already telling him everything?

Honestly, all this talk about medication is a complete red herring. I find it hard to believe there are people on this website who are trying to find excuses for this despicable and dangerous assault.

Can I remind the likes of teabag and others that this OP said:

Dh is the picture perfect family man but he does have the occasional angry outburst where he says I wind him up and Push his buttons. He's never been violent but I have been scared of his angry outbursts.

So prior to this episode he was the "perfect family man" but she has "been scared of his angry outbursts" before.

This is a classic description of abusive behaviour which is escalating. I know OP has made her decision but I think it's unreal to be making excuses for this man's behaviour. It's got nothing to do with medication. It's got everything to do with violence against women.

I hope OP doesn't become a horrifying front page story, and another domestic violence statistic - like so many others who tolerate far too much violence "for the sake of..." what exactly?

Keeping a family together, so that they can all endure the unpredictability of angry and violent outbursts together.

I despair, I really do.

Can you not see how far fetched it is to say that prednisone caused psychosis temporarily and that that psychosis caused him to strangle his wife one time but has not caused any other symptoms of psychosis?

As far as random behaviour when drinking on antibiotics goes it only carries a risk of exacerbating the side effects. It doesn't make you do things you would never do.

Even if prednisone made you angry, you are a person who strangled his wife when angry not a person who prednisone made strangle his wife.

The doctor is likely to be non-committal over it.

here is some info about prednisone psychosis

The only reason that I've ever been told not to drink while on antibiotics is because the alcohol stops or reduces the affect of the drug, not because it causes any reaction.

The medication, as a PP said, is a red herring. Because, actually, violence is NOT out of character for him. He may never have actually progressed to physical violence before but he's been angry, intimidating and she's been scared.

I'd rather be over-cautious than to see her hospitalised. It's NEVER once or very, very rarely.

OP I'm sure this is a lot to take. If you decide to stay, none of us will be able to change your mind. But please remember, if you stay, you'll be staying for YOU. Not your son.

I have prescribed steroids a lot in my life, seen steroid psychosis once, the reaction does not focus on a single individual, if aggressive then the aggression is to everyone and everything, and the psychosis does not, not last for a few minutes...days to weeks even if the meds. are stopped immediately...if he wasn't psychotic the morning after he wasn't psychotic the night before.

increased irritability on steroids is common....but the person is irritable and in full control...ie strangling someone because you are irritable would still be his fault whether the irritability was due to stress or steroids

can we put the medication argument to rest?

Agree with those saying that the meds are a red herring, though it will be interesting to hear what the gp says.
I still think its the trigger you have to think about OP, that you knew a shorter way home. Have other rows in the past been in situations where 'you knew better'? Because then the only way to avoid rows in future is to pretend you don't know better than him, or refrain from venturing your opinion. Control.

This thread disturbs me greatly. My father was abusive to my mother all through their marriage.

There was always an excuse for every time it happened. I heard medication blamed, grief blamed, job stress blamed, the kids blamed, my mothers attitude blamed and shit loads of other excuses from both of them.
What it boiled down to was that my father was an abusive shit who go off on controlling his wife and children by whatever means he damn well felt like up to and including violence and rape.
I don't know what he was like after the first incident as that was before I was born, but I do remember the flowers and gifts. I remember all the begging for forgiveness and promises that it wouldnt happen again.

OP It sounds like you have committed to staying with your husband and if that is the case I would ask you to very carefully consider the effect this will have on your DS and any future children you may have. It may well be the one and only time this ever happens and I truly hope that is the case.
But I would ask you to go to a mirror and look into it and tell the woman looking back at you that you are worth so much more than this. Also tell that reflected woman that if there is even a slight hint of any aggression to leave immediately. Take copies of everything finacial and store them with a member of your family/close friend to make sure you have access to everything.

Above all listen to your instincts and stay safe.

LordLurkin your post gave me chills.

I'm truly sorry for what your family went through :(

I don't normally disclose that much but I wanted the OP to be fully aware of the direction it could go.

My childhood was a living hell. But I am still here and old very different views to my father about nearly everything.

ditto lurkin

cept I stupidly repeated the pattern, and when I realised and went to my family for help to get out of the marriage was told "go to counselling and sort it out" and "it's passion" etc. What a load of bull.

Told myself every excuse to stay too. Had no idea how much easier it would be on my own with the kids, safe.

Even when at knifepoint 7mo pregnant and in front of my 5yo I still was asking myself what I had done to cause the situation, what I had done to "push his buttons". Took me a good couple of years to realise how brainwashed I was and am now wise enough to know it could happen again with someone else but I won't be sticking around to wait and see what comes next!

Wonder what the GP will say, noncommittal I bet.

OP's post scared me by her description of the relationship as much as the actual strangling. What up if her DC was the one being throttled by OH?

Cynic much, survivor - definately but not a hater - don't get me wrong, just have eyes open now; nice guys don't strangle people. And there is no such thing as a 'perfect' husband - red flag right there.

good luck to her.

Hi everyone, thanks for the honest and thought provoking messages. A small minority of posts have a really smug, nasty undertone which seems really unnecessary from people trying to 'support' but mostly whether you agree with me or not I find the input really really helpful so thank you so much for taking the time. It means a lot.

I am so sad to hear that so many of you have been through repeated abuse and I appreciate your bravery in using your tales to caution me.

lordlurkin made a good point about listening to my instinct above all and that is what I am doing here. And why I am staying. I dont feel I have to stay and I am the only one with a choice here now so what I choose does affect my family and I am choosing to stay for all of us, because I believe it won't happen again. What he did was a terrible terrible thing but it's happened now and all I can do is choose how to deal with it.

We couldn't get an evening appt to see the doctor together (they were all allocated despite them telling us we could have one). Dh told receptionist what had happened in the hope that someone could squeeze us in. All they could manage was a phone call to dh. Doc said that the meds could have been responsible (they recently ramped up his dosage) and that he shouldn't be drinking on them because drinking exacerbates the side effects. He asked this when he was prescribed them and they said drinking was fine. Still, no-one should drink to the excess we did at the party.
Doc also said that he should keep taking the course as he only has one week left and stopping suddenly can cause problems. Doc gave him a phone number for counselling but dh said he didn't really have any time to talk so he is going to ring up tomorrow and try and get another appointment.

We have talked a lot about it. We talked about him moving out for a while and we talked about what caused it, what could have happened and many other factors. I have also talked in depth with my mum.

I have made the decision to let him stay. That is what I want and what I think is best for us all. I could detail many conversations we've had to try and help explain why I've made my choices but I'm flipping hungry right now! Suffice to say I have listened to ALL this posts and really taken everything on board and made my choice in the context of the past, the present, people's advice and my knowledge of dh and the instinct I have. I will be keeping an extra watch over his attitude and behaviours and he has a lot of ground to make up but I want to give him the chance to show me he is a good person who did a shit shit thing, which is what I believe is the truth.

Thank you so much everyone who took the time to post

I don't see any smug undertones. Where?

Good luck. I am worried you will need it.