Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

(no, I think I read your sentence as you meant it, trying, and thanks again!)

G'night! Hula Hoops and cuppa at this end, nice and healthy

Ponygirl - just wanted to say thanks for your message upthread - you're right, I do need to avoid the twitter bollix, unsubscribe from it and all that. Otherwise it's no better than self-flagellation. This was my first long-term relationship (well, longer than six months anyway) and I suppose I am just gutted that he turned out to be such a shit.

My workmate said it would be easier to move on if I didn't still fancy him, and she's right. If the sight of him was physically repulsive then it'd be fine. Perhaps it's time to look at the photos I've got of him that did him no favours whatsoever!!

Wanted to send you some too, and maybe some or a if that's more your thing. Hope you're doing OK despite his latest bout of utterfuckwittery. x

I feel there should be a chocolate emoticon; I did a quick search (I'm a saddo) and found there's been deep discussion on that subject but basically they haven't done one - yet it's surely pretty much a must for this site (and this thread), isn't it?? Anyway I like this one too so as it's last thing at night, thought I'd throw it in instead of the missing [choc]

Omg, yes to cheese and chocolate, there really needs to be a chocolate smilie!

fool oooh I've planned on getting a dog, but may have to get a cat to now you've mentioned it! Nsdh hates cats as well, but I like them.

Remembered something else as well as the weather is getting chillyer, nsdh makes such a fuss over me putting the heat on, its crazy, so I either end up being cold or made to feel.awfully guilty.

I find it so much harder when he's being all nice, wish he was being nasty as at least then it keeps my head clear. He's all into holding hands again and I find it suffocating, I hate it, I actually hate holding his hand or kissing him... I guess that proves we need to separate, but I feel like a evil bitch for being the one to end it, I wish he would. I feel so sad for our dd (almost 2), I feel sad for him and I feel so sad that we used to be so in love, best friends and now its ended up like this.

Good points regarding the choc smilie hilde

It's weird the more I read and talk on here the similarities I see between nsdh and other peoples nsdh. It helps me feel that I'm not going mad, or over reacting.

Oh also what does fw mean?

Ex and DD liked it too hot for me, and I am now needing to watch the pennies, so am glad to have heating off lower!

Funny how when our money was joint, Ex had his car serviced at main dealer, this year he went to a little local garage.

I like the house colder than NSDH, too, Silver. Glad you said that, as what with that and not liking pets (NSDH would love a cat), I was starting to worry that I sounded more like the FWs on this thread! :o

ponygirl - that's our big problem, isn't it? We try to talk reasonably with them, and expect them to understand sense. Then when they don't, we start believing them rather than ourselves. He was deflecting the focus away from him and putting the blame on you. Ridiculous. Still find it easier to see in other people's lives than my own, though...

I am a cold person (temperature-wise), always have been, feel cold a lot, but even so I'd try and sit in the house during the day with jumpers on instead of putting on the heating so we didn't waste money. Then NSDH would come in and turn the fire on (while having the patio doors open in the same room).

wellies, you're exactly right. We are busy with reasonableness, because that's what's...well...reasonable! But they aren't dealing in reason, it's a fight to win power or control so reason has no place, we automatically 'lose' if we use reason because they wont hesitate to say black is white if it gets them what they want.

Talked a lot to my counsellor about this earlier, and about how I just want him to acknowledge that how he behaved on Saturday was wrong, rather than making it all my fault (which I end up believing in some way). I know it's deflection. Counsellor suggested I try and take a break from what we're doing because I'm not in safe emotionally or physically with him right now, just to try and get my head straight, but not sure how I do that, because I'm scared of what he'll say and how he'll react!

I totally agree, it's so much easier dealing with other people's lives than my own!!

Hilde I nearly choked on my lunch at your [choc] comments .

Pony from the outside what your counsellor said sounds good, because he's still abusing, but I'm in the same position of knowing what I need to say but not being able to because of the bully wall I'm up against, I feel small and powerless and like there's no point trying to get through it because I can't.

V interesting re the heating/pet controlling stuff. My FW was like that and I have a blog entry (private, recoirding of incidents blog) starting with "I'm wrapped in a blanket, socks and two jumpers, waiting till FW goes to bed so I can switch the heating on for a few mins and take the chill off..." I think to myself, I'm a grown woman, mother, earn my own money, wtf is going on in my life?

PS Just realised I wrote "my FW WAS" - obviously my mind's moved on even if FW hasn't yet

I second the [choc] emoticon!

pony same here with the turning things around....FWSTBXH recently told me that I'm intimidating and he's scared to be around me (bear in mind I'm a timid thing, under 60kg, never swear & he's 6'3", a gym freak, and never short of a word or two).

Maybe it's the MN aura that now surrounds me like a glow that he's afraid of

I'm now picturing you like with a ready brek-style glow, channelling the grrrrrs of all your fellow MNers like a power ranger. Hiiiiiiii-ya! If only he genuinely were intimidated by you, bertie!! You might be able to scare him out of the house a bit quicker. I have also been told I'm intimidating. I'm 5ft 2 to his 6ft 1. I barely come up to his nipples. As t'were.

Hi all, so had big bust up with husband. Told him how I feel and that he treats me badly. He laughed in my face! Told me I'm a loser ( 12 hours later tried to tell me that was a joke) his usual 'get out free card'. He told me I should appreciate him more. We then exchanged messages. Would like some advice from anyone to tell me if you think i may be being unreasonable? The texts exchanged are displayed below:

Husband: Only you can stop urself getting stressed.. Everyday ..... For gods sake... Etc was what I was saying, you cannot hide from ur own conscience, putting phone down doesn't help, oh well at least I can tell my kids I tried all I could even when it was the last thing I wanted too. Sick of teenage attitude

Me: I can't talk to you anymore! You are so patronising! Basically Trying to tell me I'm a mental case. 'emotional abuse' !!! You make me depressed, stressed, sad, lonely, timid.. YOU!!! The sooner you're out of my life the better!!!!

Husband: Never said ur mental you just act it and as usual ur perfect and im the problem, isn't being nasty cold abusive rude and obnoxious every day whilst I'm working, false promises of opening up ur heart emotional abuse?????
Remind me why I'm laying in a truck with 5 hrs before I start work again???

Me:Your choice!

Husband:Always be in ur life ... We have 2 children together

Me: Unlucky for me! Shit happens!

Husband: Not at all not my choice I'm the only one who brings money into the house to power tv, ur unlucky????? Sat at home watching our kids grow up while they resent me for working every hour god sends!!!

Me: No!! Unlucky for me I still have to see you cos of the kids.

Husband: And this is me being horrible to you is it talk about pot kettle!

Me: Oh what?? You expect me to be nice after accusing me of being mental. Sorry master I shall obey you! Just leave me alone now, you make me stressed!

Husband: Your not mental you just twist my words to massage ur drama queen ego! That's not what I meant and u know it! Looking forward to telling kids when they're older their parents split up bcos mum was a drama Queen ice hearted tv addict!

Me: There you go again. Blame me for everything. Good luck in your new life x

Husband: Boo hoo go away I'm trying to sleep some of us have to work 24hrs a day to feed their family.

Just read all the messages again. Like we're all married to the same person. I'm so so unhappy right now :-(

Hi Tamara
well the exchange does not really paint either of you in a good light to be honest! I think being sucked into tit for tat exchanges will only wear you down and make you both unreasonable.

Told him how I feel and that he treats me badly. You are entitled to tell him this and to feel this.

He laughed in my face! Told me I'm a loser ( 12 hours later tried to tell me that was a joke) this is abusive it dismisses your feelings and belittles you. The joke thing is standard for all FWs.

It is however true that you are the only one who can find a way to stop being stressed (maybe removing yourself from the stressful situation). When you say this "I can't talk to you anymore! You are so patronising! Basically Trying to tell me I'm a mental case. 'emotional abuse' !!! You make me depressed, stressed, sad, lonely, timid.. YOU!!! The sooner you're out of my life the better!!!! You are both handing him ammunition to use against you and accusing him directly. This is very confrontational and unlikely to get you anywhere even with a normal relationship. The threat to leave could be seen as emotional blackmail.

Husband: Never said ur mental you just act it and as usual ur perfect and im the problem, isn't being nasty cold abusive rude and obnoxious every day whilst I'm working, false promises of opening up ur heart emotional abuse????
Remind me why I'm laying in a truck with 5 hrs before I start work again??? tit for tat accusations and heated exchange

Me:Your choice! Really?? his choice to work, or a real need to provide for himself and the family

Husband:Always be in ur life ... We have 2 children together true

Me: Unlucky for me! Shit happens! abusive.

Husband: Not at all not my choice I'm the only one who brings money into the house to power tv, ur unlucky????? Sat at home watching our kids grow up while they resent me for working every hour god sends!!! abusive not valuing you as worker in the home and co-parent

Me: No!! Unlucky for me I still have to see you cos of the kids. abusive

Husband: And this is me being horrible to you is it talk about pot kettle! true

Me: Oh what?? You expect me to be nice after accusing me of being mental. Sorry master I shall obey you! Just leave me alone now, you make me stressed! I can't see where he accused you of being mental?

Husband: Your not mental you just twist my words to massage ur drama queen ego! That's not what I meant and u know it! Looking forward to telling kids when they're older their parents split up bcos mum was a drama Queen ice hearted tv addict! abusive name calling and emotional blackmail

Me: There you go again. Blame me for everything. Good luck in your new life x and again with the threats

He may well be emotionally abusive and you need to consider where your relationship is going but the exchange above is unreasonable, heated and abusive on both your parts. If you want to know what he is really like you are going to need to take hold of the moral high ground and step back from you emotions for a bit to assess what is really going on. EA or just a relationship that is not working.

Hi fool, thankyou for the reply> looking back at the messages we sound like a couple of teenagers. He just really frustrates me when he refuses to listen or care for my feelings. It was in the conversation before the messages when he told me ' i'm a mental case'. Maybe he isn't so bad, maybe i am half his problem. Maybe we both feel frustrated and are so angry we cant find it within to reason and listen to one another. Perhaps he isn't so abusive after all.

tamara..what do you make of the links at the top of the thread.

BTW I am absolutely NOT judging you as a person, just saying that that particular exchange was equal. At the end of my tether in a definitely EA relationship I hit my partner...not something I am proud of and not something that I can blame him for. MY fault but that did not make me an habitual abuser.

The big picture matters more when you are working out what to do. Even if he is not EA your relationship is clearly dysfunctional and you would need to consider what and whether to do anything either to end it or to try to repair it (but you can only do this with both of you on board)

Hi Fool, I have looked at a lot of the links. EA heartfelt description is like reading my relationship. I cried when reading it. I have always been honest and say what I think without thinking. I probably make some of the situations worse. Everytime we try to talk we end up in a massive argument which ends with me in tears ( frustrated with not bring heard ) and him proud he has won (again). I think we should both consider counselling. We both came from broken family's and promised ourselves we would never do the same to our children. I would love if things could change.

We all make the situation worse, try standing back a bit and writing down what you see/hear for a little while. If you manage to take yourself out of the equation, stop trying to fix it and try (very difficult) to observe...what happens?

You need to know the diagnosis before you can see where to take the problems. But individual counselling for you will certainly help you to deal with things (and him). If he needs to change you can't make him though, only he can decide to do that.

izzy great advice (as always)

Tamara I think I have (on occasion) retaliated in an EA way. Just through the shear frustration of being continually criticised, sworn at, and generally put down. I once even threw a toy car at him which is nothing compared to what he's done to me but I still feel bad about it

However I recognise that behaviour in myself and have fully admitted it. He has not and will not do that.

That is the difference....

You are starting to recognise your own behaviour and how it might be wrong...is your H doing the same?

So sorry just posted izzy instead of fool

Take me out and shoot me now...

I know I am being selfish by not responding to other posters, in RL I'm not selfish at all.
I hope it's ok if I just let go for a minute?

It's nearly the weekend which is a good thing for most people but I dread my weekends because that's when he drinks.

I'm just feeling really down today. Sorry.