Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

sorry ginga not ginger! Late at night, brain not fully functioning....

Hi Ginga your situation sounds like the sort of rows I have with my FW and most of us on here will have also experienced Its so very hard isn't it especially with two young children (I have 2 toddlers). Please stay with us on this thread, I haven't been on here for long but have really found it a lifeline and we all support each other without anyone judging. Stay safe and try and get some sleep. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day. Hugs x

Morning girls (and HearToday) ,

Just touching base to say I'm still here, and thinking of you all. I love the new nn Hilde, that's what prompted me to stop by, seeing you with your new nn on another thread.
I've read your post up there Ginga and I have to say my X was like that. He'd be nasty as can be, then be all nice and kind so I couldn't say anything. Basically it gave him carte blanche to do and say whatever he wanted, then just to be 'nice' afterwards. It's a difficult thing to break, but now I'm out I will not let anyone^ treat me like that again. I don't know what to suggest, I know it must be awful to feel so bad. Maybe ask yourself if that's what your DC's should grow up seeing? That's one of the big reasons I left, DS was 2 and I didn't want him thinking that behaviour was normal.
You are not going mad, and please don't doubt yourself, that's exactly what your 'D'H will want. I've lost count of the number of times I wished my X would just bloody hit me and get it out of his system, rather than the constant anger/ignoring/sarcasm/criticism. I wish I could say your 'D'H will change, unfortunately most of them don't. It's the type of behaviour they learnt when they were young, and it's 'them'.
Keep posting here, everyone will tell you you're not mad, and the support here is amazing.
I really must drop in more often, you're such a lovely bunch

Morning all.

bertie - I'm so pleased that you're feeling able to be more assertive. I'm the same, always so busy trying to make sure it fits in with what the other person (ie NSDH) wants that I get walked over. I've managed to be more assertive a few times, most recently after the last incident when I told him that we weren't seeing each other any more, rather than saying 'i think this is the way to go, don't you', which would only have opened the door for him to say 'no, I don't, here's what we should do instead'. The more you practice it, the better you'll get at it.

trying, so glad to hear how happy you feel in your own space. You are getting there, it's always baby steps. Revel in your own steps, they are yours and you have done them all by yourself.

Ginga - keep posting, read the links. You sound like you're in a difficult, confusing situation, and with breastfeeding thrown in as well (which makes things confusing at the best of times). You say you are EA towards him too - I'm not excusing that, but I know we've all felt pushed the edge by our FW's awful behaviour and ended up doing or saying things we wished we hadn't. As Adele says: Yes, I swam dirty waters, but you pushed me in
At the end of the day, all that matters is whether you want to continue the relationship or not. If you've had enough, you are more than entitled to end things. (I know that's easier said than done though...)

hilde, am loving the sound of your free fun weekend! I always end up spending too much money that I don't have.

[waves at TodaysAGoodDay] Nice to see you back on here!

Morning all! Just been doing housework with my ipod blaring and a song came on I've not heard in ages." Where did it all go wrong" by Oasis. Never took much notice of it before but think I'm now in acceptance that I'm in an EA relationship it has really struck a chord with me. Just sums up my life at the moment and even if I do escape it will still be a major part of my life (13yrs) that I won't ever be able to forget. Sorry just feeling abit teary think I need to find a different set of songs for this morn before I have to use duster as a hankie!!

I am right in the middle of abusive event from both ex and his gf, and haven't got the emotional energy to read too much into the awful sufferings going on here since my last postings and my heart goes out to all of you. I have picked up exactly the same worries that I had/and still have around what EA actually is!!!

I offer this in the hope that it might help someone with their own clarity somehow:

What it is, is very insidious, and difficult to pin down!
It starts very subtly and certainly messes with your head so you don't understand.. thats when you start to question whats going on and why you can't seem to understand (spaghetti head).
The 'black mood', aggression, raging, terrifying outbursts, whatever, they are the fault of the EA, not their partner, ever! If the EA blames their mood on their partner, that is EA - e.g. "ITS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE YOU LISTEN!!! " "You're the only one that 'DOES THIS' to me" (yeah right, its a sure fire way to STOP me listening! complete spaghetti head!)

Can you laugh in the face of 'THEIR' mood, rantings, rage, are you scared, then that's what to take to a counsellor. Learn to manage your own reaction and use the counsellor to get resilience to take away the fear.
A personal mantra - DONT BELIEVE THEIR INSULTS/ACCUSATIONS - THEY ARE LIES MEANT TO ATTACK/HURT/ABUSE and NOTHING ELSE IGNORE THEM!

These things might sound impossible to do in the face of the abuse, but some of the beliefs we hold about whats happening prevent us from stepping away from it and seeing it for what it is. DO YOU EVER ACTUALLY BELIEVE ITS YOUR FAULT? Well it NEVER is

Take responsibility for your own actions, and let them do the same for theirs. Insults/and put downs, and trying to control your 'nights out' or curtailing your lifestyle are abuse. One can only state their own feelings about another's doings, end of (not MAKE them change)

There is a definition of DA that Relate have, and any counsellor helping with DA of any sort should be able to provide you with the definition of DA, there is a WHO one too. We had both read to us as a result of my setting out the latest 'incident' one time many years ago.

Not being able to get away from it is another for instance. My ex could see the expression on my face change to fear, even at times when he said that he didn't feel 'that way' atall (there was a glimmer of recognition of his actions) - but he could never remember any of the words said, etc. after the event (very convenient, but also true of the 'red mist' scenario).

I am close to tears at writing this, but I continue to try to face the fear.

Having read that back to a friend, I actually couldn't read it for crying. I know MY work to do though, which is to keep facing the fear and not acting on it (managing myself), and leaving him to manage himself without it affecting me.

Its awful to know that there are so many others trying to cope with this, but it does help with the 'its not me' belief because its happening to others too.

peace to you all

MaggieMay... once its over, you will eventually lose the 'pain' associated with the experience, and you will see it clearly for what it was without all the emotion attached. It will be just another one of life's past experiences that once had a hold of you.

BTW I saw some postings about 'freedom' - hadn't heard of it, can anyone explain what is it please?

also have others in EA situation spoken to womens aid, who have specially trained counsellors to empower women in such situations, and help with rehousing and 'hiding' victims of EA? They act as advocats for women, and provide constant unswerving support, even if its just to talk through whether you are being subjected to it or not (I think if you think you are, then you are, you just don't trust your instincts anymore).

Oh Shriek, sorry you're going through that at the moment (isn't it awful to think that even when they are an ex, they can still hurt us so much). Hope it's helped to get all that down.

Do you mean The Freedom Programme? I don't know much about it but I think a couple of posters (arthriticfingers for one) are doing it.
www.freedomprogramme.co.uk
It's on online or face-to-face counselling programme (I think). It's had nothing but positive feedback wherever I've seen it mentioned.

I've spoken to WA, thought I'd be wasting their time but they were so, so helpful. Speaking to them was my first real foray into telling someone, and they were so supportive and helped me be able to go on and seek further RL (and online !) support.

Thanks everyone, that helps to know I'm not insane.
I'm getting mixed messages par excellence today. He has been cleaning and tidying and cooking which I suppose is a gesture of sorts. But then he is also being cold, distant, withholding.
The kind of fights we have remind me of my parents rows, loud and potentially physical and emotionally very painful.
Maybe it's just what I'm used to so it seems normal.
I hate the big freeze. It's my punishment but he thinks losing his temper was acceptable?
Again confused, am I in the wrong?

withholding is punishing. Is abusive

Mine never tried to reel me back in with good behaviour - only occasionally with false promises. (Which makes me more of a mug - what was I thinking? )

He was very good at not engaging, which would wind me up into high volume. then he would blame me for shouting, and use that as justification for not actually listening to the actual words I was saying.

Just a few reminiscences before I second ginga Hang on in there.

CharlotteCIL.... I have also often felt that I would rather cope with physical/visible results of abuse. It has always seemed far more tangible (someone else used that word too). Almost validates that its really happening. Having the 'evidence' of hurts, which noone can see or hear with EA and the spaghetti headedness of it can be impossible to be clear to othes about what is really going on.

You wonder what you did exactly!?!?! and the endless self-doubt, and hiding away at your inadequacies that you are made to feel all soooo keenly.

Who knew?? Its so difficult to admit that someone who is intelligent can be made to feel sooo stupid, and someone so kind can be made to feel sooo uncaring, and someone soo together can feel soo unravelled. The confusion is torture.

A punch in the face is visceral, real, felt and obvious... no doubt (oh .. but hang on perhaps it was my fault really?)......

BTW heartoday What was your motivation here? someone asked but I didn't see any reply, or did I miss it?

thank you ponygirlc very much. Well it was a genuine attempt to put into words for others some of the clarity that had helped as there is lots of confusion around seeing it for what it is. Unfortunately when I did read it to a friend,before posting, I suddenly found it overwhelming!

I think thats why it is so good to actually speak the words as it triggers the emotion which needs letting out.

Thank you for providing the link which I looked at and concluded it was for victims of PA only?

Post correction: I was seconding Shriek and addressing Ginga.

Morning all. Hope all ok?

Shriek it was me that asked heartoday but haven't received a response yet.

In other news...FW has done his usual trick of making false promises and then totally shitting on me. This time however I was just waiting for it to happen so was prepared but still a massive headf**k. The last few weeks he has been giving me this speech how we will tighten our belts this month and he won't go out etc etc (aka not giving me any housekeeping as usual and not allowed to do my families food shopping as if the belt could get any tighter) anyway after all this crap he went right back to his old ways last night. The usual text was received advising me he was nipping for a "quick" pint after work and won't be all night. Next thing I know its 4am and he's rolling in shitfaced. This is what the usual situation is/was nearly every weekend. I've told him he is acting as if he is single etc etc and I can't do it anymore-hes in at 4am and I'm up at 6am with kids. Stupidly I can't sleep until he does get in so am usually a wreak for ages after. The thing is he thinks its normal to act like that as does all the other blokes that go back to each others houses after the pub for more booze. He says I am not normal and just boring etc etc etc. Especially as I won't allow him to bring anyone back to our house after hours. Sorry but I have 2 toddlers and hardly know some of his friends so don't feel comfortable with them here especially going up and down to loo whilst I'm in bed and FW is downstairs out of it not knowing what could happen. I'm not putting myself in that situation. But according to FW its because I'm boring. I wouldn't even mind if he had a night out arranged as I could just get on with my own stuff but its when I get those "quick pint" texts that my heart sinks as I know what's going to happen. Just the lies etc that does my head in. His friends/pub will always come before us and I hate him for that.

Shriek, I don't think the Freedom Programme is just for victims of PA, but for victims of any type of domestic abuse. But maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone else know?

Maggie, just wanted to say - it's you that's normal, and him that's not. He is the exception, not the rule. My DS1's dad had/has a drinking problem, I used to dread the 'quick pint after work, just the one', only for him not to appear for hours. None of the other men I knew who were in a couple did that. Not one. The reason was that they had respect for their partner.

He has no respect for you Maggie. He doesn't care what you think. You just don't feature in his thinking. It's not a relationship, it's a set-up that benefits him - he gets catered for and all the perks of being in a relationship but doesn't return it to you, because you don't matter to him. Have you read any of the books at the top of the page yet? Lundy Bancroft is especially good, talks a lot about an abusive man's entitlement, how he can't give up being abusive because then he'd have to give up all the perks (like being able to be completely selfish and do what suits him) and he doesn't want to.

There's a fantastic visual aid (in Lundy I think) whereby the normal family dynamic is represented as circles: Both the man and woman's rights are the same size, the children's are smaller but nearly as big.
In the abusive relationship, the man's circle is huge, the woman's is very small and the children are marginally smaller - his rights are inflated and the woman has few rights, and barely more than the children.

Thanks for your advice and support pony I know he has no respect for me or wouldn't do the things he does. The first thing he said to me when he came in last night was that he loves me so much. Actions speak louder than words in my opinion now and I have no trust in him whatsoever. His words and promises are all bollocks! It is so right that they just want the benefits of the relationship. With my FW he wants the happy family show to carry on in front of everyone but then when behind closed doors totally different story.

I haven't managed to order Lundy yet. Need to do it so it is delivered when he's not around. Have heard so many good things about that book. Also had a look online at the freedom programme the other week-is it worthwhile doing? Is there a programme/course that he can do? Actually forget that-would probably be like flogging a dead horse. I would end up just getting sarky remarks from his course thrown at me. Re the rights illustration. I think my circle is probably smaller than the kids in this relationship need to get onto womens aid and carry on with my escape plan. I had foolishly put my plans on hold these last few weeks thinking he was really trying etc etc. What a mug! Last night just proved that. Which of course I am over-reacting about as its my hormone time Arsehole.

Hi ladies, Maggie so sorry to see how hurt and upset you are. Hugs. Hi to all, just nipping on quickly in between jackbooting argy bargies from a certain person (clue, it's not the cat ) Actually he's settled down a bit now (FW not cat!) but this morning was hellish until he thankfully took himself off to footie (Ah, bless the kindly football fairy for giving his long suffering family some respite) Anyway, catch up with you later, lovely thread friends. xxx

wise words pony

Maggie sorry to hear of more upsets. Also if he wants to go on course thats for him to recognise there's a prob and him to find course or resource to help, sadly it won't work him hearing you say about such helps. We hear what we each want to hear and he may just hear that as you saying 'ITS YOUR FAULT', or whatever his particular filter around your words are.

For instance,if I've asked my dc what they want to do, times for visits, etc. and I relay that on, my ex hears that as 'i'm dictating MY terms to you', he doesn't think it might be what the dc want! or that visit times are only about HIM having to get to the appointed venue/time, not that I have to stop everything to make sure we are there on time to meet. its ok to continually drop the long-standing arrangements at a moments notice, as that won't bother dc atall! and for no reason whatsoever given, just can't come. So never mind that dc is messed about as will then have to go somewhere else to cover.

BTW, anyone heard from heartoday as wanted to find out about this mysterious 'link' from the Guardian (if I've read that right?), to this abuse forum? I haven't seen any articule in the Guardian recently about the mumsnet abuse thread, and would be v. interested to read what it says, so if you are lurking heartoday perhaps you would take a minute to share as it might be helpful for many on here?

another very familiar scenario (coming home drunk way after closing with others).

Are these people even friends of yours that he invites into your home whilst the family are sleeping upstairs (or not, if you are lying awake waiting for it all to unravel, worrying). It is so wrong. Up to him what he does when living in bachelor pad on own without babies/partner. He's not. Its yours and your babies home too, and this shows no consideration or respect (seconding pony here).

I hopeyou sleep well tonight. and that to you all on here, a peaceful sleep and rest (you need to rest well to get escape plans together! ;) fingers crossed