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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/10/2012 14:15

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 14:23

Blush Just realised I basically said I wish he'd hit me as it'd be easier. Sorry to those who know the reality of PA. :(

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 11/10/2012 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 14:27

Mmm, pass some my way, hilde. Here, have a Brew to go with it.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 11/10/2012 14:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSilverPussycat · 11/10/2012 14:36

My post was prompted by the thought that I too am still noticing and re-processing things a year after starting divorce proceedings and 2 months since he moved out. This despite the fact that I did little else but process our relationship since September last!

ponygirlcurtis · 11/10/2012 14:37

Haha, hilde! Shame we don't share one, we could then gang up on him together like Bette Midler and Shelley Long in Outrageous Fortune! Unfortunately, I can confirm that Mr PonygirlCurtis is always here. Bloody always.

Charlotte - him saying 'What made you think that was a good idea' is not VA, you're right, but it is EA, if it's part of a pattern of things said to subtly put you down. I think you are right in saying it's gone underground, he's just finding more subtle and hidden ways to undermine you, and then if you were to call him on it he could say you were imagining things, being over-sensitive, etc. But that's definitely without a doubt EA.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 14:37

Wow, you're so brave so say that (last line) "aloud". I think it and then feel dreadful!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 14:38

(That was to hilde, btw.)

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 14:42

Silver - gosh yes, I get hardly anything done these days because I'm too busy "processing our relationship"!

ponygirl - yup, "oversensitive" is a favourite theme of his. Usually accompanied by "concerned expression at poor wifey who isn't coping".

NiniLegsInTheAir · 11/10/2012 14:58

Not sure I agree that PA is easier to get over than EA having been affected by both, but there is a difference between the two. EA is more subtle and can make you doubt it's even happened (as we all know) but PA hurts you both emotionally and physically (as in 'how could he try to strangle me?'). I had it with both barrels back in April when NSDH hit me then claimed he hadn't and that I'd hit him first. Physical pain and a total mind fuck.

I too would be lost without you, I constantly doubt myself. Sad

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 15:02

Me again. Blush 'Nother question.

Thing is, if we're so spaghetti-headed about EA, what's the chance of the FWs themselves seeing what they're doing? Has anyone tried to get their OH to see? Any success? Or am I being hopelessly naive? (probably)

And if he doesn't see it, and denies it, that leaves me... having to trust my own judgment. Eeep!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 15:04

Wow, nini, that was before I joined so I didn't know. Understand why that'd be a total head fuck (good phrase). Didn't realise PA could be denied like that. How horrible for you.

HearToday · 11/10/2012 16:15

Hi everyone, this is my first day on here, and my first comment ? caught a link from an article in the Guardian? Disclaimer first ? I am a man! so feel free to stop reading now...

Firstly I wanted to say that I have never read anything so saddening and heartening as this blog ? it sounds like a lot of you are having an incredibly tough time, but still standing and fighting! And the amount of support and encouragement you give each other is frankly inspirational and incredibly rare to see, both in RL (just learnt that!) and on the internet.

Secondly I wanted to give my (male!) perspective on your comments and EA (learning a lot in one day!). If any of you are doubting what you are experiencing is EA ? your reactions/ tears/ feelings are proof enough.

I am no saint (refer back to disclaimer!), and I do not have a perfect marriage, but if my wife (of 10 years) ever had to wear sunglasses to hide her tears, or hide in our room when we had guests, or cry with sadness/frustration when discussing our relationship and I did nothing to remedy the situation, but instead made her question her own sanity then that would be abusive.

Anyway really just wanted to express my admiration.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 11/10/2012 19:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 11/10/2012 20:38

Aw thanks, HearToday, nice to hear that. Such sanity feels rather rare some days...

ponygirlcurtis · 11/10/2012 20:53

Thanks for your comments HearToday. For a lot of us, this thread is a lifeline. And I worry about all of you ladies almost as much as I do about myself!!! Thanks

I think I agree with both hilde and Nini on the PA vs EA front, if that's not too confusing. I think it's that the EA stuff is so intangible, there's nothing concrete to prove it, it can all be waved away. I often thought if he'd just hit me, then I'd know for sure that I needed to get out of the relationship. However, one Saturday night (not long before I left), he suddenly started getting scary again, and I felt the fear, and then I realised that no I did not want him to hit me, I wanted to stay quiet, go to bed and avoid trouble. Both are horrible. Both should not have to be gone through in a healthy relationship.

Charlotte, your comment about whether they would 'see' what they were doing made me think. There is a bit in Lundy (of course...) that talks about how, while it might not be a fully conscious 'I'm going to say awful things and make her feel bad', it is more conscious that you'd think. If I call someone a name, I'm not consciously thinking 'I'm doing this to hurt them', but on some level I'm aware that my namecalling will hurt, that's part of why you do it. He has a reason for being EA, probably to keep you in line, and it may not be a constant conscious effort but he's aware on some level of what he's doing. That's what I think anyway!

MaggieMay05 · 11/10/2012 21:21

Nini my FW is the same, if any PA occurs it is always my fault-i hit out first. The reality is that I am defending myself and fighting back and refuse to just take it. Sad. However he is clever and the PA is never stuff like getting beaten etc but little acts of PA here and there. Pushing/shoving/poking etc.

I also get the housework speech too (shithole) and so on and god help me when visitors are due or if they turn up without notice. The car situation also sounds very familiar and the sex pest situation.

Have they all been to the same FW finishing school do we think?!!! Hmm

MaggieMay05 · 11/10/2012 21:32

Ana just checking if you are ok? Not heard from you on here for a while? x

Pony totally agree with what you said about this being a lifeline and worrying about each other etc. I don't know what I would do without this x

Heartoday thanks for your nice post. What made you search for this thread?

Smile
bertiebassett · 11/10/2012 22:34

Hi how are we all doing?

I had an interesting counselling session yesterday (don't worry it was an individual one Grin). She wanted to know how I communicated with FW...to figure out how I might get him to listen to me. I recalled word for word a particular conversation between FW and I....she repeated it back I me...I realised I sound like a complete pushover...not at all assertive.

So from now on ladies my approach will NOT be "this is what I was thinking of doing...is that ok with you?" it will be "this is what I will be doing"

I tried it out tonight...I know it's not about winning ....but FW definitely backed down (most likely only for the time being but it's a start)

Smile
tryingsoonflying · 11/10/2012 23:16

Hi all, hope you're all well.

Thanks for feedback, Pony and Hilde.

I have been sitting upstairs all evening, as I sensed a conversation might be looming (aka FW shouting at me and telling me how awful I am and everything's my fault - the fact that I don't engage in arguments with him anymore could well be torturing him!), so basically I hid upstairs in my room.

When I heard him go to bed just now, I felt my stomach relax a bit. When I got a cup of tea and took it into my nice, tidy, cosy room, side light on, cat on bed, ability to read comfortably in bed without using torch under bedclothes (FFS), no angry huffing and sighs when no DTD forthcoming, etc etc, it felt wonderful and I thought how much I've moved on.

OK I'm not out yet but I'm half way there and am a notoriously slow mover Grin. Anyway, I thought to myself, if I feel this great about my own room, how bloody fantastic must it feel to have my own place. Anyway I'm rambling, sorry, but having felt utterly hopeless and defeated earlier in day, I now feel strong again. And once again it's thanks to this thread and our collective strength. Cheers, ladies Wine (ramble, ramble from nutter Grin)

tryingsoonflying · 11/10/2012 23:18

PS Heartoday thank you for your words. It's always so wonderful to hear about the decent men who are out there and to remember Fwittery is in the minority, if that makes sense.

TheSilverPussycat · 11/10/2012 23:34

trying it is lovely to have my own place I have now reclaimed the study, which previously was filled with the chaos of FWEx's ebay collectables business.

tryingsoonflying · 11/10/2012 23:42

Excellent work on reclaiming study, silver Grin

Ginga66 · 11/10/2012 23:56

Hi,

Feeling pretty shakes so thought I would come on this thread. History too long to go into now but suffice to say dh and I both qualify as being emotionally abusive in our own ways.
This morning he was very negative, pulling me up on things etc. I tried to stay cheerful and unattached in the face of his black mood.
I was with ds1 and ds2 all day and made an extra effort to clean and tidy and bake so he could one back to nic house, kids asleep etc.
Came in same mood so I said can we talk. He walks away closes door so I get upset and something snapped in me and I asked him to leave. So he starts to go which flipped me as i wanted a least a modicum of protest. I stood in his way and we started a pushing match I suppose. I would not move and he just tried to push me out of the way. Then he punched various objects in the kitchen.
I used to have a temper and have worked hard to get it under control.
He said I paranoid, no self esteem, too fragile and sensitive, good luck findin someone to live with me. Then he says he won't just leave as would upset boys, we can phase a separation.
I'm just crying and trying to breastfeeding baby who has woken up.
Then he goes all nice, stroking m hair, sorry for pushin you, did I hurt your back? You pushed me to act like that etc. I do love you. Shall I put baby to bed? Doesn't the house look nice?
Am I going mad? He says I orchestrated row and that he is normal and sane and I am unhinged and my version of reality is wrong.
Sometimes I wish he would hit me and get it over with because at least that is black and white domestic violence and I know that is wrong.
He is sleeping in ds1 room and I'm with baby.
I feel so shaky, I feel weird. I don't know who this person is, I'm starting to doubt myself.
I guess I just want some support please.

tryingsoonflying · 12/10/2012 00:10

Hi ginger, sympathy to you. Pushing you and punching objects in kitchen is not normal, it's abusive IMO. His words were unkind. Blaming you for whole scenario is wrong. I'm not surprised you feel shaky and weird, specially as you're bfing and probably worn down physically. Doubting youself and being told that you orchestrated row is something we have all experienced here on this thread and you are in the right place for support. Brew