Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

For any planning it... plan it well and definitely have contingency. Although it was infinitely better and life (after a few months of jumping at shadows still) became far more relaxed and happier, that was at the expense of sleeping at night for me due to the financial terror (I'm still not saying don't do it, but you'll know when you're ready to make the jump). What I hadn't been atall prepared for was to now have 2 abusers and their families on my tail aswell, and also pouring evil about me into dc ears! Feeling like I have definitely exchanged the devil I knew for an altogether devil I don't know who uses dc now as a pawn and I'm at my witsend to know how to manage that as I not the Jeremy Kyle sort atall, unlike them who are willing to resort to abuse and cruel games with dc. I always try to keep cd well out of it, but there's a lot being said on the other side.

You are spot on Hildebrand. "be nice to me and don't shout at me please"

I think trapped and exhausted MrsOP is the reason that so many men still have partners! I know so many women, who, with a reasonable income and no children to be responsible for, would be outta there, but they stay in between the rock and the hard place.

To put oneself and child/ren possibly into poverty surviving with a mum that is hanging by a thread with no support around iis a very real reason why many (I think absolutely understandably) stay in the shit place, taking the abuse. All thoughts of that flew out of my head once it happened in front of dc, as witnessing it is child abuse. I wasn't thinking that, but just couldn't let it happen not bearing to see the distress to a child.

I would suggest finding out all you need to know beforehand, like others here seemed to have a plan, discover housing/benefit/support options urgently and shape your and your dc lives before moving into it. Extremely difficult when so tired I know. Thre are agencies out there to help support also maybe ring around to find out who you can connect to. It can be so isolating. Look after yourself and grab sleep wherever you can! Hope something tohelp in this?

Hey hilde - I don't think YABU at all. I think your unexpected angry feelings are par for the course, given how long you've been dealing with the situation, and will keep happening. It's not unreasonable for you to feel sooooo frustrated that it appears to be very easy for him to suddenly be doing all the normal things that you could only have wished for before. If it's so easy, why has it taken all that you've been through to get him to this point?

But I think the reality is that he's trying to point-score, and he wont actually find it that easy, and you might find that after one week of doing it he'll be reluctant to do it again, and then you'll be back to being angry with him for different reasons... [anger] He maybe thinks this road he's on is going to be easy, all he has to do is make a few token efforts. He'll be in for a shock!

trying - of course you don't sound like a nutter!!!! Well, no more than me, anyway! I completely know what you mean about the house. My family kept on at me to get him out of the house so we could move back in, but in reality I'm much happier here in my little flat that's entirely mine, no bad memories in any rooms. Do what's right for you, neither is a wrong decision, just different outcomes, both of which will be good for you but in different ways.

MrsOP - of course you'd cope being a single mum. Not all days would be like that one, that would be a hectic, crazy day for anyone. (And from the sounds of it your NSDH didn't have any input into what was going on, so it was no different to you being a single mum anyway.) I worried that I wouldn't be able to cope with two on my own. But I am, I've surprised myself. And other people (hey fool, raising my to you) have done it with more kids. It's so daunting, but don't let it stop you.

Maggie - I know what you mean about the toddler group, I'm really shy and hate going to new stuff like that too. I know you felt you had a bad time, but why not give it one more go? Force yourself to have a chat with someone, even if it's the playgroup leader (I find they're often up for a chat). I used to go to one where I didn't really talk much to people, I often felt quite tearful while I was there, but at least going along got me out of the house and I was always glad I'd made the effort afterwards.

Charlotte Shriek Pony thanks feeling better now after 3 cups tea :) yes I can manage the chaos for a day or two...but its the idea of NEVER having a partner to step in is so daunting (even though he does far less than his fair share).

I cant really see what an exit plan would look like to be honest.

Maggie Pony is right, but some groups are friendlier than others. Also if there is more structure to the activity then there's less time to feel like you have to make small talk. Does your local church, children's centre or library run any singing groups/story and rhyme time sessions etc. You only need to make one friend and then it will become much easier - they can introduce you to others and then your confidence will grow massively.

But, MrsP, with your headspace freed from spaghetti head, you'd most likely find you have more energy and more space to make local friends or at least contacts with whom you can share out childcare time. I have at times felt like a single mum, with NSDH away or working long hours and not helping at all or giving me more things to do. I sometimes have a couple of dcs' friends round (6 dcs feeling little different to 4, ime - so much chaos already!) and then when they return the favour and take 1 or 2 of mine away, I find they do a much better job of it for much longer than NSDH manages can relax a bit.

Maggie - up to you if you have the strength to go back to the toddler group, but just to say it's quite possible that at least one of the yummy mummies was feeling for you and under the calm exterior is honest enough to know just what it feels like to be in the position you found yourself in. If you try to start conversations, you'll find half the time the other person jumps in, grateful not to have had to do it herself. :)

And if times are desperate I find CBeebies to be a good childminder for the time it takes for a quiet, restorative .

:o

Hilde Lundy explains your anger - as he so so eloquently explains so much.
He uses the analogy of co-workers. One has offloaded for years and got away with it. The other co-worker has picked up the pieces. If When the shirker realizes that they have freeloaded for years, it is not enough just to start pulling their weight like everyone else. They have years and years of stuff (time, effort, care, money) they need to pay back.

Hilde I joined the Freedom Programme online (I don't live in the UK). It is good. See if there is a group near you. It might be worth checking out.

Hilde If you want to look at the Freedom Programme together, I am up for it

Hilde I agree with the others plus its the realisation that he COULD have done this stuff all along, he just CHOSE not to because he couldn't be bothered to do his fair share.

My H took DD to a baby group this week, probably up there with pulling out his own toenails for him. He is trying really hard but is this real.? I am doubting myself now and wondering if I am just being a drama queen.

I know the 'sunglasses scenario' so well Hilde. My ex didnt' do any tidying, house repairs, nowt... so wasn't worried about that element of being left to do it all all the time, as felt I was anyway, and when visitors came was the only time it even mattered and i would get emotional abuse til in tears, I was shit, house was shit, all that kinda thing.. and would then don the sunglasses, or hide in my room! People do notice, and some, very few say something, and very rarely someone might say something to him! (I'm not sure that last bit happened tho).

MrsOP, a 'plan', if you wanted one, will take a while to develop until you can 'see' what that would look like. It will come on its own if thats what you want, and you can further it with your own investigations should u want.

Once a change (however, temporary or small) is made [taking dd to baby group] everything 'feels' different

My NSDH is now being all nicey-nice again, cuddly and what-not when he got home last night, which is messing with my head.

I've also had a brief look at the freedom programme, but like you hilde despite being in a central location there isn't one anywhere near me.

Oscar, there are times when I wonder if I could cope as a single mum, but with NSDH commuting so far he doesn't contribute at all during the week, and sees weekends as being 'for him'. The way I've tried to see it is that if we did split, I could manage as I pretty much am now anyway (and so are you by the sounds of it), and if he took DD every other weekend I'd actually get some time to myself which I never get now!

My NSDH is a bit like your ex Shriek, everything house related is down to me, but he gets very grumpy if there's any 'mess', and goes totally overboard if we have guests coming, its quite frightening. And so agree with you about even the smallest change making a difference, this is what I'm trying to tell him in counselling but he just isn't listening.

Work is exhausting me at the mo, as is studying and homelife. Shall keep swimming though.

Your "sunglasses scenarios" sound familiar, although I don't often cry in front of other people. I keep the feelings inside. So perhaps it's not emotional abuse in our relationship.

I'm so confused again. Have just had a thoroughly depressing (individual) counselling session - more on that later. You see, I read a scenario like the sunglasses ones and think that sounds familiar, but then think of two or three examples where it's been unpleasant, but not abusive; and I can sort of hazily bring to mind occasions when he's been quite unkind, on and on, until we reach our destination and that brings relief, but I don't remember anything specific.

So WTF's going on with me? I feel like I've done such a good job of sweeping everything under the carpet that I can't remember anything any more. And he's being very nice atm, which I've interpreted as the good behaviour bit of the cycle of abuse. But how can I be sure if I can't say specifically what the abuse is? I remember a few lone incidents from the spring when I started looking out for them, but before I told NSDH I hated his guts had some issues with our marriage. But a few lone incidents don't make abuse. I expect everyone could read the first few chapters of Lundy and find a few things that happen in their relationship. Am I actually in a relationship with bad communication problems and trying to lay all the blame with him by twisting it so it fits the definition of abuse? What a scary thought.

Ok, the counselling. Last week, she said that NSDH sounded damaged, which was validating, and this week said he's probably quite insensitive, which sounded about right. But I don't feel validated at all this week. I told her about the risks he takes with our dcs' safety (doesn't care about seatbelts, lost our 2yo in an airport, took our 2yo (another one at a different time!) on a speedboat with no lifejacket, just for the fun of it)) - and she said, "So you have different approaches to risk." Which made me feel like she was belittling my concerns! She keeps saying, "If this were couples counselling we could address this this way..." or "That's a very common relationship problem (holidays)." I felt like I wasn't explaining things well enough. But perhaps there's nothing to explain that matters.

She thinks I should be more honest and open about what I want to try to address the power imbalance but also just as a useful way to develop in myself. Does this sound safe to you? I'm by nature very conflict-averse, so I tend to hide a lot more than I need to. See, I'm the fucked up one.

Oh crap, I'm late for picking up dd3 from nursery and seem to be unnaturally sweary today! Sorry for this garbled nonsense, none of which I suppose you'll be able to help me with, as you only have what I say to go on. Crap. I feel so depressed. :( :( :( Huh. Crying now...

*Charlotte" are you me?

I have had same problem in my individual counselling - feel like me and the counsellor are addressing the empty chair - DH is the one with the problem and he is not there. At end of first session, counsellor flicked through a lot of fact sheets to give me and kept saying oh no, that one's for couples counselling,..that one only applies for couples etc. made me feel ridiculous for being there on my own.

maybe you need a different counsellor, she shouldnt make you feel she is belittling your concerns.

I think it can be very hard to "diagnose" EA and the checklists at the top of the thread didnt strike a chord for me at all. The impact of his behaviour is perhaps more important than what the behaviour is exactly? When its many little things over time then it is hard to recall them, but do you remember my list that I started my first post with, that is what helped me start to get a grip on what was happening. so agree with Hilde some sort of log could help.

I am still unsure of what is going on and my worse fear is that t is all my fault and that I am just trying to blame H for it all.

Charlotte you sound so like me two years ago it is weird. I still struggle to nail what exactly my very clever and manipulative ex FW did to me to make me feel so inadequate and angry. He made me out to be the abusive partner when I flew at him.

I think sometimes you have to search within yourself for the result of his actions to find the truth, not try to pin down his behaviour. My FW could upset me without words, made me feel like a poor housewife and mother and got me to act out all his anger for him while he sat back in a PA way and blamed me for everything.

Since I left it has become clear that I am a happy calm person who enjoys life without much money or glamour while he is still blaming and seeking approval and wanting to be recognised as the best at everything. All becomes clear with time!

Hi all, someone said the word "Shirker" up thread, and it struck that that was exactly what FWEX was. And claimed credit for the jobs he shirked - he claims to have done the gardening, if so why I am ripping brambles and grass from the flower border?

I have decided that now is the time to tackle finalising the marital accounts for my own satisfaction.

Thank you so much for your replies. So good to hear others have felt the same. Clarity is returning gradually helped along by lots of swearing in the car just now. Have remembered two occasions in the past week where my attempt at assertiveness (having my own ideas and doing something about them) were met by criticisms from him and nothing positive. But then I find it easier to believe that I actually AM an idiot and he's venting legitimate frustration, than that I can do this being-an-adult thing and he's unduly negative. I'm also very negative about him (not wholly surprising), which I must try to stop as it undermines that second view of things.

Ha! Was just thinking that he can be very complimentary about me, when I realised that's about me speaking on the phone - because there are a lot of phone calls at the moment that he wants me to make so he doesn't have to! Seen through that one! :o

Doesn't the Beverley Engels (?) book talk about both partners needing to change in an abusive relationship? Could that be what my counsellor's getting at? Not that she's mentioned abuse because she doesn't like labels... Perhaps I should ask her about that. Does it not matter if it's abuse, then? Is there such a thing, in her mind? Hmm...

hilde: All that rubbing up against you in bed, look what you do to me, I can't help myself, you're so sexy shit.
Am I in fact married to your husband??? Word-for-word the same as I regularly got.

Charlotte, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way at the moment, but I genuinely don't think it's you. I agree that it would help you to write it down. I started doing that, because the spaghetti-headedness would set in and I'd somehow forget stuff when trying to recall it weeks later. When I did, I realised just how regular it was and how awful I was feeling. Even the subtle stuff is EA, if it's done over and over again and you feel bad as a result. I think that's what Lemon means - sometimes it wont be obvious what he's doing, so you need to pay attention to how it makes you feel.

Yes, I do keep a journal when I have the energy. But he is behaving relatively well at the moment (because he knows I'm detaching). Hence only remembering the few lone incidents in the spring before I alerted him to my, erm, changing feelings towards lifelong commitment. He's being good now, so incidents are small. I am still suspicious that they spring from the same attitudes, but they're still not much to go on. "What made you think that was a good idea?" is hardly VA, LTB material, is it?

At some stage in the past I let on to him that I wouldn't tolerate any PA or an affair. I would leave. I do remember that I had to spell it out on separate occasions about both those things. Kinda regret it now, as I feel it's pushed his abuse underground where it's practically invisible.

Arghh, spaghetti head! Anyway, so now I have my mum saying hope you can save your marriage and my counsellor saying it looks like we have differences of opinion. What would I do without you guys?!?