Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Would anyone mind if I joined you over here? I'm not quite sure whether or not I belong here yet, but just lurking without posting made me feel a bit like I'm spying on other people's misery
I'm a bit lost if I'm honest.

Hello scented Welcome, lurk away if you feel you need to (I know I did) and :( you feel you need to look in.
Check out the links at the top of the thread.
Particularly Lundy (you can read an extract of 'Should I stay or should I go' on Amazon.
Post when you feel ready.

Thanks arthritic
I've read through the links, and found myself nodding to far more than I'd like to. The problem is, I know if I ever showed him the lists (I wouldn't, but if) he'd say that I do them all too.
I don't think I do, but maybe I'm just as bad? I don't know, it's so hard to separate the truth from what's been twisted sometimes. I feel like I'm walking on permanent eggshells because he's so 'tired'.

Fool- you're installing confidence in me, thankyou x. I will take the advice given, I will try my very best to hold it together, bite my lip and see what happens. I will keep a diary of the things he says/ does and go from there. I feel so much better knowing I'm not the only one. The links provided have proved it's not in my head and that I'm suffering along with many other women. I hope we all find a happy ending. Being able to talk to people who understand has given me the strength to tackle this either with or without him. I will keep you updated :-) x

Arthritic- I know exactly how you feel. I told my husband he is emotionally abusive towards me, he just twisted everything and told me I am a mental case and need to see a doctor. They will never admit it!

Sorry, that was meant for scented not arthritic, sorry again x

scented and tamara 'Should I stay or should I go' is available from amazon either to order or for kindle.
It is for you not for them - if you show it to them you will only get mindfucks back.
You can read the introduction for free online

bertie an honour to be mistaken for the inimitable Izzy!

Beverly Engel wrote the emotionally abusive relationship from the POV that by the time one had been in an abusive relationship for a while it corrupts the way a previously "normal" person behaves. Some may find that they themselves react and act in abusive ways. I have found some people find her book more useful for unpicking that sort of relationship muddle even than St Lundy.

The point that acting in abusive way can be spotted and the person can engage and change their behaviour is the key in her book...she even has examples of mutually abusive relationships where both have undertaken the hard work to change and managed to stay together, successfully and non-abusively

It is not usually helpful to give primary abusers information about EA...they invariably use that information and twist it to throw it back in your face. My advice would be to become knowledgeable and empowered and then to consider a measured and limited sharing only if you feel he may be able to see and understand or if it is time for a real ultimatum.

onesix and again we say...the thread is here for you....you deserve it, you need it and you do not have to "give" anything to anyone to come along and get support.....

it must be frightful to be waiting for the next big alcohol fuelled horror...sending lots of positive energy and thoughts and strength to you. Do you have a plan of somewhere to go if he kicks off? Will you be calling the police if he misbehaves? Will you be keeping your phone charged and on you at all times? Will you feel free to keep the doors locked if he comes back in a state and is unsuitable to be around young children? Any/all of these would be appropriate for you.

onesixonetwo - that's really difficult, when no-one understands that you feel differently about weekends and why. Thinking of you. Have a and some [choc] :)

Ha! Just x-posted, cos I didn't want the post to go unnoticed.

But fool beat me to it with her usual wisdom. :)

but I forgot the [choc]...:(

and that is, of course, the most necessary item in out MN arsenal!

Arthritic- thankyou I will order that book.

Fool- I 'knowledgable' great idea

Thank you for letting me be selfish.
My phone is always charged, in an emergency I will ring the Police and if I need to get out there are a few places to go (with my DD).

I am 'safe' just feeling down about it all.
So thank you for listening, I appreciate it so much.

onesix another one over here thinking of you with support and [choc] with the weekend coming up. I am glad you are safe, but naturally you feel down about it all, it's an awful thing to be facing week after week. You poor love.

Fool your comments are so wise and I feel so lucky to have found your thread.

Evening folks and hi Tamara

It is not uncommon for those of us desperate after years of torment to behave badly. The fact we question our behaviour, feels guilty and ashamed, and change how we act, marks us as non abusers.

I was being a horrid person in my marriage. I was so angry and resentful I had become shrewish and nasty to my FWH. I woke up from years of denial when I had a short and passionate affair. I could not understand myself. I acted in a way against all my values and beliefs. I went to counselling for two years. I acknowledged my faults and heartily repented them. I realised my FWH came from an abusive and dysfunctional family. And finally the penny dropped and I saw the mindfucking and spaghetti head mess he induced in me as abuse.

I got away and recovered. And guess what? I am a patient and kind person who is calm and helpful to everybody. All that angry behaviour was a response to being treated inconsiderately, put second by a selfish man, and hurt in tiny ways year in year out.

Just observe for now Tamara and detach yourself. Post here and we will help you spot the patterns. You can make things better.

Good morning everyone, I hope the wind isn't keeping you awake (or anything else). I would like to ask if you would be upset by what my P said tonight. I have no ability any more to measure "reasonableness" ( is that a word?).

I feel like an idiot. Falling for the same old rot time and again. We've had the 3 weeks nice and have now entered the 1 week nasty. I know that sounds odd, he is. Thing is I'm just trying to keep things calm while i sort my life out. It started on Saturday with a drunken rant at me (mostly pure rubbish, some aimed at my mum). God knows why but I decided to leave it and tried talking, and he started behaving. We have not had sex for ages I thought maybe we could try so "prepared" (lol - sorry made an effort you know) and tried to look nice. Tonight, gets back from meeting at cricket (not work - fun stuff) in a foul mood, prob had drink/s (not sure) and started picking, little subtle picks, but criticising. I don't even know what the rant was, but one started in the end and when he said that "The problem is I have trained your brain to be scared of me." I got really upset. Didn't apologise, is downstairs in tears on sofa tonight. Hasn't spoken to me and has been crying I think.

I found that particular comment really worrying and very hurtful. I feel sick. Whatever I do he can never manage it and anything I do to stand up for myself is perceived as "aggression" or related to my mental health issues (which he caused).
How would you feel if that comment had been directed at you? I'd be really grateful to ask all something else as well. Do you find your nsdp behaviour worsens after a particularly positive event for you? I was in a great mood and was actually looking forward to seeing him and feeling fairly sexy (both rare). I'd cooked tea, kids sorted, cool tunes on and even sorted a lift to cricket for him. and he came in like a cloud and squished my heart. I feel utterly sad because I love him so much, even now and only want us to be happy. Even I can see that that is probably not up to me.
Sorry to go on.

Couldn't post in detail last night but he got drunk and was nasty.
When I eventually persuaded him to come to bed - I don't like to leave him downstairs on his own as he can be dangerous ie falling asleep while smoking, leaving one of the rings of the hob on etc - at about 1am I was so furious I started shouting back!

This morning I have told him that he is not to drink this weekend, we have an agreement that he will only drink 1 night a week.
He has agreed and he says he's going to AA tonight.

I know it's bad but I feel better for shouting back. We are going to counselling on Tuesday and I am planning what to say.

daisee 'I have trained your brain' is an awful thing to say.
You asked how people would feel? I would feel devastated. That is horrible.
I don't know your situation but this is evidence of calculated manipulation on his part, do you have a plan to leave?

Here is a link to Beverly Engel on Amazon. The introduction can be read on line.
www.amazon.co.uk/Emotionally-Abusive-Relationship-Abused-Abusing/dp/0471454036/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347610957&sr=1-4
I want to get some of her other books, too ...
I don't think my behaviour ever mirrored the abusive behaviour of FWEX - I pretty much stopped doing much of anything at all :( But, I have no difficulty seeing that, when one's existence has become so distorted, trying to be assertive can end up becoming mimicking the abuse we have endured

Here, also, is something from St. Lundy's blog for today's reading
lundybancroft.blogspot.com
You may feel quite shaken up in your view of the human race. Any woman who suffers serious mistreatment from a partner she had loved and trusted struggles with feelings of betrayal. And betrayal can knock you off your foundation at a core level, so that:

· the world starts to feel like an unsafe place.
· everyone?s motives start to be suspect
· you start to question your sense of what is real

        If your partner were terrible all the time, it would actually be easier to deal with in many ways; you would tell yourself, ?Well, he turned out to be a jerk.? But when someone you love goes back and forth between kindness and cruelty, generosity and selfishness, tenderness and intimidation, loving you and cheating on you, you can come to feel that it?s impossible to understand people. Your feelings for the primary person in your life tend to carry over into how you view everyone.

          Your partner may further feed the problem by encouraging you to think badly of others. He may tell you that people are lying to you or taking advantage of you; that your friends have hidden motives; that you are naïve in your dealings with people; that ?everyone is just out for themselves.? He?s talking about himself, though he probably doesn?t know it. 

          And yes, there are sharks out there. But the world is also full of so many thoughtful, caring, honest individuals. Most people don?t use other people, or trick them, or threaten them. In fact, most people are doing their best to live ethical lives and to be decent and responsible for other people.

          So don?t let your partner (or ex-partner) distort your outlook on your species. Look for the good in people, and notice their efforts to make human connection. Be smart, yes, but don?t harden your heart. You will find many gems in the human race.

?I will stay open to people and give them a chance. I?m keeping my heart alive.?

Hi one six, I have no plan. All I am trying to do is make sure I try and sort debts. I have many times nearly done it. I tried to make him see how his words cut. All that seems to have done is given him an excuse to sleep on the sofa. Worst thing was he wept after.

Onesix, so sorry to hear your FW got nasty again. How are you feeling? At least you have the counselling to get you through the next few days.

daisee, sorry to hear your story, I can imagine your head is reeling right now with everything, especially if he is trying to make you feel guilty with his apparent teary repentance. Try and stay strong, detach, and see how he's behaving underneath it all.

Another horrible end to my eve with NSDH last night. We had a brilliant evening, after having a shaky week (following on from his intimidating behaviour at the weekend, sorry I mean following on from me being awful again, since that's what history has been rewritten as). Lovely dinner, a film, a laugh. Went to bed, could tell he wanted things to happen. I've been feeling funny about intimacy after the weekend, am ok with cuddling but have struggled to kiss properly and he's noticed this. I said to him again that I didn't want to do anything cos I had my period (true, but also a good get-out excuse), and I just wanted to cuddle. He was v unhappy, said I was out of order (as usual...), that I was making it up about having a period, etc. I tried to talk to him about having my needs met, but all he kept seeing it as was me 'starting again' and ruining our lovely evening - not that he ruined it by being a FW and not just cuddling me like I wanted. Lots of unpleasantness, apparently I really, really need to see a professional (errrrr, I am!), I'm mad, I'm losing it, etc, etc, and if I don't do something positive to sort it all out (ie cuddle him), then it's all over. And the weak, weak idiot I am, I did.

While all that was going on, DS2 woke multiple times, which I mostly dealt with calmly - NSDH got up to him once, ended up coming up of his room muttering 'just fucking greet then', and then went back in but came out seconds later and just closed the door right over. I went in and quietened him down. I don't say this to demonstrate my amazing parenting skills over his, but the fact that even the baby was apparently being unreasonable and 'what the fuck is wrong with him?' is his approach rather than anything that shows a caring attitude, which just made the baby cry even more but he could happily close the door and walk off.

This morning he wanted to know what I was doing tomorrow, since I normally go up to the house and spend the weekend there. Really, really don't want to. Said so. But have been talked bullied into saying I'll go up because he just went on and on and on about it, how I was out of order, mental, not making an effort to save our relationship, till I couldn't take it anymore and I just caved. I did ask him if it could be a dry house for the weekend, he refused immediately. I do think he has a bit of a drinking problem in all this - he says he wants to be able to have a couple of glasses of wine, but I know he'll just start drinking at lunchtime as he usually does. I have said I'll be drinking nothing and I need to stick to that, if for no other reason than so I can feel good about sticking to it because I feel completely spineless and worthless at the moment.

So another weekend of doing the same stuff and probably getting the same outcome for me. I've been looking up info on co-dependency, and it's all ringing true. Anyone know much about it? I think that's why I can't break away despite the obvious problems, so I'll speak to my counsellor about it next week.

Oh ponygirl it doesn't sound v good does it? You are giving in time and time again instead of putting what you want first. I know you know this, and I know how hard it is. Somehow, though, you are going to have to find the ability to stick to your guns. We have the right to change our minds, but this is him changing your mind for you. If you can't say what you want without him overriding it, then he is not changing.