Why do relationships with MIL and DIL get so difficult after we've had children?

[IA71]

Do you think it is the MIL trying to keep her position as top dog in motherhood? Are they trying to keep the DIL 'in her place' ie below her? What is the point in all these insults and jibes? Should a DIL keep her mouth shut and let the MIL say what she wants just to keep the peace?

My MIL talked to her family on my wedding day. Only her family. Those she's blood related to. When anyone else tried to talk to her she blanked them and turned her back on them. And no, she deosn't have any hearing problems.

I'd rather say fuck than refer to women as animals

My MIL disregards everything I saym She does the same to my SIL, her own DD. But takes as gospel anything DH or BIL say.

It is a status thing. She sees herself as above us in the family heirarchy, but not the men.

I don't think my MIL is unusual in that. It leaves me feeling irritated and disrespected.

Disatrous -

Can you imagine not asking your child about their life and what they are doing? WIERD!!!!!

Exaclty the same here - they are simply not interested in DH they DO know his phone number though..( unfortunalty)!! we have exactly the same - so controlling but not interested in what we do ourselves....I have come to realise its because she is not interested in anything outside her " domain", that is where we must see her - so she can moan about cooking for us/him
( she calls normal everyday tasks her "work"), tell us off about dirtying HER domain.....and get attention and control.

Someone on here once - a social worker said a really high number of cases of child abuse they go to - are where one child has been singled out and treated very diff to the other...ie one bedroom all fancy and lovely the other neglected and bare and so on. Same with my DH and his DS, and DS doesnt give a shit that her DB is treated soooo appallingly, she agrees with the DP's.

A family firend told me my DH was/is a massive dissapointment to his DP's and DSILS dh was everything they wanted DH to be!

She complains to her family and friends she never sees my DH - she hasnt much this year but usually a few times a month as he is collecting DD, she NEVER asks him any questoins or takes an interest, when he invited her here - ( i wasnt here) she stayed for a tense 10 mins and couldnt wait to get out...then says she could never just turn up here...

DFIL has only made rude comments about there not being much in our house to protect....and other comments about our house - ie vastly inferior to his ( in his mind) then he also moans about not feeling welcome here...They are NEVER POSTIVE when they see DH - they are only clinging on because of DD.

They tell everyone my DH has " problems" - and thats why at family occasions we stay seperatly etc! They talk about him like a mad - strange creature that happens to have been landed on poor them....

YUK YUK YUK .....vile creatures...

Why do you let these vile creatures have your dd?

Holey

I dont know! We dont any more...I do belive in giving people a chance though, I have seen the other side where my DB doesnt get on with my DF for VERY diff reasons to DH situ - and my DF hasnt seen GC...

It started off out of sheer desperation as they hounded us after DD was born and probably sent me into nervous breakdown....so DH would take DD there to keep them away from our front door. Of course now see they shouldnt have seen her at all....

I do realise though, no matter how nasty or whatever people can be - they can change, they can mellow and change with age - or heart attacks!! Or just be more - relaxed and nice to their GC than they were to thier own children.

So they were given chance for 4.5 years but during that time - I havant seen any evidence of relaxing, or mellowing, or any great benefit to DD, so now visits have been cut right down they have seen her three or four times this year and only for a few hours ( used to go from 8am to 8pm three times a month).

Mil has actually started to stalk us now at the school gates!

they dont know I dont think about DD2 and they will have nothing to do with her....and very little to do with DD1 now....

not easy though as entire family blames everything on me - there is quite a sweet old great granny who refuses to communicate her plans to us - but goes through DMIL< unlces etc....

I tried to encourage DH to encourage his relations to contact him directly so he isnt cut off from whole family but they literally REFUSE too! an uncle came over recently and made plans to see us then all of a sudden he started to say he couldnt come her e- it was too far for him ( 7 miles) and DH and DD MUST go to PILS house to see him!! we were bombarded with calls, emails, DFIL even came to our front door to try and FORCE DH to take DD there!!

anyway - i dont care anymore - none of them speak direclty to DH anyway about the issues....so be it!

elizaregina,

Toxic parents in my experience more often than not become toxic grandparents as well.

"Normal" ways of dealing with such relations do not ever work because they are so dysfunctional in the first place. Rules go out the window when it comes to toxic families; its their way or no way. These people have had more than enough chances; they are not going to change any for you or anyone else. Its all too deeply ingrained within their own pysches.

Do not put up with your MIL stalking you at the school gates; what she is doing amounts to harrassment. Tell the school as well about her behaviour.

Would suggest you read Toxic Inlaws written by Susan Forward if you have not already done so.

I don't think you can generalise as lots of women (and men) have fab mils. But my experience is very similar to what you describe op. To answer your questions:
Yes- ime my relationship with my mil changed dramatically with the arrival of dc. As it did with the other 2 dils. Fundamentally we get on well but she definitely changed with dc arrival.

My mil didn't finish school, married at 21 children at 22, no career. Although trained as a nanny briefly, has dedicated her life to raising her boys. Mothering is her 'thing' and her whole, entire life. Genuinely believes shes the best mother in the world. Frequently boasts about what a great mother she is, how well she raised her boys what a good job she's done etc etc. Can't let go of the 'parenting' role.
So yes, when her dil had children she desperately wanted to be 'mothering top dog' Got very jealous and competitive.

Yes since having dc, my mil wants to keep me 'below' her- expects me to submit to her. Doesn't view me as an equal, a woman, mother and wife myself. Wants to control and parent me. This sounds extreme but it's done under the guise of 'helping' and acts of huge generosity a lot of the time.

The insults and jibes seem to part if this ime- it's control. Little messages that she's a better mum, better wife and that she thinks she's more important to dh than i am .

No you should not keep quiet to keep the peace. Over the years my relationship has vastly improved due to me not accepting little digs and insults and working very hard to be in control of my family.
She is fantastic with the dc, and is a great grandmother so I make sure she spends lots of time with them. BUT any attempts to 'parent' the dc or me are stopped immediately.

Part of this is being very strong and also set very clear boundaries that confirmed she's the grandmother not the mother.

E.g I can't accept 'free' childcare for example. Babysitting ok, childcare isnt.

Constantly reaffirming she is a valued grandmother and not mother figure in our family has improved things without destroying the relationship. Getting your dh on board and supporting you as the mother of you family now is very important.

Apologies if this has already been covered- I haven't read the whole thread yet.

PlopButNOPudding

My mil didn't finish school, married at 21 children at 22, no career. Although trained as a nanny briefly, has dedicated her life to raising her boys. Mothering is her 'thing' and her whole, entire life. Genuinely believes shes the best mother in the world. Frequently boasts about what a great mother she is, how well she raised her boys what a good job she's done etc etc. Can't let go of the 'parenting' role.
So yes, when her dil had children she desperately wanted to be 'mothering top dog' Got very jealous and competitive.

This is exactly the same situation as me. Even down to the 'helping' which I have never fallen for. And she only had boys as well.

Thanks for telling me about this. She always denies everything I have told her she is doing and tries to maintain a 'mother theresa' type facade but when would mother theresa say 'I could take away your children but I won't'.

I do wonder if her relationship will change with the other 2 dils once they have children because at the moment they don't seem to see the change in her but that is probably as she can't compete with them on looks or career but will do when they become mothers.

We can't have her babysitting too often as they live 4 hours away (and that was another thing: when I was thinking of going back to work she kept telling me to leave my first son with them indefinitely as a way of 'helping'; he was 6 months old at the time) and that entails them staying over and she will without doubt throw in some sort of dig and upset me so I try not to have them stay too often. She has ruined our last two anniversaries by offering to babysit and then it ending in me and my husband having a row about something she has said.

It was our anniversary tonight and my mother babysat. No arguments this year!

Well done, IA71! Happy Anniversary as well.

Sometimes toxic parents start off as nice grandparents, because they like little children - but as soon as the little children get bigger and more challenging, like thinking for themselves etc., then they get subjected to the same toxic treatment as their own parent was. By then it can be a bit harder to extract the children from the relationship until they see for themselves that the grandparents are treating them badly. :(

Sometimes toxic parents start off as nice grandparents, because they like little children - but as soon as the little children get bigger and more challenging, like thinking for themselves etc., then they get subjected to the same toxic treatment as their own parent was. By then it can be a bit harder to extract the children from the relationship until they see for themselves that the grandparents are treating them badly. sad

Yes Thumb, this is what worried me, ok when she is young but now 5.....as said before thought they may mellow a bit etc with GC but havant at all - they cant seem to appreciate anyone who doesnt follow thier ridgid view on life - so what if DD doesnt ( hopefully!!) will she be made to feel worthless etc....

Also as I dont go to thier house I cant supervise or challange any behviour I dont like as I am not there.....

Disatrous- agree cant bear it when DD is pulled up on issues I feel are petty. I have known very strict people in my life but even they have a twinkle in eye and have something to balance it out - with my PILS they take thier house soooo serioulsy any misdemenour is literally like directly dissrespecting MIL....i wont have DD told off over what I consider to be such minor stuff.

IAU

I belive this is called " gaslighting" denying doing/saying stuff, mine does as well.

She always denies everything I have told her she is doing and tries to maintain a 'mother theresa' type facade but when would mother theresa say 'I could take away your children but I won't'.

My problems with MIL have got better since I had my children. Before she drove me crazy but now I just avoid her and accept she is part of our life, like it or not. She loves my children I would have my husband without her so there is something good about her. My solution is that of the wise monkeys, don't engage and know she's basically an idiot and I just not going to deal with her rubbish.

Elizaregina

I must say your tolerance is amazing! If i had in laws like yours i would have left the country! I guess tolerance is something i can not make myself so comfortable with because i believe no one has the right to control or let you live your live because it suits them...when i got married and moved into my inlaws with my hubby, times were tough but i fought back not in a bad way but i stood for myself where i thought my sil's or mil were unreasonable on various things...since then i have come a long way i.e. after having my daughter... i have realised their true nature and i know how much i can expect from them...

my mil is a nice lady just gets 'poisoned' by my sil's from time to time and that is when i get 'targeted' but recently i am trying not to be selfish and see their perspective for their weird behaviour and my discovery is that my sil who has two kids has had a bumpy marriage unfortunately and i now feel sorry for her but that doesn't give her the right or passport to stir shit in my marriage...sometimes one has to see the other side as well and i have learned that...from this day on i should just try to concentrate on my little family i.e. me, baby and hubby but from time to time care for my mil which i already do and maybe offer my poor sil who is going through marriage hell, as this is something very tragic experience for any woman.

elizaregina my MIL wants to be involved in everything in our lives. I feel like I am married to her as well! Me and my husband are both in our 40s and before we make any decision he asks both of them. She wants to know every minute detail of our lives and even asked me to email her a newsletter keeping her up to date with all our news. Seeing they can all email each other up to ten times a day and that doesn't include facebook comments etc. I don't think I need to do that! Its just all too much. I have to say that your PIL sound awful. Life would be so much easier if people were just nicer.

PlopButNOPudding I am asserting my role as a mother and she doesn't like it one bit. For my first son practically all his toys were bought by them but for my second child I have made sure that we buy him all his major toys and clothes. She has backed off but the comments almost seem like some form of tourettes. She can't seem to help them and doesn't understand at all that people can be offended by them. She thinks its my problem that I am offended not hers for saying them!

My mil...who barely wanted to know us before dc was born...has totally lost the plot!

I'm glad to hear than not all mil's are like mine but sadly a baby has made all of our relationships with her more difficult!

She...even by her own admission in one of her better moods....has behaved so badly.

I can sympathise.

I wonder if alot of it is to tooo with that generation....my MIL is in her early 60's - not really a feelings talking kind of generation?

Maybe we will all be alot better as MILS as more open to things?

I hope so...I just feel so sorry for all DILS who have problem MILS> I understand it must be quite awful to know your really getting old and your own child bearing time is over etc...but many women do cope with this without punishing the dils...

Life throws so many things at us - cancer - death - other traumas - if thier sons are HAPPY.....they should count thier blessings and all shoulders to the wheel to have a harmonious and happy time as possible - with humans thrown together - like mils and dils -

UNTIL something you literally cant do much about LIKE death and cancer and trauma comes along.

My relationship with my MIL deteriorated significantly after birth of DS1. She idolizes my DH who was very poorly (heart condition, stroke) as a small child, and who is a very affectionate person. WE got on fine before I had kids. When DS was born initially things were fine until he got to be about 2.5 and was not forthcoming enough - she would want cuddles and kisses when she walked through the door, DS wasn't like that at all, he would growl at her and twist out of her arms. I get that that was hurtful but she handled it in a very self centred way. I tried to tell her that I thought he was autistic, and DH and I told her that he responded that way to everyone. She decided that he just didn't like her and that it was all my fault (not DH's!) for mollycoddling him. We had a number of very difficult years with DH tending to put too much faith in his mother's opinions that he was 'fine' and would grow out of it, MIL make snidey comments - eg one year he chose her a birthday card with 'best granny' on it and when she opened it, IN FRONT OF DS - she said 'Well he didn't choose this did he'...one time he tried to show her a teddy and she asked him something about it and he didn't/couldn't answer and she yelled at him that he was 'so rude' - he was 5!

Things improved somewhat after his diagnosis of aspergers syndrome but recently she has started with the snide remarks again - eg I asked her if she'd show him how to make a particular meal she makes that he really likes, she says 'Oh he wouldn't want to do that with ME'....it's so immature and childish and hurtful. We deal with it by her only visiting for 1 night at a time. I really don't want my DS - who is vulnerable enough - exposed to her toxic opinions for any longer than that. He is bewildered as to why his granny says mean things in his hearing, because he doesn't understand the impact of his communication difficulties on her. But then he has a disability, and she does not.

Ugh.

My MIL acts like the 'mother' figure with my ads - especially dd1 and it makes me want to throttle her.

I'll say something innocuous like 'Get your pjs on dd1' and she seems to HAVE to say something like 'no, finish your drink first'. She's always trying to be the one in control. I've been very polite about it for 2.5 years (waiting for dh to man the fuck up) but on the last two visits I've been slightly tart and dismissive in these moments. i'll probably get worse... I also try and make their visits as spaced out as I can.

I completely understand pommedechocolat and doesn't it annoy you when people say that you are being oversensitive?! As women we know what another woman is saying and doing. Its men that have no idea...

My DIL has banned me from seeing my grandchild because she thinks I might harm her ! I have given my all in emotional, financial and practical terms to support her and my son. She has become a controlling monster who brain washes my son into thinking that I am a bad person ! I live some distance from them and can only visit once in a while, only for the odd day and have to stay in a hotel. I am at my wits end about how and when I am going to be able to see my grandchild again. The pain of not being able to is causing me sleepless nights. I used to get on well with my DIL, but since the baby was born, she has changed beyond recognition. Just what can I do to get things back to normal ? Any other MILs been in this situation ?

I think part of it is also them retiring as it does change people. I now find my own mother at least as annoying as mil, which kind of provides a healthy balance?

The issue with mine is that she tries too hard and is a bit thickskinned. So for example she will:

• Jump in the air to change dd2's nappy the second she has a poo (not annoying at all , but she can't want to do this surely?? )
• At least every other time I see her tell me I've lost weight, now I've been a size 12 the whole time (15 years) that she's known me
• Remind me when looking after dds that she's perfectly capable, er yes obviously, or I wouldn't leave them with you for the weekend.....
• Offer cups of tea every 10 minutes
• Never give a preference on meals drinks etc cos 'everythings fine with her', well apart from the too hot tandoori chicken which she manfully ploughed through with tears rolling down her cheeks We like chilli......
• When I have my hair cut tell me it looks 'better' lol.

Most of the above can wind me up (apart from the top one). It's acomplex relationship and I can take a deep breath, tell myself I'm being a real cow for being annoyed by the 'crimes' above. Because mine annoys me but she's lovely (and probably I annoy her, slow tea rate etc) so it must be so hard if either go out of their way to be difficult.

Oh dear, they are some awful stories out there. My bg is that I have never had a problem with my MIL, she has been wonderfully loving, generous and adores my ds. Unfortunately when I was pregnant she told me that I would always be distant with her because 'daughters favour their own mothers' (no kidding), and that I don't make the effort to include them in ds' life (he wasnt born yet). She also took great pains to convince dh that having my DM in the delivery room would lead to him being unable to bond with his son as he would be pushed out (he luckily was very grateful to DM for her support during my 24hr labour, as was I!). I think she is so worried about being excluded that she inadvertently has enabled it.
For example, when ds was born she told me that I was not allowed to have any of my own family there when she came to visit. My DM had taken a week off to help me out (cooking, cleaning to enable me days in bed to try to establish bf), and was very gracious in staying away but was very hurt by the implication that she would have hindered MIL bonding time. MIL complained that I was moody (4days post birth), refused to hand over ds for feeds and made plenty of barbed comments about the fact that DM was present at birth. She also made me chief photographer for the day and told me she didn't want photos of me as I was too moody and tired looking! I laugh about it now, because I know in the grand scheme of things it is not important.
In my case, it was her expectation that there would be problems that caused them, and has caused an awful lot of tension between the two of us now. I will always make the effort for my dh and ds' sake, but feel that she will never be happy as she will always imagine this distance between us.
Mumsnet has a lot to answer for!

" you would think he doesn't get fed at home" should be answered with " well he knows where the cooker is" you can add " i wasn't born with a recipe book up my vag"

your mil isn't the problem, your DH is.

dh, me and the kids we are a family. me and the kids should be number one in this family - and they are. this is where his loyalties should lie, and they do.

I expect it, and very early on in our marriage - i told him so. you need serious serious words with your dh.

also, would like to point out that you hold all the cards - and you are just letting them go. you have the dh , you have the kids.

the woman sounds insane, and i would distance myself from a woman who thinks she could take my children - you are misguided if you think that you are giving your children some wonderful grandma - she wont stop at calling you names in front of them you know.

but you live 4 hours away, you have all the power - and i would tip my hand for a short time and show it. I wouldn't phone - your dh can of course, i wouldn't get the kids to phone either, no texts, fb or anything. no visits for a while.