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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/10/2012 14:15

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
yummymommy1 · 05/11/2012 11:22

hilde and maggie good luck sori bit too immersed in own dramas to read everyone posts but get the sense of people moving on , how intense. maybe the 2012 prophecy is true, so much going on in my/ others i know lives.

MaggieMay05 · 05/11/2012 12:25

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your support. FW went to work early this morning and the nasty texts started coming my way. He really has a bee in his bonnet about me and kids going to my mums tomorrow. He has friends that live across the road and basically the message was that they were watching if I took off with the kids. I am wary of involving the police as what will they do for him ramming a dishcloth in my face? And this will just make him more angry and the situation worse. Last thing I need is him chasing us down the motorway etc. I have been in this situation many a time before with him and his anger-i know I just need to get him back to being "normal" and no anger towards the situation-in the past this has been to try and get back to "normal" life-this time is very different-its so me and the kids can escape on a day when we will be safe to go. Even if its him thinking we are just going shopping and we never come back. I have managed to calm the situation down by texts etc, saying sorry and all that bsh1t so he thinks he is in control again which seems to have worked and he is on about a family outing to the fireworks later with MIL etc. I know he will be watching me closly now so need to just play the game as mental as that sounds. I have managed to still get going to my mums tomorrow as said she needs help getting to a hospital appt, so I won't miss out on DDs primary school open days. Re my stuff in the house, i don't want to give him that last bit of power of keeping all my stuff, he said the other night he would burn it all-he is crazy. I will just leave with me and kids in our PJs if I have to as long as we are safe leaving and get out of here without anyone thinking what we really are doing and alerting him to it. To a normal woman all this must sound absolutely mad and they would get out now. To someone else that has been in this situation they will understand the playing the game until safe and out of his dangerous angry watch is the safest way for me and kids to secretly escape. God feel like I'm in that julia roberts film where she fakes her death. Thanks again for being there everyone, I really appreciate it. I know he is dangerous but also know after 13 years experience of this crap the more he feels he is loosing us/loosing control of us the worse PA will get. When we go this timw it won't be like the last few times I have tried which involved lots of conflict, me racing off in car with kids etc and then eventually going back to him. This time will be different, we will wait until safe and go and never look back. This time we will sing songs in the car when escaping on the motorway instead of us all crying/sobbing like in past failed escape times. Thanks again everyone xx

ponygirlcurtis · 05/11/2012 12:51

The police could help a lot, I think Maggie. If you did report him, they would take it seriously, it was assault, as was the hair pulling, as was the threats about 'watching your back' - assault is just the act of putting you in fear of harm. I had a small moment of realisation not long before I left when I read in the local paper about a man who was arrested for threatening behaviour - ie shouting at his partner and making her scared. He was charged. You have had so much more than that done to you, and it could all be reported, even now.

If you phoned 101 and told them you were in the process of leaving a DV relationship, what advice did they have, they could put you through to their DV unit who would talk to you (alternatively, you can probably find the direct line for your local DV unit online). I've phoned and spoken to my local DV unit a couple of times, both times without reporting anything but just giving my name (although I didn't have to, I wanted to). Both times, one of the specialists there spent at least half-an-hr talking to me, giving me advice, giving suggestions of resources etc to use. As well as confirmation that I was doing the right thing, it gave me a feeling that I was in control, I was doing the right thing and gave me more strength.

You could request that the police come to the house while you pack up the car, as you are scared that he will turn up (or his friends will) and cause problems. You could arrange to check in with the police station near your mum's house, for them to know that you arrived safely.

I really, really worry about you going back to 'normal' with him, because I think he sees his control of you slipping and that's dangerous. I know you think you can manage it, you have done it before and you'll get by. But you shouldn't have to. This is an awful, awful situation.

Are you still planning to take the kids and go to your mum's tomorrow?

[hugs]

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 13:09

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shriek · 05/11/2012 14:06

Maggie go go go. These materials things do not matter to you or your children, you all deserve to feel safe, first and foremost. You might not want him to have/trash them (put them up in the attic and get a locksmith to fix a strong lock to it), or take up the van idea (it'll far cheaper than storage and you'll save money on all the trips it would take to do it covertly bit by bit). Get out and be FREE. You and your children will have the joys of peace, safety and love and trust (the greatest gifts you could ever bestow upon them). Lodge a list with solicitor and take pics of all your items so that if any 'go missing' or are damaged you have proof and he will have to recompense, or at least he will know that you have taken these steps and lodged pics with the solicitor before he gets any crazed ideas about trashing your stuff and getting off scott free

Go go go... use the ways that are there to get out, please don't wait any longer, you know yourself that you will only be subjected to more of the same and feeling just as bad as you have over the last 24 hrs (48 hrs/days/months/years). Protect your lives not your things, they matter not.

oh pony I really hope you turn the corner quickly, bad back and bf and chest infection, you sound v. low physically. The nights can be so long with all that going on. I have to say that although I bf I really didn't 'wakeup' in that sense, and my back was bad too after giving birth and in a lot of pain. I hope people are around in RL that are helping out to get you through this.

love and hugs to all for support strength and security. Watching this space for flying Smile - I hope you too Maggie

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 14:21

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hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 14:51

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ponygirlcurtis · 05/11/2012 15:12

Good for you hilde. It's all a step in the right direction, it's power to your elbow and all that. And it's ok to disagree with your dad, or for him to disagree with you - as long as he doesn't judge you for doing it differently to him, that's all good.

Interesting about the CAFCASS booklet. My DS2 isn't yet 1 (later this month...), and I don't feel comfortable with him staying away overnight, and I can't see my feelings changing overnight when he turns 1.

trying - you made an offer yet????

Charlotte, I also meant to say to you - I was so pleased that you got something from kimberlina's FW's email and saw some of your own situation - maybe now you'll believe us when we say, yes, he is abusive!!!! Wink

Maggie - how you holding up? Brew

Shriek · 05/11/2012 15:59

i found it very shocking when someone once said to me that if I didn't put the necessary blocks in place to prevent abuse to DC then I was guilty of allowing it to continue. I don't know how that works in terms of courts etc,if you claim the partner is abusive and thats your reason for keeping them away from FW, but that you allowed them to be subjected to it for an extended period.

has anyone else heard this, any ideas?

CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/11/2012 16:22

Good timing with that comment, pony - am normalising like a mad thing today!! Blush

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 17:20

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Shriek · 05/11/2012 17:27

A fine line Hilde for sure Sad I was also recently made aware that DCs witnessing FW abuse to mother is 'child abuse'. But! I've also just remembered that WA advised of situation where a mother suffers at the hands of an abuser causes psychological harm and therefore considered to be 'extenuating' circumstances? Certainly in a court case this should be true, as rape victims are not directly put in front of the rapist, and questionning under certain circumstances should be done away from the abuser giving one time to consider properly and not be 'back in the abused spaghetti-head state'.

Niome · 05/11/2012 20:04

The witnessing of domestic violence can be auditory, visual, or inferred, including cases in which the child perceives the aftermath of violence, such as physical injuries to family members or damage to property. Children who witness domestic violence can suffer severe emotional and developmental difficulties that are similar to those of children who are direct victims of abuse. The legal system is beginning to recognize the need to protect and care for these children.

The emotional responses of children who witness domestic violence may include fear, guilt, shame, sleep disturbances, sadness, depression, and anger (at both the abuser for the violence and at the mother for being unable to prevent the violence).
Physical responses may include stomachaches and/or headaches, bedwetting, and loss of ability to concentrate. Some children may also experience physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Others may be injured while trying to intervene on behalf of their mother or a sibling.

The behavioral responses of children who witness domestic violence may include acting out, withdrawal, or anxiousness to please. The children may exhibit signs of anxiety and have a short attention span which may result in poor school performance and attendance. They may experience developmental delays in speech, motor or cognitive skills. They may also use violence to express themselves displaying increased aggression with peers or mother. They can become self-injuring.

What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence?
Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. Because children have a natural tendency to identify with strength, they may ally themselves with the abuser and lose respect for their seemingly helpless mother. Abusers typically play into this by putting the mother down in front of her children and telling them that their mother is ?crazy? or ?stupid? and that they do not have to listen to her. Seeing their mothers treated with enormous disrespect, teaches children that they can disrespect women the way their fathers do.

Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers? abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships.

Children from violent homes have higher risks of alcohol/drug abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, and juvenile delinquency. Witnessing domestic violence is the single best predictor of juvenile delinquency and adult criminality. It is also the number one reason children run away.

Niome · 05/11/2012 20:06

The witnessing of domestic violence can be auditory, visual, or inferred, including cases in which the child perceives the aftermath of violence, such as physical injuries to family members or damage to property. Children who witness domestic violence can suffer severe emotional and developmental difficulties that are similar to those of children who are direct victims of abuse. The legal system is beginning to recognize the need to protect and care for these children.

The emotional responses of children who witness domestic violence may include fear, guilt, shame, sleep disturbances, sadness, depression, and anger (at both the abuser for the violence and at the mother for being unable to prevent the violence).
Physical responses may include stomachaches and/or headaches, bedwetting, and loss of ability to concentrate. Some children may also experience physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Others may be injured while trying to intervene on behalf of their mother or a sibling.

The behavioral responses of children who witness domestic violence may include acting out, withdrawal, or anxiousness to please. The children may exhibit signs of anxiety and have a short attention span which may result in poor school performance and attendance. They may experience developmental delays in speech, motor or cognitive skills. They may also use violence to express themselves displaying increased aggression with peers or mother. They can become self-injuring.

What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence?
Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. Because children have a natural tendency to identify with strength, they may ally themselves with the abuser and lose respect for their seemingly helpless mother. Abusers typically play into this by putting the mother down in front of her children and telling them that their mother is ?crazy? or ?stupid? and that they do not have to listen to her. Seeing their mothers treated with enormous disrespect, teaches children that they can disrespect women the way their fathers do.

Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers? abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships.

Children from violent homes have higher risks of alcohol/drug abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, and juvenile delinquency. Witnessing domestic violence is the single best predictor of juvenile delinquency and adult criminality. It is also the number one reason children run away.

Niome · 05/11/2012 20:44

oops sorry posted twice...don't know how to delete the second one....sorry

ladygoingGaga · 05/11/2012 21:54

Evening everyone, I've posted on here every now and again, but find it hard to keep up.
But need our help tonight ladies.
A summary is, I'm living in the same house with my ex, he is just a nightmare, I recently read Lundy ban crofts book, and OMG it was written about him.

Tonight I returned from a long weekend away, had a fab time with friends and family, I foolishly thought nothing of it.

Except I've come back to a moody, horrible FW, he has been drinking on an empty stomach, and I'm back to staying in my bedroom to avoid any confrontations.

It has just really upset me, last few weeks he has been fine, god knows what's happened in the last 3 days.

His passing sneering comment when I went off to my room was something like 'just you wait and see' great, now I'm worried again.

Sorry to vent, but knew you would listen Sad

Shriek · 05/11/2012 21:55

thanks Niome, brilliant information.

Hope everyone ok tonight and been out enjoying some fireworks? take care all

MrsOscarPistorius · 05/11/2012 22:01

Maggie hope u r ok. Thought things were getting better here but return of FW behaviour tonight. Stupid argument over tv again-he hogs the remote, becomes very aggressive if I don't want to watch what he does. Accused me if trying to pick a fight and being childish. Ds1 who is 13 unfortunately witnessed this and tried to mediate. Ultimately FW got his own way . It's not good Sad Sad

MaggieMay05 · 05/11/2012 22:13

Hi Niome wow. Welcome to this thread. Thank you for providing all this information. Do you have personal experience of PA/EA/FA? I think most of us victims ladies that are always on this thread are already well aware of how the situations we are in/have been in affect our children and it saddens us greatly. We do the best we can to protect them and sheild them from what is really going on whilst remaining safe. We would die for them. It is not always straightforward to leave a situation straight away and can be more dangerous if we try. We never forget what impact it has on our children or how it can affect them in later life-this probably haunts most of us daily. We almost forget/hide our own feelings to try and focus on our DC. You will find most of us on this thread are making those steps to escape the abuse we are/were trapped in and trying to rebuild our lives with our children. The steps may sometimes be baby steps for our own safety but they are steps in the right direction. Although even when the giant step of leaving the relationship has happened you will see that many on this thread still receive the abuse, although it is from afar. I'm sure I speak for us all on here when I say none of us ever expected our lives to be like they are and to be trapped how we have been. Those with children myself included would have done anything for them not to experience what they have and is why we are working so hard to escape and rebuild safely.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 22:14

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hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 22:15

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ladygoingGaga · 05/11/2012 22:20

hilde he has previous for going through my phone and bedroom, so this time I took the Lundy book with me, he has found it before, but now I have highlighted bits, he would go mental if he found it.
Just writing that makes me sad, can't believe I have to do that Sad

Ironically when I was away, he was texting and ringing me about any excuse he could think of.

Just a shock to come back to it.

CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/11/2012 22:20

Oh, lady, how sad to have to come back down to earth with a bump. Or rather, the alternative reality that FWs like us to think is normal. Are you likely to be living with him for a while still? Hope you can barricade the door and immerse yourself in happy memories of the weekend!

Thinking of you, Maggie.

Will be glad to get back to the school run tomorrow. Don't feel like I've talked much to anyone who knows me recently. (Realised this when was quite overwhelmed by kind tone of pony's little message to me!) FW is immersed in stressful work situations (eek! Thinks he might lose his job!), so is ignoring me mostly. I had a brief chat with our lodger/friend this evening about his life and problems; think there must've been some cynical laughter in our conversation because FW came down with some flimsy excuse or other and said he'd heard laughter (in jealous tone). Lodger/friend has retreated to his room (don't think he was there for the comment, but was for FW's sudden unexpected appearance); probably sensibly as he was told it was "awful" to use a packet sauce in the lunch he (friend) was making for us ie FW. Shock

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 05/11/2012 22:31

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ladygoingGaga · 05/11/2012 22:37

Just catching up on the thread, thoughts are with a few of you, especially maggie I've just read your last few posts, stay strong.

charlotte the situation has no end in sight, until someone's buys the house Sad I've been thinking and its probably because I returned all happy, he had miserable weekend on his own (his own words)
So he is taking it out on me, but I can't shake his passing comment, he wants to make me worry, well its working.