Shocked by dh's angry violent outburst... What to do?

[itreallyhappened]

Happily married to dh for 4 years with a 2yo ds.

Dh is the picture perfect family man but he does have the occasional angry outburst where he says I wind him up and Push his buttons. He's never been violent but I have been scared of his angry outbursts.

Last night we were at a party and both had too much to drink. We were arguing about which way to walk home and I was saying I knew the shortest way, dh just lost it with me. Shouting about how I always think I'm right etc and before I knew it he had his hands round my neck and was shaking me. Obviously I got him off and then we went home. I told him last night that it was over and he was just saying he'd get our son as he works less than me so can be there for him more than me.

This morning he couldn't even remember it but was deeply deeply apologetic. Said he had no excuse, doesn't feel angry in general and he said his only defence is his horrible drunkenness but he knows it's not n excuse. He doesn't drink much but has told me he will quit drink. He also said he'd go to anger management, basically anything I want . I believe he is remorseful.

This is totally out of character for him and I am still quite shocked. Whilst he does have a temper, his outbursts are rare and haven't ever resulted in violence.

Ds and I have come to my mums today. Dh is at our house. I wish this hadn't happened. I want to give him a second chance as I do believe that it was a one off but in the back of my mind i don't know if we can go back from this. It's been a hard year for us both health wise, I was made redundant, we moved house, we lost a pregnancy and there has been a lot of pressure on us but I thought we were in a good place.

I don't really know why I am writing this - am I a total mug if I give him another chance?

I think you sound pretty savvy op, not committing to supporting him and expecting he do it alone is absolutely right I think.

I do think there seems to be a bit of worrying stuff in what you say about him; "he is lovely except when he.." And you seem to see the things as isolated incidents which are out of character but to me it does seem like a pattern and what's worse than that, an escalation. It is much easier for us as strangers though, I think you are right to not commit to anything and give real consideration to the whole situation, I would just like you to be very mindful that what he did was not pushing, hitting but strangling which really, really frightens me.

I think you are though aren't you? It isn't "ordinary" dv (whatever that is, and i dont mean to minimise dv) it is something different when there is strangling IYSWIM, something much more dangerous.

OP, I am so sorry this has happened to you and so sad for your pregnancy loss.
I would echo what a previous poster said: if your DH is genuinely apologetic and scared of what he did, and if he is worried about his meds/acting out of character, then he would move out for a time until he has his issues sorted, and to give you space.
I think far more than anger management etc, this move would show genuine remorse.
If I was frightened of my temper, or feeling volatile in any way, scared I would be violent etc, I would get away from the people I loved until I had it sorted in my mind and I had accessed help and guidance. I wouldn't take any risks with the people dearest to me.
It is your relationship and you know best. However, I would argue that you may have gone back too soon and it also sounds to me like your mum could have given you firmer support.
I would never in a million years let my daughter return to a house with a man who had put his hands on her neck- would you? Think about what you would say to someone else in your place.
Please make sure you get this on your medical records and on a police file for your own security.
Take care

PS OP please do not worry about your dh's threat that he would get your son- get this incident recorded by your GP and by the police.

Are you really sure he didn't remember? I have never in my life been so drunk that I could not remember what happened.

Finally, look at the trigger. The trigger was you 'always think you're right' That sounds controlling/ a power thing to me. Have the outbursts in the past been about similar situations, where 'you know best'?

OP, I really see contradictions in your OP and then in the subsequent posts. These contradictions indicate to me that you are in a state of denial/normalisation about an unacceptable situation.

In the OP, you say: "he does have the occasional angry outburst where he says I wind him up" and "He's never been violent but I have been scared of his angry outbursts."

Then in following posts you say several times that his attempting to strangle you is "out of character".

As I see it, this event is NOT out of character: it is the logical development for a man who keeps you check with his displays of anger. And that is a form of manipulation and control, OP. It went further the other night because you weren't being sufficiently compliant, and because all the previous outbursts of "anger" have led up to this. Escalation is classic: every barrier, once crossed, can be transgressed again, and the levels of manipulation, control and violence ratcheted up further.

You are in danger: in danger of further violence, or in danger of spending the rest of your life (if you stay with him) quashing yourself and walking on eggshells in order not to risk a further violent incident. Self-abnegation is no way to live, love.

All of what you all say is valid. Today my head is fucked. I can't believe I am in this place :(

I think you should log it with the police. In case it happens again.
Do you have any marks? Difficulty swallowing? Do you need to be seen by a doctor?

Additionally, does he need to see a doctor, in case the psychotic side effect of the medication has kicked in? With him losing control and memory of the event, will he be able to stop himself if he has another "psychotic episode" where he tries to kill you?

He is going to see a doctor tomorrow. I think the alcohol was the catalyst so would imagine he will stay on the same meds.

My throat is sore but I am ok. I can eat, swallow etc.

He must have a lot of anger and resentment for you bubbling under the surface, especially as he was already planning that HE was getting your child when splitting up. Very distressing for you.

Oh op it was fairly serious strangling then if you are still sore

No wonder he is so contrite and remorseful now, he must have realized the serious consequences for him if you report him. He is trying to avoid this at all cost.

You need to tell someone. Your doctor or the police but you have no option but to tell someone.

Hello,

First of all i'm so sorry about your MC. That is enough to deal with on its own.

It sounds like you and your DH have been through one hell of a year all told.

I'm worried though, that this might make you see his behaviour of the other night in a different light to the way you would had you had an easier year.

I really, really don't think it is normal for your DH to put his hands round your throat in any circumstances whatsoever.

This year my DH and I have lost three babies- at 5 months in Jan, 3 months in May and 4 months at end of September. I have had 3 erpcs (one a repeat), one labour and delivery and one very bad PPH that required emergency surgery to save me. I currently have no job and so no income at all and i'm not really mentally well enough to start looking at the moment. Due to the job market my DH has been earning what he earnt 20 years ago as an unskilled student- he was taken on last year with a very low basic plus bonus that never materialises as the owner fiddles the books to show no profit at the end of each quarter. We have absolutely no money. We have massive detbts, and no certain way out of them. My DH's parents are frail and his DH is very unwell. His DM had an op 2 weeks ago.

I'm writing all this as I want you to know I really do understand what a truly horrible year can do to you mentally, physically and emotionally.

BUT this doesn't have any bearing on the throttling- it really doesn't. I'm at my wits ends trying to cope with life but the idea I would lash out at my DH in this way is preposterous to me, as I'm sure it is to you. It should be true of him also.

I am very concerned for your safety.

Please, please, take steps to take care of yourself.

If he means what he says WRT to how serious this is, and how remoresful he is, he will understand this. If he doesn't then it shows he doesn't mean what he says.

sorry that should have read "his DF is very unwell. His DM had an op 2 weeks ago"

If a person on medication with a known side effect of psychotic behaviour starts to have episodes of uncontrollable anger that were not previously present, my first port of call would be the doctor who prescribed the meds to have them changed.

I'm surprised so few people consider this to be important.

I think the meds might be a red-herring because the OP states she has been scared by his behaviour in the past before the meds, so this seems like an escalation of his behaviour rather than a new behaviour.

OP what happened to you was extremely dangerous. The fact that he now says he can't remember anything makes it even more dangerous - he was completely out of control, and you really have to think hard about whether you can trust him again. To be honest, I wouldn't give it a second thought. These things can't be undone, and there is a real risk it will happen again - or even worse, escalate. The brutal truth is you were assaulted, and you could go to the police and report it.

Don't forget there is always a first time - by definition it is always "out of character" if it's never happened before. That doesn't mean it won't happen again.

Get some advice, quickly. In the circumstances, you should qualify for legal aid. Tell him to leave, but if he won't, don't go back. It won't affect your right to a fair division of an assets from the marriage. You might find this helpful background information and plenty of advice and links:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

It is useful if you can get to grips with the language of family law and procedure, and get an understanding of your rights, BEFORE you see a solicitor. If you are well prepared you will save time and money.

Children

If there are children involved, their welfare, needs and interests are paramount. Parents have responsibilities, not rights, in this regard. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It does not mean equal (50/50) parenting time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order - ?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance. Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below. Residence and Contact Orders are likely to be renamed Child Arrangements Orders in future.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.

You can also find out about Legal Aid and get advice on the Community Legal Advice Helpline on 08345 345 4 345
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

Or search in your area for Community Legal Advisors:
legaladviserfinder.justice.gov.uk/AdviserSearch.do

Co-operative Legal Services offer DIY/Self-Help Divorce packages, as well as a Managed Divorce service. Their fee structure is more transparent and they have a telephone advice line as well as offering really good advice on their website:
www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/family-and-relationships/

You can read advice and search by area for a family lawyer here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

You will also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:
www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it?s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights and issues around contact are further explained here:
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown
www.maypole.org.uk/

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

CAB Benefits Check:
www.citizensadvice.co.uk/getadvice/benefit-calculator/A2B-Benefit-Calculator/#730

Parenting issues:
www.familylives.org.uk
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Other Support for Women ? Children, Housing, Domestic Violence
www.womensaid.org.uk/ and refuge.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 2000 247
www.ncdv.org.uk/ - Helpline 0844 8044 999
www.gingerbread.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 802 0925
Housing www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown
(Note that there is usually an appropriate link on these websites for England, Wales and Scotland where the law, advice and contact information may differ.

how long have you know him? ie pre-marriage how many years, what do you know of previous such episodes of ill health medications etc?

if he is unwell physically and on meds which may have side effects he does really need urgently to see prescriber.and talk to them about it. also you need to talk to the GP too from your perspective as he "does not remember" .

the fact you have been scared of him pvsly is a worry.

the fact he a) does not remember what happened but otoh is
b) prepared to accept it did happen and talk about anger management is a litle weird - does he remember or not?

if he does not remember then you are at risk as he may do other things he then doesnt remember/has no control over?

he only needs to maim or kill you once... (whether due to drugs/psychosis/anger or whatever.)

i agree with other posters saying until he get to the root of why he did this you should consider staying away from him.

OP read Lundy Bancroft, I bet you are being played but you have to realise it for yourself because you are too conditioned to heed the warnings.

"he had his hands round my neck and was shaking me. Obviously I got him off and then we went home"

What would you say if your best friend called you and told you that story about her husband?

You were subject to a murder attempt, what if you blacked out before you got away?

Do it fast while your DC still has a life and a mummy, it can all change in a moment. You can go to your GP or relate and ask for your own counsellor too, don't wait and see, you are not on mn asking because you think everything is fine. You totally doubt your own instincts and want us to back you up. Probably because you have spent a long time being told you are responsible for another adult's behaviour - you aren't. We are doing it, confirming what you know, now get safe whilst you still can.

OP: Was your H previously on any medication for his condition? I took the liberty of googling the names of the drugs you said he was on and wondered if his medication had been long term or whether this was a recently diagnosed condition? What I'm getting at is whether he had changed his medication recently or whether he had only just been medicated?

Agree with other posters, please take care.

OP, I'm inclined to agree with bits of various posts!

Suddenly out-of-character explosions can be caused by metabolic issues. My first thought was to wonder if he's developed diabetes, before I read about the meds with psychosis as a possible side-effect. I don't think you should rule this out as a likely cause.

It is concerning that he was in the habit of blaming you for earlier tantrums, and it's encouraging that you've both now realised the wrongness of this. If he ever says you've "made" him lose his rag again, you'll know there's a serious (potentially abusive) issue here. Given that he's also now identified the link between his emotional environment growing up and present behaviour, he stands a good chance of sorting himself out with some counselling. The initiative has to come from him and it's his work to do, not yours.

If the violence came from a medical issue, look at it this way. Some people have sleep disorders in which they attack their partners. They're just acting out dreams, it doesn't "mean" anything, but it's nonetheless dangerous for a partner to sleep with them. They have to have a separate bedroom, with a lock in most cases. Even if there's no underlying emotional-psychological complication with your husband and the cause is purely physical, it's a fact that he now poses a risk to your life. I'm surprised he hasn't immediately volunteered to move out - but perhaps the enormity of what he's done is still sinking in.

You need it to sink in to you, as well! He tried to kill you. The long-term implications of this remain to be seen. You may find, even if all else goes well, that your feelings have changed. This would be understandable.

Go as easy on yourself as possible, please, you've undergone a terrible assault and are reasonably shocked. You haven't got to solve everything in one go. Focus on doing nice things for yourself and DS.

Thank you so so much to everyone who has taken the time to read and respond. I really do appreciate it.

Mn is Full of amazing people x

Will come back and respond to the questions later but playing peppa pigs with ds now!!

olgaga thank you for your incredibly detailed post - I feel I should divorce him solely to make use of your fantastic information (sorry, inappropriate joke, but I haven't joked since Friday).
Fortunately I have my own career so and financially we are equal partners so I would be fine there. I know he wouldn't try for custody of ds, and if he did he wouldn't get it.

cestlavielife I knew him for 4 years before we married so have known him nearly 8. In that time I have realised he's a 'bottler up guy' but so are most guys I know. We have also often got drunk etc (ESP before ds) and he's never been like this. He started on one of the meds about a year ago and the second one about 3 months ago and the most recent one a few weeks ago. He hasn't really been drinking in the past year very often as he's not been well. Before hat there were no meds, recent diagnosis for physical condition.

lemony - it is relatively recent. I think dh has only really got angry since being on meds but he thinks it's him, not the meds.

because thanks for your message. I'm not excsusing him AT ALL but in any situation where someone has done wrong I always think of intention vs action. His action was horrendous, inexcusable and yes, maybe could have done me serious damage but I do not believe his intention was to kill me. I think it was a moment of madness brought on by alcohol (and obviously his underlying issues and maybe the meds) and I wouldn't stay if I thought there was a chance it could happen again.

garlic your post is for me, spot on. Really well ariculated. I do genuinely think this behaviour was not the real him. I mean, of course I know it was real, I was there BUT I genuinely don't think it would happen again. However I just don't feel the same about him. He used to be someone who would never hurt me. And he has.

I told him on the phone today I didn't think we could get back from this and I know he's devastated, says he's lost everything through his stupid drunken actions and he wants a chance to make it better. I want my family to stay together and I want to give him another chance. I also really want to know what he doctor says tomorrow. But all this aside whether I can ever look at him the same remains to be seen. He is upstairs with ds and I have seen he has bought me flowers. Fucking flowers - what a twat. Does he think that will make things better? Good mind to take them straight out to the bin. Wonder if any mnetters live near me and want some flowers to brighten up their home!

Anyway, I can hear mr tickle coming to an end upstairs so going to say good night to ds. Then I suppose I should talk to h..... H now, not dh, interesting....

Sincerely thank you for the support and thought provoking messages.