Man with extreme commitmentphobia - help desperately sought

[butterscotchbiscuit]

Hi there.

I'm a long time lurker but a new poster here and would be so grateful of any advice from Mumsnetters!

I've come here as I'm really at the end of my tether and quite desperate for help - I would love to hear if anyone has any advice to give me on my situation as I just don't know what to do...

I have been involved with a man for just over three years now. He is absolutely lovely - one of the kindest, most considerate and gentle men I have ever met. He's incredibly reliable and I trust him totally. (Should add that in couching him these terms, I'm not a babe in the woods - I'm 35 and since I was a teenager have had lots of long term relationships of 2, 4, 6 and 3 years' duration before him - so I do have lots to compare him to!)

So he's essentially perfect apart from one MAJOR flaw!

That flaw is that he has what I can only describe as extreme commitmentphobia. It's like commitmentphobia on steroids! Will give you a very brief summary of our relationship history (in bullet points!) so you have a brief idea of what's gone on (next post....).

The problem with the bloke isn't that he doesn't love you, it's that the behaviours and actions he's exhibiting are deal-breakers for you and you are letting him trample all over your boundaries and your feelings because you think the fact he loves you makes it alright. It doesn't make it alright. It's one of those cases where actions matter a lot more than words and lovey dovey fluffiness.

One thing I realised recently when I went no contact is that my ex wasn't going to look after my boundaries; they were incapable of being that thoughtful. I had to do it myself. In fact a mutual friend even said to me recently that they thought what I was doing was really brave (in going NC) because I was the one who took the decision and saw that it needed doing even though it was an incredibly hard painful thing to do. She is a very good friend of the person in question and it surprised me that even she could see that.

You also have slot machine syndrome; I also have this to some extent but it fades with no contact and time passing. You feel you have invested so much and that at any moment they might 'pay out' emotionally (because of the 'intimacy building' downloads that give you hope etc etc that you simply CAN'T walk away in case you miss The Big Win.
It is a cruel trick on his part, because it is never coming, and he should let you go gracefully. But he is never going to do that. You have to let him go or it will go on forever. To let go you have to start to give up on hope of a happy ending, and understand the great payout is never coming. This is very very hard and it involves being quite harsh and stripping away the bullshit and the 'Yes, but...' thinking. I know how hard it is, and time does help with that clarity.

Oh, and when you wrote "Familiar? Sounds spookily familiar!!! Right down to the feeling 'rescued' from all the rejection after splitting up the first time....

And oh the 'joy' when it happened it again, and we split up again... "

Yes yes yes. My most recent ex and I split up about 5 times and slept together the last time we met even though we were trying to 'just be friends' at this point. I went NC shortly after that because it was killing me. It was crazy-making, insane drama and I am so relieved I am out of it. Even though I miss them like fucking crazy a lot of the time. Other times I just think 'you were a sulky, petulant selfish little shit. I'm well shot of you.'
Good days and bad days

gingerpig Interesting to hear about it from a woman's view! I'm sorry you're going through that. He said the same thing about it (the therapy). He kept saying 'What if it doesn't work?' I can also see that it might take years, and might not work at all.

So yes - your advice - you KNOW it's going to be painful ending it. it was be shit and no you won't sleep for a while. but all that is short term pain for long term gain. cut the cord. - is spot on.

I'm basically just going to have read and re-read this thread over the next couple of weeks to keep me strong and remember what people have told me!!

but I think you know what you have to do. you are just avoiding and procrastinating because a) it's bloody painful and b) you tried before and gave in, so lost confidence in your ability to sit it out.

the ONLY way is cold turkey. you can't go round it, you can't go over it, you have to go through it.

maytheodds, how dreadful for your friend :( I live in dread of hearing that my ex is happily making things work with someone else after saying that they only wanted to be with me but were just too messed up by childhood intimacy issues to have a relationship with anyone at the moment. One of the reasons why I feel unable to be friends with them right now or maybe ever (we agreed 6 months no contact, that was 2 months ago) is because I am scared witless some new person will waltz in and have the happily ever after that I wanted with them. And I would have to watch it all through my hands. It would be so crushing I don't think I could handle it. I comfort myself with the thought that life is rarely that straightforward and people hardly ever change completely, so New Person would still have to put up with most of the shit that I did.
Desperately wish I could email my ex's last two partners, as well! Not that I ever would or could.

Have name-changed for this but I really feel for you. The thing you have to accept is that at some level you are also commitmentphobic, otherwise you wouldn't keep going for 'unavailable' men / men who let you down.

I'm a reformed commitmentphobe and was always doing the 'commitmentphobe dance' - either being chased or chasing. Relationships made me very anxious but it took me a long time to realise what was going on. If you and this guy are serious about changing I recommend two things:

1. The Hoffman Process - think of it as hardcore, accelerated therapy. It literally changed my life. If money is an issue - there were people on my course who took out a credit card to do it and never looked back.

1. Read Getting to Commitment by Stephen Carter. He is a reformed commitmentphobe himself so he understands the patterns that commitmentphobes follow. Both you AND your guy need to read it.

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt - but I can tell you that commitmentphobia CAN be beaten. It's tough but it can be done - but you have to dig deep and find out where it came from. Hoffman Process helped me understand the why's and see the patterns I followed to sabotage my relationships. The book helped me understand how to get past the commitementphobia.

I'm now very happily married to the best guy alive and my life is totally different to how I ever thought it would be. When we got engaged I had a few days of panic attacks - but the difference was I understood why and I understood this was just a 'programme' running in me. Stephen Carter says it's like taming a wild horse - it runs and runs but if you stay on its back eventually it WILL get tired. Pre-Hoffman and book I would have had the panic attacks and bolted, called the whole thing off. Instead I rode it out for a few days, told my DH - you are the person I want to be with and I will do whatever it takes to be with you, be it counselling whatever. It wasn't necessary - the horse got tired. It has never hit me again and we've been married for nearly 4 years now :) My life is brilliant.

Good luck to you both.

Can I just say that relate counseling is not expensive, you pay on a scale that you can afford, if your income is low then the fees are very low. He can't make the excuse of not being able to afford it.

Op if it was me I would ask him to go with you to relate, to attempt to sort out the problems. If he refuses then cut your losses.

I think Relate depends on area how low they will go, fees-wise. I know my local one can't go below £25 so per week that is still very expensive for a lot of people. You can get a referral for couples counselling on the NHS though I think.

OP: I'm sorry you're having such a miserable time and I agree with everyone else that this man is not for you, does not love you and is never going to change into a man who wants to maintain a longterm committed relationship with you.

However, it's important (perhaps more for him than for you) to understand that committed relationships are not compulsory. And if a person doesn't want one, that's perfectly all right and a completely valid way to live but it's something a person needs to accept about him/herself and be truthful about. All this self-help crap about turning oneself into a heteromonogamist because that's the only way to be a 'real' grownup is another of those Big Cons, like religion and the slimming industry; we are what we are and it's OK to be like that. If it weren't for the social pressure on people to be heteromonogamous, someone like this man would be able to tell you clearly and calmly that he does not want to have a relationship with you and you would be able to decide either to walk away or enjoy some uncomplicated fun and friendship with him.

it's not surprising he won't go for therapy is it.....as it involves some level of commitment!

I only went cos I was absolutely at the end of my tether, and I had finally realise how I felt in a relationship was not how most other people felt.

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour Oh my god.

Yep - that was a scary read. I definitely DO NOT want that to happen to me..... That really has put the jeepers creepers up me.

Thanks for sharing - that's exactly the kind of thing I need to hear, tbh.

I have a friend who was involved with a commitment phobe for 3 years. To be blunt, the way she got over him was having flings with a few other men via internet dating, then meeting a man who she really cares about and who she lives with and is trying to start a family with. She found it excruciatingly hard breaking up with him (oh the sexy what ifs with these men!) but she's far happier now.

Another friend wasted her late 30s/early 40s with one. Now she feels he took away her chance to have kids.

To be blunt, he sounds like a sweet enough guy, but 35 is the worst possible age to be wasting your time on him if you might well want kids. At 42, you prob wouldn't have time to have kids anyway unless you went for donor eggs. At 28, you'd have a bit more soul searching time. Right now, pissing around does matter. Move country to another job, whatever. Feel ill and sleepless - but realise you'll improve over time. But you've got the information you need about him and you don't have time to wait for years until he sorts his problems out.

I say this as someone who stayed in unviable situations for too long well into my 30s, feeling awful, soul searching, thinking there weren't the men around. Lucky me - eventually I got out of these situations, got it on with the love of my love, had a baby in quick succession. It does happen. you still can too but don't waste time xxx

GentleLentilWeaver

Again - wow The slot machine analogy is another great wake up call.....

That's such an eerily good way of decribing it...... there DOES feel like there's been some investment and yes, although I am ready to walk (and honestly - desperately - have been trying) I suppose there is the worry that payout time might come. It won't come.

It won't. Good on you :) x

FrameyMcFrame Thanks, and to others who have described how you can get access to therapy. The problem is - after that one time he tried - he said there'd be no point as he can't change it. The panic attacks just come. The anxiety won't go away by talking about it (those were the words he used).

So you can take a horse to water. but.... I have really given up on trying to change him and to make it work.

Which brings me to ReformedCommitmentphobe s post....

ReformedCommitmentphobe Thanks so much for sharing that.....

But of course, in this thread I have been trying to steel myself to leave him once and for all, and of course hearing things like that just make me think 'oh sh*t.....maybe I should hang in there after all...' - which is really not what I want to do, because I've been through so much pain and heartache over this already.

If I had heard about those books three years, or even two, or even one year ago...... Maybe the best thing I can do is say, 'Okay - you say you can't commit, so I'm going now. But here are some books you might care to read....'

If the books actually do anything for him, then great. But I can't buy them for him, wait for him to read them (again - he's not great at finishing books - too much commitment required!!!), wait for the messages to sink in, wait to see if it changes anything...... A whole other year could go by.....

I just can't wait any more. It actually makes me really sad to read your post - as a year or two back it would have given me so much hope. But I'm crushed now and I just can't wait any longer.....

Starting this thread was really to get advice to give me the guts to go.....

Time is ticking / I'm not getting any younger / am no spring chicken and other cliches!!

Butterscotch I can totally understand that and sorry if it has complicated things. Either way, I would really recommend the book - to give you an insight into how to 'spot' commitmentphobes next time round. When I did Hoffman I was with a very commitmentphobic guy. It gave me the clarity to cut my losses pretty quickly. I started dating again and found the book really helped me see the commitmentphobe signs so I didn't waste time with those guys.

And when I met DH I realised he was different - and between Hoffman and the book I managed not to sabotage things :) So the book will be valuable for you to read post-boyfriend to avoid meeting another commitmentphobe in a different skin.

Wishing you lots of love and luck xo

crazyhead THANKS!! Another wake up call. (Gosh, it really truly helps hearing about these other women who went down the same road....)

You're so right about the time and what's scary is how unbelievably fast it goes..... I had just turned 32 when I met him and so felt 'just out of my twenties', really. You have a totally different perspective back then.....

Only three years later and suddenly the world looks totally different. And how much do I regret wasting years on boyfriends in my late 20s that it was never going to work with!

I've spent a lot of years in education (heck, way too many years - I even have a darn PhD), and never once was this vital info to NOT WASTE TIME on unsuitable men ever imparted to me. I kind of feel the stupidest person alive for not realising this REALLY IMPORTANT information.

It's taken people I've never met before on a web forum to really bring it home. I'm totally grateful to you all, and to be honest, it's exactly what I was hoping for when I logged on this morning and put the request for advice out there. I'm going to be reading and re-reading this to get me through what needs to be done.

As crazyhead said, I'll Feel ill and sleepless ....but with your words of wisdom and advice, I'll get through.

Thanks ReformedCommitmentphobe

I will definitely think about reading that book....and also think about getting him it too (although won't wait around for the results....) If it helps him, that's another matter....but I won't wait to see.

solidgoldbrass Yep...I have no idea why...I'm clearly sucked into the zone of heteromonogamous/ heteronormativity and I have no idea why. It is a bit prison-like. They say we build the walls to our own prisons, so....

your sucked in because consciously and unconsciously it appeals
you like it
it's familiar, you stuck in a role you're enacting

izzyizin Just saw this:

As the song says, there must be 50 ways to leave your lover but I always favour the door marked 'exit' and I firmly close it behind me.

Like it. Will repeat

butterscotch, I'm glad you have some clarity about this man now. It's really hard to accept, I know. Mine used to say that if he 'went out with me' he would just hurt me and mess up the friendship . To be fair he also did tell me he didn't want a committed relationship. I thought I was OK with it but then wasn't, hormones and chemicals have a lot to answer for.

As SGB said it's not compulsory to want a committed relationship but it's really hard to make sense of this when you get on so well with that person and want one with them. So painful but best off out of it, short burst of pain for long term gain.

more important than him
is that you don't habitually repeat same mistakes
learn your own triggers why do you pick men like this

Thanks Tressy

That's just it - after today's reflection I really am focusing on "short burst of pain for long term gain". It's been so helpful being able to talk this through and to get advice from so many people. It's been brilliant actually. I don't feel nearly so alone (knowing some of you have gone through the same/similar things). I feel lots better and dare I say it, almost positive .

stop making yourself available to and part of Fuckitted me
learn your own cues,triggers.avoid the bad stuff
date nice men,gave some uncomplicated fun