DH threatened to leave (sex related)

[SexIsTheIssue]

We had a few baby free hours Saturday which DH took as an opportunity to row, when I tried to talk he turned away and refused to engage and since then it has been silent treatment with lots of door slamming. His major problem is sex, he wants it everyday, I dont, even before DC (who is 1.2, still BFing and not sleeping) we were 1-3 times a week, now I try to ensure 1 a week even if I dont feel like it (believing the "use it or lose it" mantra) sleep is far more important and I cant say I enjoy it and (TMI) I haven't orgasmed for a long time (to DH this is his measure of enjoyment).

Quantity has always been an issue but more so since pregnancy and explodes in a row every few weeks, DH seems to think he is in a competition with DS for attention and to him attention = sex. I'm exhausted with it all and admit I have withdrawn from DH as I cant cope with the constant sex groping, whinning, sulking and openly looking at porn when me and DS are in the room, i'm also worried about getting PG but DH flatly refuses condoms and when we do have sex it is all about what he wants. I have tried to explain to DH that this is very unattractive and unlikely to make me want sex with him but he threatened that he will leave unless I start enjoying sex more, I dont really know where to go with this, how do you enjoy something more? He basically issued an ultimatum that I have to stop BFing so I can go on the pill (solving 1 problem) and I have to have sex more even when i'm so tired I cry (but he will not allow me to have a lie in, ever, if he is up, everyone is up, if he is asleep woe betide anyone who wakes him).

My question is how do we reach a comprimise when we both seem to have entrenched postions, I cant force myself to enjoy sex more, I dont even have the energy to fake it, DH will not listen to anything I say/changes/suggestions, he has become very selfish when it comes to sex and as it stands today i'm thinking if he leaves it would be a relief in one way but I know he would make my life unbearable (he has form with previous GFs). I have suggested counselling in the past but that ended up in an epic sulk and hasn't been mentioned since. Before anyone asks, we used to be equals, he used to respect me and I used to have to confidence to tell him bollocks if he was been unreasonable, now...

Mr Dobalina (page 1) nice post, made me laugh !

( the how do we compromise answer )

I don't think porn use is a flag for DV/abuse, just in front of children, and also in front of guests (the HV) - it may not suggest DV/abuse, but would certainly make me feel like something was a bit wrong in that household.

(hope I'm making sense here!)

Well, we do now have that new definition for DV, which would include EA too.

Absolutely Sarry - sounds like horrible stuff to be living with. Lots of deal breakers for me there

This is going to turn into one of those threads isn't it?

The OP will get loads of good advice. Will come up with 1000 reasons why she can't leave him or throw him out whilst relating more examples of his bad behaviour, someone will question the OP and before you know it the thread will disappear into OTBT.

I wish I could respond but the amount of really sad threads similar to this is just disheartening. I'd like to believe that most are just an exaggeration and that nobody actually lives in this kind of situation.

Threads like this could very easily turn you into a man-hater.

OTBT?

I'm a man, and I hate him.

I think there's usually very little exaggeration Rhubarb. I think in some of the better relationships there can be good stuff happening as well, some pleasant days together with the DCs for example. But then if there is I think that's usually mentioned too, at least in passing. No, I think you're right - a lot of seriously unhappy and abusive relationships being lived by many women.

OP, you say you do not want your DC to grow up without a father; problem is, fulfilling that would be at the cost of the emotional and physical wellbeing of their mother.

I'd also urge you to consider whether a man who is bullying, controlling, who lacks boundaries and who angers so easily is someone you want to living with your children and providing the model for who they will be as adults.

My father was a womaniser and a bully and it did me no good. He was great to his kids, fun and generous, but also controlling, and the fact that his behaviour towards my mum and his other partners was 'normalised' to me from early childhood meant that I grew up with a skewed idea of how men do and should treat women. Hence me making several irrevocable mistakes in my own personal life.

If you leave there are many agencies who can assist you in making sure this man does not stalk you or impede on your life. Once you leave you are not obliged to have contact with this man. A solicitor, Women's Aid and your local police's Domestic Abuse Liason team will assist you in this. You don't even have to see him to facilitate his contact with DC. It can be arranged through solicitors, mediation and the court system, and you can do drop offs/pick ups at a contact centre. There is no reason for him to have your new address or phone number.

If you can phone or visit Women's Aid I'd really recommend them. The first time I went I just talked and cried for over an hour. They don't push anything on you but at the same time they have heard all of this a thousand times before and will know exactly how to address every individual issue that worries you. They can help you with benefits and arranging new accommodation and moving your things.

Until you look at the men you know who aren't utter dickheads, Rhubs. But yes, I know what you mean about it being another one of those threads.

It's difficult to know how to respond, which is why I generally leave it up to the rest of you, who are less likely than I to grab the op and shake her by the virtual shoulders.

OneMoreChap, yes there are decent men out there still and thankfully I'm married to one of them but I fear for my dd growing up now.

This society is so sex-orientated. From the free online porn fully accessible to children to the media telling us women how to please our men and how often we should be having sex. There is enormous pressure to live up to society's expectations and porn is already influencing a new generation of girls and boys who have different expectations of sex - and these are not healthy expectations.

This world is supposed to be a more equal place for women. I don't see that anymore. I see it as a more threatening place for women.

There is nothing I could add to this thread that has not already been said a thousand times over. It just saddens me hugely.

Porn dehumanises and degrades women, treating them as objects to have sex on onemorechap so yes, excessive porn use is a red flag for DV

EA has always been DV...just the legal definition now recognises it...speak to any woman who has survived the violence and they will all tell you the EA leaves the most profound scars

This world is supposed to be a more equal place for women. I don't see that anymore. I see it as a more threatening place for women.

Agree so much. I thought relationships were going to become more equal, both outside and inside the bedroom. Now society has become even more "sex is a service done by women for for men" oriented since internet porn and increasingly pornified media. It's tragic. it makes men feel less empathy for women. I can see on this thread and board that's it's not only me who has experienced this firsthand.

Indeed it does MrDob - I suffered EA, along with the very occasional violence (about 4 times over 3 years, compared with almost constant daily EA), and it's certainly the constant name-calling and being put-down etc that has left me sensitive.

I am shocked that the HV may have seen porn being seen by the child, and did nothing about it?

Anonymous, just look at how many threads like this appear on Mumsnet on a weekly basis. The incidents of women being put under pressure to perform sex acts, the number of men using porn freely and openly and allowing it to influence their own sex lives, the number of children who have looked at porn, the increasing demand for more hard core porn - so much so that the porn industry are having difficulties in satisfying that demand.

Then look at the media and how they portray sex. Look at the soaps on TV, at the newspapers, at what women in the media are saying about their treatment, at magazines aimed at young girls, at reality TV programmes and their emphasis on big bosomed women and putting vulnerable women and men into positions that they hope will lead to sex. On live TV.

Sorry, I'm detracting from the thread but I feel so downbeat about this today. So fearful for my daughter.

She'll be fine with you as her Mum Rhubarb

I have a dd too - I'm just hoping that talking with her a lot more about relationships than anyone ever did with me will be protective and helpful to her. I hope she knows and will know that I'll always be there to listen, and through that example that there are lots of other people she can talk with too.

Oh my lord are you ther unfortunate lady who now has my ex?

If yes/no leave him! !

Watching porn in front of DC is child abuse and sick, he clearly thinks of no-one but himself! Argh!

Rhubarb We talk a lot about this on my Womens Aid course/counselling. Makes me feel sick.

I guess that's the best we can do when faced with threads like these. To ensure that the future generation is armed with knowledge, confidence and allies in us.

I think rape and emotional abuse should be covered in sex ed classes in schools. I was talking about this to my dd last night, I can only hope that her judgement in men is sound and that there are some boys at least who are brought up (perhaps by fellow Mumsnetters) to respect women. Although news statistics and polls show that many boys don't know what constitutes rape, have watched porn and do watch it on a regular basis and have had underage sex. I can hope this is not the majority but somehow I doubt that.

It wasn't ea which left me the biggest scars, it was sexual abuse of which porn use was part. The thing about ea is that is the the glue which holds it all together, without it abuse of other kinds isn't possible and it also normally begins with ea and subtle sexual abuse and abusive relationships are most easily identified by the existence of ea which is often harder to hide and easier to see and I would say very rarely exists on it's own even if that is what most victims of domestic abuse may believe at the start of an awakening. It isn't trivial at all.

There are a lot of good boys and men out there too Rhubarb. Perhaps we should give them some credit - and remember they're not all bad. I hope my DD gets to meet some of them one day. YY - thanks to fellow Mumsnetters who are raising some good uns !

... and what shocked me about the EA/DV equation is the amount of men who suffer this - what would never in the past have been described as DV.

Already we're seeing headline figures of between 20%-40% of DV offences being committed against men. I see this as only rising, and I think we'll see parity at least, as men learn they should report EA as DV... apparently.

FWIW, I don't think that me being abused verbally, and financially by XW in any way equates with some twat smacking his partner round every Friday night. Still wrong but so far not the same...

Sexualisation of children is, I think another issue; I fail to believe that in the 21st century we think it's appropriate to show adverts like the . Drives me spare. I also hate the fashion industry for its portrayal of women, and the bloody awful mags like Cosmo which while claiming to be for women continue to objectify them.

Porn... freely available and degrading to everyone in many of its portrayals - again, apart from the moral issue the ridiculous body images it attempts to portray.

Phaa!

"Already we're seeing headline figures of between 20%-40% of DV offences being committed against men."

is right.

See boxout

A poster, Treats on another thread kindly did some analysis

To that end, they've got a whole piece on domestic violence against men on their site and quote extensively from the British Crime Survey 2005/06. This bit caught my eye:

"In the longer term, since the age of 16, and again excluding stalking, the survey found that 28.1% of women and 17.5% of men reported having suffered non-sexual partner abuse, a proportion of male victims of about 38%. Of these, 19.1% of women and 10.4% of men reported having suffered actual force, a proportion of male victims of about 35%, which was designated ?severe? in the case of 13.7% of women and 8.7% of men, a proportion of male victims of about 39% - the same as in 2004/05."

This is presumably the source of the 'two in five' stat (39% roughly equals two in five)

But I did a bit more digging, and found this interesting Home Office analysis of the BCS, which included a bit more detail on severity and number of incidents of domestic abuse:

"There were an estimated 12.9 million incidents of domestic violence acts (nonsexual threats or force) against women and 2.5 million against men in England and Wales in the year prior to interview."

"Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09."

It's from The Guardian. I quote the Home Office figures they gave rather than the figures provided by the male right's charity Parity, which are the same.

I never knew that. Has anyone studied why the figures are so high?

Which was the lower end, Treats said 16%