Man with extreme commitmentphobia - help desperately sought

[butterscotchbiscuit]

Hi there.

I'm a long time lurker but a new poster here and would be so grateful of any advice from Mumsnetters!

I've come here as I'm really at the end of my tether and quite desperate for help - I would love to hear if anyone has any advice to give me on my situation as I just don't know what to do...

I have been involved with a man for just over three years now. He is absolutely lovely - one of the kindest, most considerate and gentle men I have ever met. He's incredibly reliable and I trust him totally. (Should add that in couching him these terms, I'm not a babe in the woods - I'm 35 and since I was a teenager have had lots of long term relationships of 2, 4, 6 and 3 years' duration before him - so I do have lots to compare him to!)

So he's essentially perfect apart from one MAJOR flaw!

That flaw is that he has what I can only describe as extreme commitmentphobia. It's like commitmentphobia on steroids! Will give you a very brief summary of our relationship history (in bullet points!) so you have a brief idea of what's gone on (next post....).

if you're in turmoil,and there's emotional aggro why are you two together
your enduring relationship us supposed to be stable,safe,reliable,fun
all you get is aggro.maybe you like the drama?maybe he likes the drama

GentleLentilWeaver

Thanks a lot for all your advice. I have made a real effort to deepen existing friendships and make new ones and this has paid off because it means the love interest isn't my only source of support.

Yep - this is really key. As mentioned, I've been in this new city less than a year, and even though I told myself when I moved I would break away from him, I think it made me even more dependent on him as he kind of helped me 'settle' into the new city. I have to break away from that.

I have learned that grief is a strange beast and it isn't linear. It weaves and wanders and retraces upon itself and that's okay. Essentially you need a commitment to you to believe that all the sadness and pain is worth it, and to do that (because it does take so much self discipline) you have to see that they are causing you pain and will cause you pain forever unless you get out now and endure a short burst of misery in order to achieve long term happiness. You have to see the long view.

• What a great way of putting it...... And you are so RIGHT about needing to take the long term view, As you also said, it IS very drug-like too....not only because you are addicted in many ways to this person, but that like drugs, it feels good in the short term, but is doing bugger all for you in the long term.

I actually have a friend who's told me about Baggage Reclaim and what a good site it is. I did have a quick look once but had forgotten about it.....I'll definitely go back and delve deeper into it. It sounds really good. Especially the support she offers for 'no contact'! Thats' exactly what I need! (And as I said to jadebond007 - maybe we could use this thread for that!!! I'd feel shamed if I was still seeing him in a couple months' time!!)

I keep thinking of it like a drug. Which is exactly what it is. It's just chemicals and hormones.

In a funny way your situation makes me think of that of women who can't/won't leave because they are in emotionally abusive relationships. I'm not saying you are at all, but the similarity is that for these women the relationship has eroded self-confidence to such a degree that they genuinely start to believe that they are unworthy of being loved, and will not find even as much affection as they are currently getting elsewhere.

I mean, panic attacks because he's in a relationship with you? Fucking OUCH. Your very sweet instinct was to help him through, pity him, you're the strong one etc but you're really going to have to get back into the mindset of being strong and independent because you seem semi-passive now. I think it has worn you down.

I do know how you feel to a degree - I hung onto a guy who wasn't really that into me, it just wasn't right really. He never would have committed, it never fitted. We were on/off in a relationship, and being friends, and friends with benefits, and that thing of waking up in the middle of the night and feeling wrong and I left that time etc. That's because it was wrong. Nothing intrinsically wrong with either of us - he's a lovely guy, I'm alright too. We're happily married now. To other people.....

jadebond007 Familiar? Sounds spookily familiar!!! Right down to the feeling 'rescued' from all the rejection after splitting up the first time....

And oh the 'joy' when it happened it again, and we split up again...

stainesmassif said it's a case of he's just not that into you, but honestly, I know it must seem like that, but it is more f*cked up than that. (Trust me I know - I even read that book/saw the film!)

As with jadebond007 he says he loves me and is ridiculously attentive, as if it were a normal relationship. Before I went away for the month, he drove an hour and a half to come to my house on a school night to iron all my clothes for me and pack them into my suitcase. Not only that, he bought me a brand new steam iron for the job because he 'thought I needed one'. ...

(In fact, almost every single electrical item in my house was bought by him as he 'thought I needed one'....)

You can see why it's so heartbreaking to say goodbye to someone who's so caring... Of course - sometimes I think maybe he's buying me all this stuff because he feels guilty... He's one of those people who has a strong sense of responsibility about stuff, and I think it gets to him that he's doing this to me. He cries a lot too, whenever I get upset about it, and just does that thing where he says 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry'.

The product of an abusive childhood. He says he loves me still. As much as he can. But I know he doesn't feel the same way about me as I do about him. I know he doesn't have the same ache in his chest without me.

This sounds eerily familiar. I didn't want to go to much into his childhood as that's 'his stuff', but it was bad. He thinks that his problems with intimacy come with having built up walls around him when he was a child - to stop his dad from getting to him / bugging him. His dad isn't alive anymore either so I think there a lot of unresolved issues there. I didn't really want to go too deep on here about his own personal stuff, but seeing as this is all anonymous (!) - he had a nervous breakdown too after his dad died. Had to go and live at home again for three years to get over it.

So - as with jadebond007 - I guess the depths to which these guys' problems go is just unknowable.... They're pretty screwed up. But it's so hard to walk away when you've (had the misfortune to) fall in love with one of them!

There's also a good dollop of fantasy in there, that only if this one thing (his commitment phobia was fixed) he'd be the perfect guy. Really? He's made you waste your finest child-bearing years selfishly keeping you hanging around, but giving himself the perfect get out clause that he never promised you any different. This is not a man who is terribly nice, nor is it one who is terribly in love.

Sorry, but you are in love with the idea of being in love and idealising it all, and not in love with the actual real flaky not terribly emotionally stable individual in front of you.

Your counsellor was right, you just weren't ready to hear it.

you think you're saving this man
you like the drama,and feeling useful
expend your energies on a more appropriate relationship

izzyizin & StuckInTheFensAwayFromHome

You're both right about exercise. I actually joined a gym because of this guy - I think it kept me alive that first time we split up! I remember when it first happened I ran for 70 minutes (a long time for me!) on the treadmill and that one run seriously stopped me from just falling apart.

But team sports would obviously be even better socially, and I'm going to look into that. (As long as it's not hockey! ;-)

butterscotch- don't you see, if he didn't make the grand gesture, and buy you an iron (!), you'd see him for what he was, which is a commitment phobic guy who is not worth it and pissing you about. He's doing enough to keep you dangling, but not enough to actually properly care by being in a relationship and build a family with you.

He's also made you believe he's so deep and sensitive he doesn't have to behave like normal people! My husband had a shit childhood, so have lots of people, but ultimately do you want to be with someone who wants to be with you in the long-term or not?

Time to move on, and leave him (and the iron) behind.

nutellaontoast

You said for these women the relationship has eroded self-confidence to such a degree that they genuinely start to believe that they are unworthy of being loved, and will not find even as much affection as they are currently getting elsewhere. ...and also that it sounds like it's just ground me down.

Yeah - it has. I have just felt a bit ground down by it all.

Mumsyblouse - Yes, you're really right. My counsellor was right! It wasn't that I wasn't ready to hear her, it was more that she delivered the message in a kind of 'you have to leave' way, but without addressing the issue that I was struggling to do that. Like - I know that's what I had to do, but I went to her to maybe find the courage to do it. As someone else - a third party can't give someone else courage, and I suppose that's the problem. And as GentleLentilWeaver also said, going cold turkey is not supposed to be easy. It IS hard. I guess I was looking for a pill I could swallow that would make it all go away.

Mumsyblouse - don't you see, if he didn't make the grand gesture, and buy you an iron (!), you'd see him for what he was, which is a commitment phobic guy who is not worth it and pissing you about.

Yep - you're absolutely right. I actually really need to focus on that.... I don't think he's trying to manipulate me to keep me hanging on, but I DO think he's doing a lot of that stuff cos he feels guilty. So the end result is kind of the same. He's trying to sweeten the bitter pill he knows he's given me.

It's tough - because all that 'caring' is clouding my judgement and makes it harder to leave. So maybe he's trying to be kind, but it isn't kind - cos it's keeping me here. And 'here' sucks.

Sorry, it really is that simple. If he were more into you, he'd do something about it. You're over romanticising him.

stainesmassif I totally see what you're saying. I absolutely see what you're saying, in fact!

But the thing is it is a weird scenario - he downloaded all those MP3s about "Letting Love In" and "Building Intimacy" - he has a weird problem that it seems some men have but is not your usual 'lack of interest thing'. He went to a hypnotherapist about it. This is the guy who has cried and cried, rocking back and forth, saying he loves me but can't cope with the panic attacks and has to breathe into a brown paper bag!

So it's not the usual 'he's just not that into you' thing..... Although I perfectly understand why you would say that.

But my hope is not to try and change him as he won't. I knew that a long time ago, sadly. I really just wanted advice on how to leave a man like this when you love them - when whatever the reason is for his inability to commit, it's not going to change and you need to leave.

That's what I've ben struggling with. I've got some good advice on here though. It's basically like ripping a plaster. It just hurts.

I don't agree with people who say he isn't that much into you. This guy, for whatever reason, really has a problem with commitment and it really sets him into a panic (Panic attack ARE bad. The fact that he has so clear physical symptoms of his anxiety tells me it is just that anxiety. Not the type of guy who has cold feet and wants it all).

The issue then is what about you?
Do you have children? Would you want children with him? If yes, this is obviously a No Go for you.
Forgetting abut what other do and don't and what a relationship is supposed to be like, are you happy with the way your relationship is? Are you happy to live apart? Or do you want/dream to be living together?
What do you expect from a relationship?
What seem to be OK for this guy is a living together apart scenario. This can be a nice place to be in IF you are happy about it and do not see committed relationship=living together.

TBH I see a guy who loves you but is absolutely convinced he isn't good enough for you, that he will only hurt you if he is living with you/are in an official relationship with you (Note not when he is in a relationship because he is atm and he is obviously reliable, caring etc...).
The issue is more about whether you can/want to drop all our society expectations as to what is a relationship to develop something else. Which can be just as good but different.
Note: I am not sure why you felt for example the need to explain 'the thing' to your boss. Would a 'Oh can I bring X to the party?' not be enough?

scottishmummy maybe he likes the drama

Actually, he's the opposite. Because of watching his parents scream at each other, he hates conflict. We almost never argue. I quickly learned that he can't handle any kind of conflict. When we would occasionally argue, he wouldn't be able to eat for hours afterward! He must be like the most sensitive person ever. I'm a 'get it out in the open type of person' so it was totally alien to me, actually. But in keeping with his 'can't cope with several aspects of normal life' thing. I don't totally romanticise him y'see

Apologies if I sound callous. But remembering that it's not about you really helps you to walk away. (You have to be ready.) But your description of him is extremely romantic and I'm doubtful that he's as amazing, sensitive or considerate as you currently perceive him to be. Changing your perception of him will make it easier to leave, and realising that he HAS the power to change should help you change that perception.
As others have said, work more on yourself and take the focus off him. Best of luck.

If he won't go for therapy then IMO you don't stand a chance as a couple. he needs appropriate support and help, which he cannot get from you (sorry).

I struggle with intimacy and my relationships generally deteriorate as I can't work out what I want so start the push/pull cycle. I've been in therapy for 2 years now and I still can't see a happy ending, regardless of how much I 'think' I want it.

from what youve written, I'd say you are better off making decisions purely about yourself and your own needs/hopes for the future.

you KNOW it's going to be painful ending it. it was be shit and no you won't sleep for a while. but all that is short term pain for long term gain. cut the cord.

drama isn't necessarily histrionics
drama is you and him in emotional turmoil
and you're both enacting roles

I feel for this guy actually. His life must be really hard if he is that sensitive....

Which, OP doesn't mean you should stay with him by any mean!

meant to say even if he did go for therapy, then you're probably looking at years anyway before he gets anywhere. do you really want to give him more of your precious time?

Here's a suggestion on how you can see things differently that may help you with leaving him: When you truly, deeply love someone, then you want what is best for them, even if that means you have to let them go. If he was truly that great a guy, then he would let you go and be free to find love with someone that can offer you a relationship and a family. Actually he's being very selfish, because he's letting you use him as a 'crutch', allowing himself to enjoy himself with you without committing to you, instead of being a strong man and doing what is best for you.

When you are feeling weak and want that contact with him - he's actually really letting you down...

EscapeInThePark Yes - this is the thing. His symptoms have anxiety written all over them. They're kind of textbook! Whenever we get back together he literally wakes up in a pool of sweat, and I have to calm him down!

(As someone above said - OUCH! Nice to know that I can bring someone out in a panic attack... It try not to take it personally)

I don't have children, and yes, I do want children, and at 35, now is not the time to be wasting any more months with this man. I do know that and that's why I'm looking for advice on how to just LEAVE HIM. Cos that's what I want to do, but it's just been hard.

Someone earlier mentioned about was I happy having an unconventional relationship....it's a damn good question and I concluded that I wasn't.

I admit I am not the most radical of people and inspite of thinking I'm a good feminist, I do yearn to 'settle down' and have kids and be married (or at least long term partnered up). God knows why - but for some reason I have that desire imprinted somewhere deep in my psyche.

So I wrangled with this - is all that social conformity really necessary?

The fact that I felt the need to explain it to my boss was because the invitation said 'partners welcome'. Well - it's a new job, but she must've known I didn't have a partner as I'd never mentioned one. But her party was near his town, and i'd be staying at his obviously, and he'd be driving me there, so..... But yeah. I probably didn't need to go into it. I think I described him as 'It's my ex-boyfriend and it's a bit weird', that's all. But I think I do crave social acceptance, and that's a part of that.

I don't know why I do. I've just come back from a month working in one of those countries where the first question people ask you is whether you're married and have kids. It was okay fending off the questions when I was in my 20s. Now I'm 35 it actually feels kind of shaming..... A bit 'No, I'm not married; no, I don't have kids', and as a certain Ms B. Jones almost said: 'And please excuse the scales I'm shedding on the floor'......

So yes - in answer to your question, I think I do hate feeling outcast from 'socially approved' relationships. And so the relationship-in-all-but-name he gives me is not enough. If I was older - I think it would be okay.

I'm wearing the same specs as Mumsy you are in love with the idea of being in love and idealising it all, and not in love with the actual real flaky not terribly emotionally stable individual in front of you and I'm beginning to form the view that you like the drama of what is, effectively, unrequited love.

This man can't give you what you want so why are you hanging around him when you could be loved up with a man who doesn't have his hang-ups? Is it you that's got the commitment phobia?

As there song says, there must be 50 ways to leave your lover but I always favour the door marked 'exit' and I firmly close it behind me.

Btw, forget about team sports. You need a solo sport such as fencing which will focus your mind in the moment and stop you obsessing wearing grooves in your brain through playing the same old record over and over to a point where you refuse to can't think about anything else.

It sounds so difficult butterscotch

I don't have any personal experience with a man like this, but I did watch a good friend go through something similar for years and years. Reading your posts was like being back in a room with her listening to her break her heart about him

She spent all of her thirties this way. He was lovely in all other ways but wouldn't commit and said that he simply couldn't commit, she couldnt let him go

Long story short she is now in her forties, childless (but not through choice) and with a new partner who adores her. She regrets bitterly the wasted years but accepts that they were of her own making

He after decades of shying away from commitment and putting her through hell met a woman twenty years younger than himself and married her within months, they have three children.That was the bit that hurt my friend the most. He was adamant that it was not about her, that he loved her but he wasn't capable of commitment, but in the end she was the only one who missed out