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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/10/2012 14:15

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
hildebrandisgettinghappier · 06/11/2012 13:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 06/11/2012 13:44

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ponygirlcurtis · 06/11/2012 14:02

It's like he wants a big pat on the back for being so wonderful as to finally have stopped denying it. Sure there's a bit in Lundy about that, or something similar. But it's all just words, words, words. Saying it over and over does not make it true. Actions that reflect this 'new-found' wisdom and self-awareness, they will make it true. And, surprise surprise, the actions behind it all are sadly lacking.

At least you now have a big email 'confession' to back yourself up, should he ever start denying it again.

I'd quite like to sign up for some basket-weaving at our funny farm. It sounds soothing (although will probably lead to splinters).

MrsOscarPistorius · 06/11/2012 14:04

Lol Hilde. Sign me up for the funny farm too then. I'm not convinced your FW is sincere -it seems like he knows exactly what he is meant to say. Has he really seen the light after just 6 weeks separation when youve suffered years and years of abuse?

ponygirlcurtis · 06/11/2012 14:08

PS, never mind about the name (I can still only think of you as hilde!) - although you could contact MNHQ to remove that post, if you're worried.

I've just had a thought, related to what I just posted. (I'm obviously on a roll today, or in dire need of transferring out to 'the countryside'.)

In saying all these things - he's just looking for new ways to manipulate you. If he is the sort of man who can abuse you systematically over such a long period of time, repeatedly hurt you physically, all that he did in order to be in control, then he will certainly not mind telling lies (even if they are ones that paint him badly) if it means that he can still manipulate you back into the position he wants again, ie to let him come home. The words make it seem like he is self-aware, but really he's just using the words to manipulate you (and your family) into believing he's a good man deep down, therefore it's all water under the bridge, yadda yadda, now let's carry on as we were. And once he has you there, all those 'words' are a distant memory.

What do you think? Am I way off base, or do you think that's about it?

CharlotteCollinsislost · 06/11/2012 14:21

I'd say that sounds extremely plausible, pony.

Sign me up for the basket-weaving, please!

MrsOscarPistorius · 06/11/2012 14:29

Agree with Ponys diagnosis of Hilde's FW. I may have said this before, he reminds me of a case in WDHDT where the abuser twisted what he was told by Lundy's programme to persuade his ex to take him back.

Shriek · 06/11/2012 14:30

for what its worth Hilde he's lying! and he will keep on lying. Its irrelevant what HE says isn't it. You know the truth, he can tell anyone he likes, whatever he wants, it doesn't change the situation atall does it? If he said 'Yes, and I'm moving back in tomorrow, because they all love me and miss me SOOO much', would you believe him? He is showing himself as being pretty deluded about the situation to my mind, and clearly still misunderstanding everything about it.

Thanks very pony I will and have made some investigations, yeah. In stealth mode. Will have to see how that goes. can't wait to see whether better evening this eve :/

sorry no energy for anything more right now, but goodhopes for all xxx

arthriticfingers · 06/11/2012 14:48

Just one point, Hilde each and every communication from FW along the lines set out is attempted headfuck. Avoid if at all possible. Unless you are much stronger than I am.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 06/11/2012 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsOscarPistorius · 06/11/2012 16:25

Pony in my reply about Hilde's FW I forgot to thank you for your reply to my post, sorry! It is so difficult talking to people in RL isnt it?. My DSis is not unsympathetic and is aware there are ongoing problems with fuckwittery, but I think she and my DMum are just crossing their fingers that it will all work out. DMum has just not asked about it lately I think she's hoping it will all go away if its not mentioned.

foolonthehill · 06/11/2012 17:37

Dear All,

Thought you might find Attilla's post from a different thread illuminating, helpful...certainly fits me (like a glove)

The following applies to a friend who stayed within her abusive relationship for 8 years but eventually came to her own realisations about her verbally and emotionally abusive ex. What I also said during all that time went in but she had to come to her own realisations about the realities of what she was facing (and the effects of same on her child).

It does not happen because women are stupid or weak-willed. Abused women stay in bad relationships simply because nobody taught them how to recognize an abusive relationship when they fell into one. Two things leave women vulnerable to abusers; lack of information and lack of self-worth. Nobody would willingly put themselves through that misery. What follows are 7 critical mistakes that all women unknowingly make that put them at risk - that you doubtless made also.

1. You bring a lot of unresolved negative programming to your relationship.

You may say that you were riding high before you met your abusive partner. (Abused women frequently tell me that they were doing well before they met their emotionally abusive partner.) That may well be true. But here is the other side of the coin: you felt bad about yourself; you had low self-esteem. You didn?t really believe you deserved the best. In fact, you didn?t believe you deserved very much at all. That is why you settled for a partner who you actively disliked at first glance. Chances are your parent(s) trained you to expect to be treated as inferior.

2. You don?t have clearly stated needs, wants and expectations at the start of a relationship.

Well, you wouldn?t, would you? You were trained to be less worthy (than pretty well everyone). So how could you possibly imagine that your needs, wants and expectations would be important to anyone ? even you. Maybe you thought that if you could just get your partner to love you, then he would want to focus on your needs, wants and expectations. It?s a nice theory, but it doesn?t work, because it is like trying to rewrite a contract, after it has been duly signed and witnessed. The contract you actually signed up to stated that both of you would focus your energy on meeting his needs, wants and expectations. Why would he want to change a state of affairs that suits him perfectly.

3. You are brilliant at putting yourself last.

It?s probably in the context of your relationship with your abusive partner (and offspring) that the word ?martyr? comes up most frequently. But you are an Olympic medallist at people-pleasing. Your unvoiced hope is that, one day, if you do enough for other people, they will finally reciprocate. How long have you got? If it hasn?t happened yet, the overwhelming likelihood is that it never will. A wise person once said: ?Today is practice for tomorrow.? What you are actually practising is throwing good love after bad; while your partner is practising bleeding you dry. If today is practice for tomorrow, what do you think tomorrow might look like?

4. You are quick to believe the best about everyone - except yourself.

You?ve grown up in the fantasy kingdom of The Pedestal. The most precious thing in this kingdom is the pedestal on which one lucky person gets to stand, because of their outstanding personal merit. Maybe, at the start of the relationship, your abusive partner allowed you to stand momentarily on his pedestal. But an abusive man soon reclaims it ? by right, of course. Standing on the pedestal means that he is The Best ? and you are a sorry excuse for a woman, a partner and a human being. Because he says so, you believe it; and because you stand so far below him, you find it easy to believe that you stand far below everyone else also. Believing is seeing, is it not?

5. You fail to learn from experience.

An abusive relationship represents the ? insane ? triumph of hope over experience. Every time you tell yourself that it won?t happen again, that it will get better, that you can believe his apologies (if he still bothers to say he is sorry); and every time it does happen again. The only difference is that it gets a little worse. And you hang on in the relationship, by tooth and nail, in the vain hope that it will get better. You hang on while the months turn into years, maybe even into decades? but it never does get any better.

6. You don?t hold your abusive partner accountable.

Perhaps you tell him that you don?t like his behaviour. You may even have left him, on occasion, for a while. But, sooner or later, you ?forgive him?. You take him back, and the abuse starts all over again. Why? Because he knows that although you might make the ?right noises?, there are no real deterrents to his behaviour. He knows that, whatever you say, when push comes to shove (as it often does) you will put up with whatever he dishes out. In an abusive relationship, you get the behaviour that you are prepared to tolerate. How do I define the term ?tolerate?? What you do not draw a line in the sand under, in reality, you tolerate? Under which of his behaviours have you actually drawn a line in the sand?

7. You become a denial superstar.

Distorting the true importance of what happens is a lot easier than changing his attitudes and behaviours. So, you tell yourself, and the world, a story that is less unpalatable than the reality. ?He can?t help it?, ?he doesn?t mean it?, ?he loves me, really?, ?he?s had a difficult childhood?, ?it?s just the alcohol?, ?he?s going through a really hard time?, are some of the stories you tell yourself to explain his treatment of you. The next stage is: ?I don?t blame him for feeling like that?, ?it?s my fault, because I??, ?if I hadn?t done X, he wouldn?t have??. And then there is: ?he?s no worse than a lot of men?. Your justifications sanction his bad behaviour. By refusing to admit what is really happening in your relationship, you collude with him to allow the abuse to continue.

full house for me...how about you.

It is somehow empowering to see that there are some things that are about us...because these things we can change....we are not responsible for the abuse, they are, but we are responsible for ourselves and our DC and we need to take on that responsibility.

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 06/11/2012 17:41

On our own personal funny farm I will happily join in everything except expressive dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
ladygoingGaga · 06/11/2012 17:43

Evening ladies, reading these posts sends a shiver down my spine, how can so many men sound exactly the same Shock
hilde I agree that what he writes and tells you is what he thinks he has to do to seem sane and reasonable and to try to pull the wool over your eyes.
Once you can see through their controlling and manipulative ways it does become almost laughable.
I can see through it most of the time, but I do get suckered in occasionally, then I just dig good old Lundy out if i can remember where ive hidden it and realise its not me Smile

mrsOP your night sounded just like mine, I wasn't allowed to have an input to what was on tele, he too was sulky and moody all night, when I ended up going to bed early I was being childish Confused

He sent me an email today at work it was full of self pity and blamed me for his mood.

Like some of you ladies, I just keep the peace, don't argue, just trying to keep him level and calm. One day this will all be a horrible memory.

Shriek · 06/11/2012 18:30

it is energy draining egg-shell walking that we get so practiced at to avoid the outbursts.

I have read and inwardly digested fools extensive post, and it is spot on, so as regards lady's comment 'one day this will all be a horrible memory' - we mustn't 'hope' but rather 'make a change' so it is never repeated, otherwise we run the risk of sliding straight into another! (having been SOOO well trained an'all)

Dare to be different (tonight's mantra)

foolonthehill · 06/11/2012 18:34

I like your mantra Shriek!!

and have just drawn (badly) a cartoon of eggshell walking (I have walked on broken glass and DF did a firewalk last week)...do you think we could be sponsored for this...we would surely raise a load of money...some of us have/had serious stamina!

OP posts:
ladygoingGaga · 06/11/2012 19:00

Walking on eggshells is a great analogy Grin that is exactly what I do every day, I constantly worry what I'm doing/saying will set him off.
It's emotionally draining.

I like the mantra too Smile

I have my first appointment to see a counsellor, it took a lot to admit to someone that I could do with it. Everyone see's me as the strong one in RL, so I've not told anyone Sad

shriek now I have seen the signs, I will never fall into this again.

We had a viewing on the house at the weekend Estate agent just called to say they are very interested but not sold themselves Sad

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 06/11/2012 19:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 06/11/2012 20:37

HOUSE!!!!

Wow, fool, I am going to have to take a copy of that, it's too spookily accurate. Tick to every single blimmin last one. Number 4 - about seeing the best in people - was used against me numerous times as NSDH accused me of 'siding' with other people over him and not supporting him like a good Stepford Wife should.

MrsOP and Gaga - another Bingo here with the remote. In the end, I got so sick of watching Grand Designs/Top Gear/Extreme Fishing/Lovejoy that I resorted to keeping the puzzle section from the weekend papers to sit and do or pretend to rather than watch it all. Good luck with the counselling Gaga. And with the house!

bertiebassett · 06/11/2012 20:53

Fool full house here too Sad

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been neglecting MN lately...really busy with one thing and another. I'll try and catch up on the last few weeks posts and then update my own situation... Xxx

tryingsoonflying · 06/11/2012 21:13

Hi all,

Sppokily good summary, Fool as others have said! it's sadly very true for me too. Maggie I am thinking of you and of all of us sufferers tonight.

Well, my low offer was accepted! I feel stunned, scared, self questioning, (what am I doing, why would I leave family home, who do I think I am etc) but I really hope I can keep strong and go for it. I don't entirely trust myself not to bottle it... But how many years have I longed to escape, I have to put the material things aside and "choose life"... difficult to do in practice though!

Bingo here with remote too. Even the same type of tv programmes - Bear Grylls anyone?

ladygoingGaga · 06/11/2012 21:36

Thanks pony
I've given up on the remote fight again tonight, I've had to endure Heston for ten mins before I slid off to my room, get more sense from you all anyway Smile

Makes me laugh really though, that they even have to control something so pathetic, they will all be sad lonely men, with the remote by their side Grin

trying that is fab news on your offer, wow. I know you must be having mixed feelings, but you are doing the right thing, promise. You are right when you say material things are not important, I would happily give up all my possessions to be moving out. Just focus on your freedom, and happiness.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 06/11/2012 21:48

Hate him I hate him I hate him!

Getting so angry - he's fully into fw mode since the hospital visit (who was it whose fw thought a stay in hospital meant the slate was wiped clean? a few months back). Well, he did warn me his previous niceness was only to reassure me how important I am to him and was "unsustainable". Tonight, he's angry because he hasn't seen me do much around the house the past couple of days. I didn't know what to say to begin with, but the answers are coming to me. Must try to hold him accountable, as I too got full house in fool's list (although if you ask fw, I'm very good at stating my needs, pretty selfish about it in fact).

trying (or should I call you flying?) - I am so pleased for you. I am starting to believe that one day I can get to the stage you are at now - and I'm sure I will have the same thoughts and feelings when I do.

bertie - no need to apologise, you know! :)

ponygirlcurtis · 06/11/2012 22:06

trying, that's just fantastic. We have a saying up here - 'whit's fur ye'll no go by ye'. I'll pass on the Bear Grylls tho, ta. Grin Take a deep breath, and feel that buzz of excitement. You can just about remember what it was like to be free, it's within your reach. Hold on!!! Did you say you could move in 1st Dec? I am sat here in a rented flat furnished with their stuff, nothing in this flat is mine except the clothes and toiletries. And I couldn't be happier.

Charlotte - am completely [shocked] at his comment about his niceness being unsustainable! In other words, the niceness was just to keep you happy keep you where you are and now he knows you aren't going anywhere he feels comfortable enough to go back to normal.

Nice to hear from you bertie. Brew

CharlotteCollinsislost · 06/11/2012 22:16

Hey, I just got "lazy" on my bingo card! Woohoo!

I have done nothing these past two days, apparently. I didn't defend myself; seeming as this was said in an atmosphere of accusation, I didn't think I should have to. I haven't tidied up, and I've been mning sitting down whenever he's breezed out of his office where he's been setting his own priorities working hard. He has to work so hard and I do almost nothing because the dcs are pretty good at looking after themselves now, you know. Angry I'm less important than a lot of things, like house improvements, tidiness, washing, so I shouldn't sit down and relax when I feel like it. And he mentioned it very "gently" yesterday and is disappointed that I didn't get the message. Got tearful at one stage at my rebellion. Hmm Aargghhh!!